Women Pastors? Help me.
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Something that God helped me to understand about leadership applies here --
In life there are forks in the road. You may not know which way is the right way; in fact either way may work, provided you and the people with you are -unified- in your decision.
Now a husband may want to go right because he understands that territory. A wife may want to go left because she understands that. Neither of them are comfortable with the other direction, but the most important thing is staying together.
In this situation, one person must defer to the other, or the group divides and then both directions become the wrong direction. That is the nature of unity and leadership. There are times when they will agree on a direction, but not always. This is why the precedent of male leadership is set -- not because men are superior, but because a body needs a head.
Even when the head is stupid, if the body sticks to it, then the head can learn from its mistake. But if the body splits off they both die.
Vying for female leadership in the name of equality is 'a house divided against itself'. Holy Spirit is free to create female leaders and to confirm them. But the idea of male leadership in general is an important part of God's design that teaches all of us the necessity of service and unity. It is not oppressive, it just involves human beings that require grace and forgiveness from those under and over them.
With that said, some will not see this truth until they themselves lead, or until their offenses and wounds against those in authority, are bared openly to God so God can comfort and heal them. Many divisions in society, like this, are created by spiritual wounds.
In life there are forks in the road. You may not know which way is the right way; in fact either way may work, provided you and the people with you are -unified- in your decision.
Now a husband may want to go right because he understands that territory. A wife may want to go left because she understands that. Neither of them are comfortable with the other direction, but the most important thing is staying together.
In this situation, one person must defer to the other, or the group divides and then both directions become the wrong direction. That is the nature of unity and leadership. There are times when they will agree on a direction, but not always. This is why the precedent of male leadership is set -- not because men are superior, but because a body needs a head.
Even when the head is stupid, if the body sticks to it, then the head can learn from its mistake. But if the body splits off they both die.
Vying for female leadership in the name of equality is 'a house divided against itself'. Holy Spirit is free to create female leaders and to confirm them. But the idea of male leadership in general is an important part of God's design that teaches all of us the necessity of service and unity. It is not oppressive, it just involves human beings that require grace and forgiveness from those under and over them.
With that said, some will not see this truth until they themselves lead, or until their offenses and wounds against those in authority, are bared openly to God so God can comfort and heal them. Many divisions in society, like this, are created by spiritual wounds.
Just because you believe what you say above does not negate the Holy Inspired Word of God which plainly teaches women are not to usurp authority over men. Do you think that Inspired Word is incorrect? How is it God's fault if you DON'T believe His Word, but believe the doctrines of men which teach what you say above. Word of God teaches women are not usurp authority over men, but you teach they can in some cases. So which of you should i believe, Both can't be True? Should i believe God or you. God who teach they are NOT allowed, or you which teach they are allowed? People choose God, NOT men.
1Ti_2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
The Holy Spirit of Truth had this writer write EXACTLY what God wanted him to write, exactly as it is written. i believe what it plainly says. Those who do not believe what it says, are they that will go about to interpret that verse to mean something that they will believe in. Children could understand this verse. But leave it to the last day generation to try to change the Word of God to fit into what they believe is the TRUTH.
Lets see if i understand what you are asking me to do. The KJV Word of God has been around saving Brothers and Sisters for over 400 years, and you want me to TRUST the NEW versions that the last days generation comes up with? Is that what you are suggesting i do? Is it not wiser to TRUST in the WORD of God that satan tried to destroy? Trust the version that is still here to this day and will be until Christ comes back, despite the attempt for the Last Days generation to wipe it off the Earth. Sorry, i will stick with what i know Works, and not believe NEW translations that come about in the last days.
Plain, Simple, and the TRUTH. Leave it to the last days generation which does not believe this to be the TRUTH, to go about and CHANGE it to mean something other than the simple TRUTH, that is revealed here in Scriptures.
Is it God's fault women have become men, and men women?
Is it God's fault women wear the pants in the family and the men serve and obey their wives?
The Word of God is TRUE, woe to to all those who do not live by, nor believe it.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Is it God's fault women have become men, and men women?
Is it God's fault women wear the pants in the family and the men serve and obey their wives?
The Word of God is TRUE, woe to to all those who do not live by, nor believe it.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
1Tim 2:11 let the woman learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the men but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed then Eve, and Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1Cor 14:34 Let you women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but to be under obedience for it is a shame for women to speak in church, the things I write unto are the commandments of God.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
What you are saying is TRUE, however it does not negate or make void other Inspired by God verses in the NEW Testament given to Christians to obey.
Sure it is written LOVE covers a multitude of sins, this does not mean we can continue to live in sins, because LOVE covers them.
Those who live by and obey the Word of God are they that please God. How is it NOT the Will of God that we obey His Apostles which were instructed to write what they did through the Holy Spirit of God? This generation loves to hold on to particular verses, all the while ignoring, making void, or interpreting away other verses that they really don't like so much.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Sure it is written LOVE covers a multitude of sins, this does not mean we can continue to live in sins, because LOVE covers them.
Those who live by and obey the Word of God are they that please God. How is it NOT the Will of God that we obey His Apostles which were instructed to write what they did through the Holy Spirit of God? This generation loves to hold on to particular verses, all the while ignoring, making void, or interpreting away other verses that they really don't like so much.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
S
I'm sure everybody on this thread believes exactly what it says but the issue is that it's not directed towards women in the church it's directed towards women in the home and you refused to see that which means you're not actually using the Holy Spirit of Truth to understand the written word and you're definitely not practicing 2 Timothy 2:15
This is exactly what I mean by kjvo being a cult because soteriology 101 tells us that Jesus alone saves not a Bible translation.
And I have to reiterate, because apparently you have a hard time reading plain English, that the inspired word of God was the Greek not the KJV. That's strike two against you.
What is sad not ironic is that you still after all you've been shown, refuse to accept that the KJV is not the inspired word of God, only an outdated poor translation, and what it says you have taken out of context. That this verse has been properly exegeted and you refuse to accept it just shows how inculcated you are into the kjvo doctrine. Strike three... You're out!
This is exactly what I mean by kjvo being a cult because soteriology 101 tells us that Jesus alone saves not a Bible translation.
And I have to reiterate, because apparently you have a hard time reading plain English, that the inspired word of God was the Greek not the KJV. That's strike two against you.
What is sad not ironic is that you still after all you've been shown, refuse to accept that the KJV is not the inspired word of God, only an outdated poor translation, and what it says you have taken out of context. That this verse has been properly exegeted and you refuse to accept it just shows how inculcated you are into the kjvo doctrine. Strike three... You're out!
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Scriptures don't teach women are not allowed to teach. Scriptures are clear:
1Ti_2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
This verse clearly teaches they are not to teach or usurp authority over men.
Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. (who teaches these things, in this generation?)
This teaches that women can indeed teach women.
Believe the Word of God not what this generation thinks is the TRUTH.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
1Ti_2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
This verse clearly teaches they are not to teach or usurp authority over men.
Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. (who teaches these things, in this generation?)
This teaches that women can indeed teach women.
Believe the Word of God not what this generation thinks is the TRUTH.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
S
Then he should really be happy because if he truly believes that those here on this thread that support women being pastors are false teachers and he's being persecuted as such it should be an honor. the fact is that when a false teacher speaks falsely we are instructed to address it as such and it has nothing to do with whether we love one another but whether we love Jesus and his word more. Jesus called Peter Satan and according to you that would be wrong. This just shows how little you understand of what the scriptures actually teach. Whose disciple are you Dave? Because you're definitely not Jesus's disciple.
S
This type of self-righteous rhetoric is typical of those who teach falsehoods and do not really know what the true word of God teaches. They rely on a 400 year old Elizabethan English translation and they think it saves! Inevitably when false teachers are confronted they hide behind self-righteous indignation. The Bible teaches us never to acquiesce to false teaching but always address it head-on. Remember what the Bible says about who their father is.
i believe exactly what Scriptures teach, which plainly teach this:
1Ti_2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
The Holy Spirit of Truth had this writer write EXACTLY what God wanted him to write, exactly as it is written. i believe what it plainly says. Those who do not believe what it says, are they that will go about to interpret that verse to mean something that they will believe in. Children could understand this verse. But leave it to the last day generation to try to change the Word of God to fit into what they believe is the TRUTH.
Oh, i see, you say you believe what it says, but because YOU say it is to a specific group of women, thereby rendering the Inspired by God verse null and void to all women who do not fit into the category that you think the verse is written to.
1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men (ALL MEN) pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women (ALL WOMEN) adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
How do you come up with that? That the verses are specifically to women at home, please tell, if not from your own thinking?
i believe what the Word of God says, you are believing things that the Word of God does not say, in order to fit into your own ideal of what you think the Truth is. You have taken the above Holy, Inspired verse that is plainly written to ALL women, and changed it so that it is only speaking to a very few women, this in turn justifies your own way of thinking, and what does it really boil down to? You don't believe the verse, and therefore have to try to justify it some other way, which you successfully do, by saying that verse is written to women at home, which it does not say that at all, but in your own mind.
Lets see if i understand what you are asking me to do. The KJV Word of God has been around saving Brothers and Sisters for over 400 years, and you want me to TRUST the NEW versions that the last days generation comes up with? Is that what you are suggesting i do? Is it not wiser to TRUST in the WORD of God that satan tried to destroy? Trust the version that is still here to this day and will be until Christ comes back, despite the attempt for the Last Days generation to wipe it off the Earth. Sorry, i will stick with what i know Works, and not believe NEW translations that come about in the last days.
This is a perfect example of changing the Scriptures to mean something other than what it plainly says, in order to fit into your own thinking of what you think the Truth is. What the verse says is what it plainly means. ONLY those who do not agree with that Inspired by God verse will seek out other methods to interpret the verse to mean something other than what it says, altogether changing the Word of God to fit into the doctrines of men.
ironic, you say this to me. i say and teach adamantly to believe what the Word of God plainly says and teaches, yet you have effectively CHANGED the verse to mean something else, and then you say it is me with fallacious doctrine. Ironic. i believe what the Word of God plainly says, you believe what men tell you that verse means, and i am the once believing in false doctrines, that is Ironic indeed.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Notice how the above person is attacked, and all they did was write a Bible verse, NOTHING else. WOW. Because you did not like the version he used, you FAIL miserably to LOVE him? What? Your version doesn't teach about LOVING ONE ANOTHER? So because he used a version that YOU do not agree with, you call him a parrot, really? Where is your LOVE?
Yes we are most certainly suppose to address any false teaching that you see, this is True, but as i said above it was your method of addressing the teaching that i responded to. Yes we are to respond to false teaching, yes we are to reprove, yes we are to rebuke, yes we are to exhort. BUT all of it is to be done in LOVE, not accusing falsely, not name calling, not saying things that belittles or puts down others, these things are not from God but from his enemy the devil. Let your Yes be Yes and your No be No, anything more than that is evil.
If you feel he is teaching something that is false, then address that specifically, but calling names, or degrading someone is not of God, but is only going to invoke a negative response in return, which is not edifying the other. In Truth when a person call someone else a name or belittles another, how have they not put themselves ABOVE the other? This also is not of God.
Again, you are saying things that you do not know, how is it you are not falsely accusing me now? Have i ever said Jesus was wrong? Have i ever said anything even remotely what you are accusing me of now? Who is whispering these things to you? Who is telling you that is what is according to me?
Jesus can call whoever He want, whatever He wants, If He wants to call them vipers, and snakes, and whited walls, and many other things He has called them, that is Jesus. He is the Son of God, creator of the Universe and everything in it. All judgement belongs to Him. NOT TO US. Jesus is not wrong for calling them vipers, He is the JUDGE. But for me or you to call another vipers, which is not to Judge, is sinful and is against God.
And now you insult my intelligence, Again, i ask, Where is your LOVE. If LOVE lived inside of you, you would not be doing or accusing things as you do. But there is HOPE, Jesus Loves you, and He is willing to come and live inside of you, and when He does, LOVE will radiate out from you like a glow, and you will never again desire to try to upset anyone, you will LOVE them, you LOVE your enemies, you will Bless them that curse you, You will have a peace that surpasses all understanding, and not the anger that appears to reside in you now.
DiscipleDave is a screen name for ChristianChat.com. i am a prophet of the Most High God.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave