The easy way to spot a false grace message

[Ahwatukee]

He that commits sin is of the devil; AKJV
He that commits sin is of the devil KJ 2000
He that commits sin is of the devil JB 2000

How can someone have shame, when the facts are wrong.
It is just a rash jumping to conclusions over a miss-interpretation of
what is going on.

Now where is the integrity in that, back firing again I think
(Yet another attempt at slander and smear)

Hello PeterJens,

There is a difference between willfully living according to the sinful nature vs. the sins we commit while we are walking in Christ. The scripture that you are describing above is in regards to the person who is not resisting the sinful nature, but is willfully giving into it, living in the same way that they did prior to coming to Christ. The true believer in Christ is fighting against that sinful nature, but is still has sin, because of that sinful nature. The two are contrary to one another, the flesh warring against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh. The following means exactly what it is saying regardless of how anyone wants to twist its meaning:

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[Stephen63]

Matthew 11:18-19

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.


You can't possibly know the heart of Martin Luther .. or how many beers he drank. You judge much.

I never said Luther drank too much. Where did you read that?

As far as those scriptures go..... that's what they ACCUSED Jesus of doing. That's NOT what He actually did. "and they say" is a quote from the Scribes & pharisees..... & they were liars, among other things.

 

[Stephen63]

You just did it again. And you call me the liar.

PennEd said Grace was being discussed. Immediately you start replacing this with "hyper" grace. Why? Because you just don't like Grace.

PennEd said grace was being discussed. Grace was NOT being discussed.

You twisted my words right in front of me. I said hyper-grace..... you said grace..... the I called you a liar because you are.

Just how many times will you twist my words & hear me say that before you figure that out?

Are you gonna keep baiting me so that you & your pack can turn me in?

I didn't make you guys what you are..... you did that on your own.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

He that commits sin is of the devil; AKJV
He that commits sin is of the devil KJ 2000
He that commits sin is of the devil JB 2000

How can someone have shame, when the facts are wrong.
It is just a rash jumping to conclusions over a miss-interpretation of
what is going on.

Now where is the integrity in that, back firing again I think
(Yet another attempt at slander and smear)

Maybe it's because I did not speak it in the ye old English of the KJV....
1 John 3:8 (KJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil;

Some people try sooooo hard to condemn, but yet another fail.

 

[plainguy]

Luther brewed his own beer so he didn't have to buy it..... or keep from getting caught in the pubs.

I never said Luther drank too much. Where did you read that?

As far as those scriptures go..... that's what they ACCUSED Jesus of doing. That's NOT what He actually did. "and they say" is a quote from the Scribes & pharisees..... & they were liars, among other things.

No, you didn't say Luther drank too much. You just insinuated a judgement of his intention for home brewing. This falls into the gossip and slander drawer. Read the following verse again. John came neither eating nor drinking ... the Son of Man did. And the hypocrites found fault in both. That's the point and meaning of that verse.


Matthew 11:18-19

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.



Do you suppose that John came neither eating nor drinking water .. or goats milk .. or whatever else they had back then ? Or was it a reference to wine ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe it's because I did not speak it in the ye old English of the KJV....
1 John 3:8 (KJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil;

Some people try sooooo hard to condemn, but yet another fail.

so lets get this straight so no one can misinterret you.

According to this. You believe anyone who commits one sin is of the devil? 2 sins? 3? Maybe 4? Or what??

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Ergo, free from the consequences of sin, not free from sin itself. The true believer has two natures, the old man/sinful nature and the new man in Christ

Nope, like I already showed by multitudes of scripture when you are born again of the Spirit the old things pass away, all things are become new.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Of course, if you guys are still in Adam, then you will still be struggling with sin. If this is the case, and you have not fallen away, then you can still be born again in the future, so it's not hopeless.

 

[Stephen63]

No, you didn't say Luther drank too much. You just insinuated a judgement of his intention for home brewing. This falls into the gossip and slander drawer. Read the following verse again. John came neither eating nor drinking ... the Son of Man did. And the hypocrites found fault in both. That's the point and meaning of that verse.


Matthew 11:18-19

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.



Do you suppose that John came neither eating nor drinking water .. or goats milk .. or whatever else they had back then ? Or was it a reference to wine ?

This is great..... you have an ability to catch insinuations..... except if you caught every one in this thread alone, you'd be up to your eyeballs with busy.

Why again did you pick me out? Am I that much prettier?

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Willie-T

You're 54, and you sin quite a bit. We all see much of it right here on this forum. What are you going to say at 64, when you are still doing it? And then, maybe at 74?

THIS is what we try so hard to get new Christians to understand...... That the deluded idea that they are not saved because they — just like you and the rest of us — will still be sinning if we live to be a hundred...... is a mindset infected with the enemy's lies. This is designed to keep you thinking that it is hopeless.... That if you cannot make yourself totally sinless, you are not good enough for God.

And, most of all, we do not want to see some young Christian trying to follow your example, and fool themselves into thinking (actually, just 'claiming') that they are without sin occurring in their lives.

What you say is so true.
And then some folks wonder why new believers become discouraged and just quite trying.

I agree.....

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious Christian life and this sinless perfection in the flesh doctrines that was being preached to them. They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church because they just couldn't live the life that was trying to be "forced" on them.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The false gospel believers of works for salvation kept preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

 

[Grace777x70]

Thanks for the example of the false doctrines of the Devil. The Devil wants you believe you will always be his servant. He who commits sins is of the Devil ...1 John 3:8

Let's test out your "application" of this verse. So, when you sin and we all know that you do as well as everyone else if they were honest - do you become "of the Devil?"

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So, when you sin and we all know that you do

That's what I keep hearing from mine accusers.

 

[Grace777x70]

That's what I keep hearing from mine accusers.

Why not just be honest with us? I told you I will not call you a liar or a hypocrite.

Please - no one call him a name if he becomes honest with us.

This way we can test out the "application" of the scripture that was posted with the comments attached to it.


Let's test out your "application" of this verse. So, when you sin and we all know that you do as well as everyone else if they were honest - do you become "of the Devil?"

When you sin - do you change from being a child of God to being a child of the Devil?

 

[plainguy]

This is great..... you have an ability to catch insinuations..... except if you caught every one in this thread alone, you'd be up to your eyeballs with busy.

Why again did you pick me out? Am I that much prettier?

I've responded to others besides yourself on other threads. It'd be pretty difficult to reply to a view I agree with tho. I just normally hit the "like" button in those cases. You seem angry and frustrated Stephen. Lay it at the cross. Christ died for all of us.

 

[Stephen63]

I've responded to others besides yourself on other threads. It'd be pretty difficult to reply to a view I agree with tho. I just normally hit the "like" button in those cases. You seem angry and frustrated Stephen. Lay it at the cross. Christ died for all of us.

Well..... I guess you are catching on.

 

[plainguy]

That's what I keep hearing from mine accusers.

Martyr complex much ? If you had no sin in your life, you wouldn't be talking about it.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Martyr complex much ? If you had no sin in your life, you wouldn't be talking about it.

The Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin, does the Spirit have sin? Jesus and his disciples reproved sinners, do you think Jesus had sin in his life? And do you think the Devil and his disciples would reprove sinners so that they might be saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin, does the Spirit have sin? Jesus and his disciples reproved sinners, do you think Jesus had sin in his life? And do you think the Devil and his disciples would reprove sinners so that they might be saved?

Your going about it the wrong way, A sinner KNOWS he is in sin (rom 1) You will never convict a lost person of coming to Christ by continuing to bash them and judge them on sin issues.

You will a lost soul to Christ by showing them Christ, and his payment, and his way out, THEN when a person is saved, and HAS THE ABILITY to grow in Christ and change their life. You disciple a person and show him how to walk like Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

when you sin and we all know that you do

This kind of statement interests me.
Sin can only be classified by the sinner about their own sin, or what they regard as sin.
This often is difficult, but obvious sin is a lot more easy.

"We all know that you do"

I only know what people tell me or what is obvious. It is not important what other people
do because it is their affair unless it hurts or damages another, then there is a question of
protection and need.

Some could go for years or the rest of their life not sinning. And sin has never been the
problem it is our communion with the Lord. Sin is only the symtom of a dying heart possessed
by evil desires.

Now the game being played here is attempted humiliation. But it is hypocrites throwing stones
at another who is desiring to walk as the Lord walks.

It is bully and ganging up mentality rather than encouragement to the higher calling.

But for the guilty, doomed to hell, this kind of game is grist for the mill of failure and
bitterness. I recognise it well, when the group decide the pet christian should be toasted.

So you know who knows about love and empathy and who likes torturing others.

"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone."
Rom 12:18

Therefore encourage one another and build each other up.
I thess 5:11

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matt 7:15

 

[preacher4truth]

Your going about it the wrong way, A sinner KNOWS he is in sin (rom 1) You will never convict a lost person of coming to Christ by continuing to bash them and judge them on sin issues.

You will a lost soul to Christ by showing them Christ, and his payment, and his way out, THEN when a person is saved, and HAS THE ABILITY to grow in Christ and change their life. You disciple a person and show him how to walk like Christ.

Isn't it remarkable that believers wants non-believers to act like believers, when the believer doesn't even do so himself? Remarkable and solemn to behold! Luke 11:46 maybe? Maybe some think that conversion is simply 'behavior modification'.

 

[PeterJens]

Your going about it the wrong way, A sinner KNOWS he is in sin (rom 1) You will never convict a lost person of coming to Christ by continuing to bash them and judge them on sin issues.

Funny how EG you have not learnt this