How long is the tribulation?

garee · Jan 13, 2017

The word thousand is found in that parable along with other metaphors ( chains, headless souls, Dragons, bottomless pits ). But what is the spiritual meaning seeing without parables Christ spoke not to the multitude.(everyone)

The thousand represents the last days .It began when the veil was rent, the time of reformation not the time of replacement .This is when the Jews were no longer used in types as shadows. The genealogy had come to an end. It was the beginning of Jacobs trouble (no outward representation).
And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations Mat 1:16

Ahwatukee · Jan 13, 2017

Morning garee,

Whether they are or not is irrelevant. The context should always be considered first. Here in Rev.20:1-7, there in nothing in the scripture that would infer that the words "a thousand years" as being symbolic, metaphors or allegorical. When you interpret something that is meant to be literal as being any of the above, the meaning is then distorted. Here in Rev.20:1-7 a thousand years, means a literal thousand years.

The information above is complete conjecture! what scripture do you have as proof that the thousand years began when the veil was torn in two? None! Zero! Zilch! It's made up! You would have to have something linking the thousand years and the rending of the veil, else your just making up your own explanation or you heard from some other teacher. And then again, since Christ's crucifixion was 2000 years ago, your making a thousand not a thousand.

The above is irrelevant, as the thousand years is the time that Christ will be ruling here on earth on the throne of David from Jerusalem, according to the prophecy. And it is during this same thousand years that Satan will be bound in the Abyss. It is also the same amount of time that the church and the great tribulation saints will rule with Christ on this earth in their immortal and glorified bodies.

If the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense.

KJV1611 · Jan 13, 2017

garee said:

The word thousand is found in that parable along with other metaphors ( chains, headless souls, Dragons, bottomless pits ). But what is the spiritual meaning seeing without parables Christ spoke not to the multitude.(everyone)

The thousand represents the last days .It began when the veil was rent, the time of reformation not the time of replacement .This is when the Jews were no longer used in types as shadows. The genealogy had come to an end. It was the beginning of Jacobs trouble (no outward representation).
And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations Mat 1:16

The dragon is the devil, we know that from the bible. Where does the bible define 1000 years in the way you have suggested?

Ahwatukee · Jan 13, 2017

The chains spoken of are obviously something that will restrict Satan. Those who will have been beheaded is literal, for many of the great tribulation saints will beheaded during that time. The dragon which is symbolic representing Satan as it states that right in the scripture, "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan." So the symbolism is mentioned first, then the literal meaning of who dragon is. It uses the same description in Rev.12:9 "The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray." So one does not have to guess what the symbolism for 'the dragon" is representing because tell the reader right in the context.

The Abyss (bottomless pit) is also not symbolic, but a literal place underneath the earth. Legion, which is a collective name for that group of demons, begged Jesus not to send them into the Abyss. It is the same place where the beast is currently restricted in until he is released.

Ahwatukee · Jan 13, 2017

KJV1611 said:

It is because that is what he has been taught. One of the errors of misapplying scripture regarding the thousand years can be found in Psalms 50:10:

"for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills."

They view the thousand hills as not being literal, but as an unknown number, which in this case is true. For God is saying that he owns all of the hills and all the cattle on them. But what they do, is they take the meaning here in Psalms 50:10 and apply the same meaning to Rev.20:1-7, while ignoring the context and thereby creating the error.

buddyt · Jan 13, 2017

Dan58
I for one agree to your answer it is written. And will be 5 months.

Spurgeoncy · Jan 13, 2017

KJV1611 said:

In Daniel 8 Daniel says that the Abomination will last 2300 Evenings and Mornings. As there was a morning and evening sacrifice, and the Abomination curtailed them, there were 2300 curtailments, which corresponds to 1150 days.

So when dealing with the Temple, you already have a scriptural precedent for multiplication and division by 2.

Jesus said there are 12 hours in a day. In Psalms God says a thousand years are as a day. These are simply interpretative keys.

For reasons of interpretation, Jesus told us that they are 12 hours in a day, i.e. 12 hours and 24 hours can be considered equivalent.

If 12 = 24, then we have a key that allows us to double a number for an interpretation.

So 42 months can be considered as 84 months.

84 months is 2520 days / years

2520 years is the time in question here. (360 X 7 = 2520 also, and 360 years is a period of God's judgement)

garee · Jan 13, 2017

KJV1611 said:

Yes as a metaphor the dragon represented an unseen spirit, the spirit of error of the deceiver. No literal chain can hold a lying spirit. And a person cannot see a headless soul. Souls have no outward appearance. It’s simply a metaphor to represent those who have been given as new spirit that will never die and a new heart. Christ is our head. I would say it simply means witness. Seeing all men die having not received the promise. There is no special reward for dying sooner than another.

A martyr (Greek: μάρτυς, mártys, "witness"; stem μάρτυρ-, mártyr-) is somebody who suffers persecution and death for advocating, renouncing, refusing to renounce, or refusing to advocate a belief or cause as demanded by an external party.
Where does the bible define 1000 years in the way you have suggested?
It is something I was working on perhaps 20 years agao and offered it on a eschatology board .This other person offered His which is much clearer and scholarly than what I could offer.
It’s a little long but I believe worth the read .
A THOUSAND and TEN THOUSAND

The terms one thousand and ten thousand are employed many times in Scripture, in varying figurative senses, to describe large numbers or vast periods of time. The expressions are also commonly used to symbolically describe great pictures of immeasurable vastness.

The first time the actual term ‘‘a thousand’’ is used in a figurative sense in Scripture is found in Deuteronomy 1:10-11where Moses is seen speaking to the children of Israel, saying, ““The Lord your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude. (The Lord God of your fathers make you A THOUSAND times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!).””

Moses, here, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit employs the term ‘‘a thousand’’ to reveal the immense prosperity he desires for the people of God. This expression again does not in any way denote an exact ‘‘thousand’’ but rather explains in a figurative sense the deep sense of spiritual increase he wishes to see bestowed on his kindred from the providential hand of the God of his fathers. This passage is not intending to limit God's blessing to an expansion of only one thousand times. Rather it is a figurative way of saying that God is the source of ALL increase and ALL blessing.

The Psalmist says, whilst exalting the Word of God in Psalm 119:72, ““The law of thy mouth is better unto me than THOUSANDS of gold and silver.”” Here he is simply highlighting the unfathomable riches of God’s eternal truth, in stark contrast to the temporal satisfaction of worldly possessions and worldly gain. That’s why Christ asked in Mark 8:36-37, ““For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?””

Isaiah 7:22-24 says, ““And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land. And it shall come to pass in that day, that every place shall be, where there were A THOUSAND vines at A THOUSAND silverlings (or, for the price of a thousand bits of silver), it shall even be for briers and thorns.””

The term ““a thousand”” is here used as a symbol (rather than an exact amount) to impress a scriptural truth, indicating the grave consequence of disobedience –– briers and thorns would replace the many fruitful vines.

Moses again employs ‘‘a thousand’’ in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, ““Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to A THOUSAND generations.”” This reading expressly reveals that God is a covenant keeping God. Moses is specifically testifying to the unfailing faithfulness of God and to the continuous bountiful mercies He bestows upon His people. Psalm 119:90 says, ““Thy faithfulness is unto all generations.”” He is here, in some way, articulating the reality of His perpetual blessings and the enormity of His love towards His elect. The term ““a thousand”” is here used as an indeterminate number, evidently indicating all generations.

Psalm 89:4 says, ““Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations.””

A thousand generations is therefore simply used here as a figure or symbol to represent all generations, it unquestionably cannot be limited to, or specifically relate to, a fixed number. This is highlighted when we discover the small amount of generations that have hitherto passed in this world.

Genesis 5:1-32 tells us that (1) Adam begat (2) Seth begat (3) Enos begat (4) Cainan begat (5) Mahalaleel begat (6) Jared begat (7) Enoch begat (8) Methuselah begat (9) Lamech begat (10) Noah begat (11) Shem. There is therefore eleven generations from Adam to Shem.

Genesis 11:1-32 says, (1) Shem begat (2) Arphaxad begat (3) Salah begat (4) Eber begat (5) Peleg begat (6) Reu begat (7) Serug begat (8) Nahor begat (9) Terah begat (10) Abram. There is therefore ten generations from Seth to Abraham.

Matthew 1:17 completes the remainder of the equation from Abraham to Christ, stating, ““So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

Therefore:

Adam to Shem = 11 generations.
Shem to Abraham = 10 generations.
Abraham to David = 14 generations.
David to ““the carrying away into Babylon”” = 14 generations.
““The carrying away into Babylon”” unto Christ = 14 generations.

11 + 10 + 14 + 14 + 14 = 63 generations.

This is just a rough generational list, however, Luke accurately traces the exact direct generational lineage from Adam to Christ in Luke 3:23-38, and arrives at 76 generations. Moreover, just over 2,000 years have now elapsed from Christ to our present day; therefore, allowing approximately for a 40-year generation (2000 divided by 40), we have only reached an additional 50 generations today. We have consequently only approximately exhausted 126 generations roughly 874 short of the precise 1000 generations mark, which the literalists would have us believe.

Of course, the Spirit of God does not in the slightest speak in vain or advance a lie. The generational figure simply refers to the eternal promise and extent of His mercies. A thousand generations here thus means ALL.

A similar symbolic passage is revealed in Psalm 105:4, 8-10, ““Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore……He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to A THOUSAND generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant.””

Here the Psalmist outlines the unchanging nature of Almighty God and reveals His unswerving faithfulness and blessing toward His spiritual seed. Such a favor is today exclusively concentrated upon the Church of Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:7-9 explains, ““Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.””

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 also states, ““O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to A THOUSAND generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant.””

Suppose we were required to take these three references to ““a thousand generations”” literally, then, it would indicates an actual earthly time period of around 40,000 years –– 40 years multiplied by 1000. However, it is NOT in the slightest suggesting a thousand literal generations. It is simply telling us that the covenant God made with Abraham and his seed is true, boundless and eternal. Significantly, our last references closes with the truth that this glorious Divine pact is ““an everlasting covenant.””

Psalm 105:8 supports this supposition, saying, ““He hath remembered his covenant for ever.””

Ten thousand is used as a popular biblical multiple in a similar sense as the number one thousand to indicate an inestimable number. This is seen in Revelation 5:11 were both numbers are used together by John in an immeasurable calculation to express great magnitude, saying, ““And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was TEN THOUSAND times TEN THOUSAND, and THOUSANDS of THOUSANDS; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.””

Both numbers are here used in an unquantifiable sum to in some way describe the redeemed of God that stand before the heavenly throne of God, who no man could possibly number. The terms ““thousands”” and ““ten thousand”” are deliberately brought together in an indefinite multiplication sum to reveal a vast immeasurable crowd.
John alludes to the same heavenly scene in Revelation 7:9-10 where John declares, ““I beheld, and, lo, A GREAT MULTITUDE, WHICH NO MAN COULD NUMBER, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.””

Daniel uses the same numerical declaration to describe the same incalculable size of the throng situated around the throne of God in heaven, in Daniel 7:9-10, saying, ““I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: THOUSAND THOUSANDS ministered unto him, and TEN THOUSAND times TEN THOUSAND stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.””

The same concept, of unspecific multiplication, is found in Genesis chapter 24, albeit the term thousands is here coupled with ““millions”” in order to figuratively indicate the vast inheritance and spiritual numerical growth that would be realized in the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. This reference is found in the familiar passage of Rebecca leaving home for Isaac. Here, her family bids her farewell, saying, ““Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of THOUSANDS OF MILLIONS, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them”” (vv 59-60). The family’s farewell comments, here, being in perfect prophetic accordance with the spiritual inheritance she was now entering into, by marrying Isaac –– the heir to Abraham’s seed promise, and therefore a partaker of the promise.

One thousand and ten thousand are used together in Psalm 91, where they are undoubtedly intended as non-specific numbers used to describe God’s protection, saying, ““Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A THOUSAND shall fall at thy side, and TEN THOUSAND at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee”” (vv 5-7).

The spiritual use of this emblematic number, representing a large indeterminate amount, and the literal fulfillment of such a promise, is starkly seen in Judges 15:14-16 in the life of Samson, where we learn, ““the Philistines shouted against him: and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed from off his hands. And he found a new jawbone of an ass, and put forth his hand, and took it, and slew A THOUSAND men therewith. And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain A THOUSAND men.””

Here the reality of that promise is clearly seen. Notwithstanding, it is difficult to know here whether there were exactly one thousand Philistine casualties or whether the word is used, as elsewhere, in a more general way to express a large amount. More than likely the two references to ““a thousand”” are to indicate a the idea of a large amount.

Both numbers used together in Psalm 91 are simply used to signify the matchless safety that is found in Almighty God. These figures are deliberately employed to represent the tremendous protection that God bestows upon His children when faced with great adversity and unfair odds. Similarly, David declared in Psalm 3:6, ““I will not be afraid of TEN THOUSANDS of people, that have set themselves against me round about.””
Interestingly, in 1 Samuel 18:6-8, we learn, ““And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick. And the women answered one another as they played, and said, Saul hath slain his THOUSANDS, and David his TEN THOUSANDS. And Saul was very wroth.””

Significantly, the thing that David had faith for was very thing that he realised. As Jesus said In Matthew 17:20, ““verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.””

Deuteronomy 32:30 asks, ““How should one chase A THOUSAND, and two put TEN THOUSAND to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?”” Again, in this case, the Holy Spirit employs these numbers to impress upon the human mind the enormity of God’s might and power. It indicates the security that is found in Christ and the power he imputes on those that fear Him. The correlation between one and one thousand (and two and ten thousand) is done here, not to indicate exact figures, but to contrast the idea of ‘‘the little’’ arrayed against ‘‘the mighty’’.

God similarly said, in symbolic language, to the children of Israel in Leviticus 26:7-8, ““And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. And FIVE of you shall chase an HUNDRED, and an HUNDRED of you shall put TEN THOUSAND to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.””

One and one thousand are used metaphorically in different places in Scripture to represent the same emblematic thought. Using the same idea and referring to a specific measure of time, Psalm 84:9-10 declares, ““Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than A THOUSAND. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.””

This figurative statement in essence asserts that a day in the Lord’s presence is more blessed than untold ordinary ones outside of such. It in no way indicates that one (twenty-four hour) day in God’s presence exactly represents one thousand days elsewhere, such a limit would be an unfair restriction upon the meaning intended. Such a literal interpretation is at clear variance with the undoubted general usage of the phrase in Scripture and the specific import of the reading under analysis.

Comparing ‘‘one’’ to ‘‘one thousand’’ is common in Scripture; however, it is not simply a concept that is narrowly restricted to the subject of time, or exact time at that. The contrast between these two diverse numbers, as extreme as they are, is normally advanced to reveal, in some way, the matchlessness and greatness of Almighty God compared to the normal. It is also intended to represent the absolute power and many blessings that are found in God. This victory over the odds has been the gracious testimony of many godly saints throughout the years.

Not only does God preserve His covenant people in the midst of the fire, He also fights on their behalf. The story of biblical and Church history is a perpetual account of triumph over adversity –– victory against amazing odds. Joshua affirms, on the same vein, in chapter 23, ““One man of you shall chase A THOUSAND: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you”” (v 10). Isaiah the prophet declares in Isaiah 30:17, ““ONE THOUSAND shall flee at the rebuke of one.””

These readings reveal the power of God manifested through weak earthen vessels when operating under the anointing, and in the will, of God. Such texts in some way express the heavenly authority that God bestows upon His children and describes how they can overcome ‘‘untold’’ foes through Christ who saves them. One thousand here clearly signifies ‘‘countless’’.

Continued..

garee · Jan 13, 2017

The figure one thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 to denote the greatness of God’s providence, saying, ““For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon A THOUSAND hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.””

In no way does this figurative text intimate that Christ merely owns the cattle on one thousand hills but rather that He owns ‘‘every beast’’ on ‘‘every hill’’, thus revealing His omnipotence. The term ““a thousand”” is thus used to signify an incalculable number. The phrase is used to portray the Sovereignty of God and His supreme kingship over all creation. We must clearly acknowledge that the figure ‘‘one thousand’’ is consistently and symbolically employed, throughout the Word of God, to denote an unfathomable amount or a vast period.

Even the figurative every-day statement –– ‘‘one in a thousand’’, has emanated from the fountainhead of Scripture. Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, ““one man among A THOUSAND have I found.”” The thought here intended is that the man under consideration is of a particular choice character, being, as it where, the pick-of-the-bunch. The usage of the numbers one and a thousand is thus employed to represent a particular truth rather than specifically describing an accurate numerical equation.

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, ““If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among A THOUSAND, to shew unto man his uprightness.”” The same two common numbers are used here in the form of a contrast to simply portray the picture of a special vessel. Again, it is not the numbers that are important but the idea they represent.

As we have already discovered in our studies, the same kind of function is repeatedly afforded to the use of the term ‘‘ten thousand’’ as is ‘‘a thousand’’ in Scripture. It is often used in the same context and in the same way as a symbol to represent an immense figure. Thus, the Song of Solomon 5:10 declares, ““My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among TEN THOUSAND.””

Ten thousand is here used to, in some way, portray the deep-rooted emotions that a man feels towards his sweetheart. The usage of the number ‘‘ten thousand’’ thus indicates the idea of the deep affection of the man rather than specifically describing an exact numerical computation.

The same idea is presented in 2 Samuel 18:2-3 where David is seen preparing for battle. He tells the people, ““I will surely go forth with you myself also.”” To which the people responded, ““Thou shalt not go forth: for if we flee away, they will not care for us; neither if half of us die, will they care for us: but now thou art worth TEN THOUSAND of us: therefore now it is better that thou succor us out of the city.””

Jesus employs the number ten thousand as a general figure in Luke 14:31 to relate the necessity of wisdom, asking, ““what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with TEN THOUSAND to meet him that cometh against him with TWENTY THOUSAND?””

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, ““I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of A THOUSAND.”” This passage, in short, simply suggests the truth that man can in no way challenge the ways and precepts of God.

The same idea is intended in Isaiah 60:21-22, where the prophet instructs, in relation to the New Earth, ““Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become A THOUSAND, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.””

This passage is expressed in such a manner to in some way describe the great standing, wealth and supernatural power that is found in them that are God’s. God magnifies them in such a manner that the world cannot remotely comprehend. The expressions thus indicate magnitude:

1 = 1,000
A small one = A strong nation

Paul the Apostle uses the figure ‘‘ten thousand’’ in 1 Corinthians 4:15 to impress a spiritual truth, saying, ““For though ye have TEN THOUSAND instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”” What Paul was simply saying was, that, ‘‘though ye have numerous instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers’’

Paul uses the same principle in 1 Corinthians 14:19 to advocate wisdom in relation to the exercise of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, saying, ““in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than TEN THOUSAND words in an unknown tongue.”” Paul here instructs the Corinthians that it is better to speak a little in a tongue that is understood than to speak numerous words in an unknown tongue which is misunderstood.

Micah asks a question in Micah 6:7, which he then answers in verse 8:

Q. ““Will the LORD be pleased with THOUSANDS of rams, or with TEN THOUSANDS of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?””

A. ““He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?””

Isaiah asks a similar question in Isaiah 1:11, only he substitutes the terms ““thousands”” and ““ten thousands”” with the word multitude, asking, ““To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.””
What the Lord required in these two instances, as he still does today, was NOT multiple physical external sacrifices but rather real true personal spiritual internal sacrifices. The terms ““thousands”” and ““ten thousands”” in Micah therefore figuratively represents ‘‘many’’ or ‘‘numerous’’ or, in agreement with Isaiah, ‘‘multiple’’.

The number one thousand is also figuratively used in Amos 5:2-4 to prophetically describe the judgment which awaited the rebellious house of natural Israel. Again, it does not denote a literal figure but rather the type, degree and enormity of judgment that would befall Israel. Amos 5:1-4 says, ““The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up. For thus saith the Lord GOD; The city that went out by A THOUSAND shall leave AN HUNDRED, and that which went forth by AN HUNDRED shall leave TEN, to the house of Israel.””

Such numbers are occasionally used in Scripture to symbolize and emphasize the magnification or the minimizing of specific Divine blessings or judgments. The descending multiples of 1,000, 100 and 10 are employed here as symbols or figures to signify an impending reality, rather than representing any precise numerical prediction. Such popular numbers are purposely chosen to, in some way, impress the considerable degree of judgment approaching. The figure ‘‘one thousand’’ here (like the other two numbers) is thus a common figure used to describe the serious impending wrath.

The reverse idea is also employed in ascending scale to describe spiritual principles / ideas and Divine truth throughout Scripture. This is seen in the round figures of 1,000, 10,000 and 144,000. They are used as common and complete numbers and carry an undoubted symbolic usage.

Continued...

garee · Jan 13, 2017

Conclusion

From the many explicit passages in Scripture, which we have studied, we see a consistent pattern with the use of both the terms ‘‘one thousand’’ or ‘‘a thousand’’. Like that of ‘‘ten thousand’’, it is repeatedly used throughout the Word to describe an idea, reality, principle or truth rather than a specific number. In saying so, it is normally used to impress the idea of a large, vast or innumerable amount or time period. We must therefore pause a moment to acknowledge this definite fact before rushing directly into examining the subject of ‘‘a thousand years’’ and more particularly Revelation 20.

A THOUSAND YEARS

The figure ‘‘a thousand years’’ is employed ten times in Scripture –– twice in the Old Testament and eight times in the New Testament. Significantly, of the eight mentions in the New, six are found in the same book of the Bible –– Revelation. And of even greater note, all are disproportionately found together within the same chapter –– Revelation 20. The two other New Testament references are found in the book of 2 Peter. In all the references, they indicate a large unspecific indefinite time period.

The two Old Testament passages are found in Psalm 90 and Ecclesiastes 6. And in both references the figure ‘‘a thousand years’’ is used in a symbolic or figurative sense to denote an indefinite time-span. The first mention is in Psalm 90:3-5, where we read, ““For A THOUSAND YEARS in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.””
This passage is often misguidedly advanced by Premillennialists as proof of a literal physical future earthly millennium. Such people confidently advance it in such a way, as if it states, ‘‘For a thousand years in thy sight are but as tomorrow which is yet to come. However, a careful reading of this inspired narrative reveals that it rather in stark contrast declares, ““For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past.”” This passage therefore does not in the slightest allude to the future, never mind to some supposed impending earthly post Second Advent temporal period, but clearly to the PAST. This passage simply reveals profound truth about God and His infinite view of time rather than any misconceived earthly idea about a future millennium.

A ‘‘thousand years’’ is here used to describe God’s eternal view of time, which is in stark contrast to man’s limited understanding. This text teaches us that time is nothing with the Lord. God lives in eternity and His perspective of time far exceeds the finite mind of man. A ‘‘thousand years’’ in this life is but a flash in the light of eternity. This reading goes on then to describe the solemn reality of the fleetingness of time and the brevity of life, saying, ““we spend our years as a tale that is told”” (v 9).

No wonder the Psalmist humbly prays to God, ““teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.””

In Ecclesiastes 6:3,6-7 we find the second Old Testament reference to a thousand years. Here the term is simply used to represent an idea rather than outlining a specific measurable period of time. It reads, ““If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he……Yea, though he live A THOUSAND YEARS twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place? All the labour of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.””

This text is not remotely suggesting that a person could actually live to be a thousand years multiplied by two (or 2,000 years), such is, and has always been since the fall, a naturally impossibility. Rather, the text expresses a deep spiritual truth that even if someone lives to an incomprehensible age outside of Christ and hope, this life is completely meaningless. The term a 1000 multiplied by 2 therefore represents a hypothetically number, which spiritually impresses the important reality of the brevity and futility of carnal life. No man in Scripture, or since, has ever lived to the age of 2,000 years old.

Interestingly, the only place outside of Revelation 20 that the term a thousand years is mentioned in the New Testament is in 2 Peter 3. There once again, it is significantly used in an entirely figurative sense. In this chapter, Peter is specifically addressing the cynics who live in the last days that doubt the appearing of the Lord at His Second Advent and indeed harbor the foolish notion that He will not come at all. It is in this context that he addresses these misguided doubters, saying, ““there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation”” (2 Peter 3:3-4).

Peter, however, says in response, ““For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as A THOUSAND YEARS, and A THOUSAND YEARS as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance”” (vv 5-9).

This familiar passage closely parallels the reading that we have just analyzed in Psalm 90, indicating the same spiritual truth –– that God is not limited to time. Again, notably, the contrast between one and one thousand is employed to simply represent an important divine truth.

Some theologians mistakenly attempt to use this passage to argue that one of God’s eternal days represents a literal thousand earthly years and that the time-span commences immediately subsequent to the Second Advent. However, they do err in their assumption, in that; this text simply indicates the briefness of time with God. 2 Peter 3 does not in anyway indicate a future earthly millennium kingdom anywhere in this reading. Peter is simply reminding such people that time are absolutely nothing to the King of glory. He ultimately sits outside of time in the realm of eternity. Time is but a blink to His infinite mind and to the eternal state.

It is in this context that he addresses these misguided doubters. Peter says in response, ““beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day”” (v 8).

Peter thus outlines two distinct contrasting time equations in this passage for the sole purpose of expressing a deep spiritual truth. Notwithstanding, and not surprisingly, the Premillennialist are swift to selectively advance the first aspect of this calculation as supposed evidence that one of God’s Divine eternal heavenly days represents a thousand literal temporal earthly years. However, whilst they unquestionably address, and happily literalize, the first part of this calculation they are exceedingly careful to completely side step the second part of the sum. Evidently, such is for the reason that it doesn’t fit their flawed hyper-literalist mode of interpretation.

If the literalist mode of interpretation were applied to the second aspect of this sum it would reveal a completely divergent computation than that established in part one. A thousand of God’s Divine eternal heavenly years expressly representing only one literal earthly day –– which seemingly contradicts the first.

If

1 heavenly day = 1000 literal earthly years.

then

365.25 heavenly days (or 1 heavenly year) = 365,250 literal earthly years (365.25 x 1000).

then

1000 heavenly years = 365,250,000 literal earthly years (365.25 x 1000 x 1000).
however, God says in the same passage that:

1000 heavenly years = 1 earthly day.

If this passage is to be interpreted literally, as the Premillennialists often demand, then a thousand of God’s eternal years represents exactly three hundred and sixty five million human years. The sum total of this calculation poignantly highlights the folly of the selective (largely unchallenged) hyper literalist interpretation of 2 Peter 3 and many other similar passages.

Who is right? Either Scripture is here seriously contradicting itself or the Premillennialists are gravely out of order in their hyper-literalist interpretation. Frankly, they must concede that Peter is not in the slightest outlining an exact measure of time; rather, he is simply expressing an important eternal truth –– time is nothing with God. Therefore, the Bible student can no more argue that one of God’s eternal days represents a literal thousand (365.25 day) earthly years than he can promote a thousand of God’s heavenly days too literally represent one literal actual (365.25 day) earthly year –– the dogmatism is clearly irrational.

THE ‘‘THOUSAND YEARS’’ IN REVELATION 20

The six mention a thousand years are concurrently found together in Revelation 20:1-8, which says, ““And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him A THOUSAND YEARS, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till THE THOUSAND YEARS should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast (the anti-Christ system of this world - period), neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ A THOUSAND YEARS. But the rest of the dead lived not again until THE THOUSAND YEARS were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him A THOUSAND YEARS. And when THE THOUSAND YEARS are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.””

The word ‘‘millennium’’ here is of Latin origin meaning ‘‘a thousand years.’’ The comparable word used in the original New Testament Greek for the same is ‘‘Chiliad.’’

It is worth reminding ourselves again that the expression a ‘‘thousand years’’ comes up six times in the book of Revelation, which is two more time than the whole of Scripture put together. Of the four other references in Scripture that we have previously examined, two are in the Old and two are in the New Testament. Significantly, in ALL the other four previous occasions, the term is figuratively used to denote ‘‘a long time period’’. This finding, as we have discovered, is in complete accord with the consistent use of the general expression ‘‘a thousand’’ in Scripture. Such is repeatedly employed to denote ‘‘a large number’’ or ‘‘an untold amount.’’ Also, of the four previous mentions of a ‘‘thousand years,’’ we have found none to explicitly or implicitly teach that there is going to be a literal ‘‘thousand years’’ reign of Christ on earth nor a coinciding literal ‘‘thousand years’’ binding of the devil. Neither is there any other passage in Scripture that indicates such a teaching.

Of the six mentions of a ‘‘thousand years’’ in Revelation, all are found together in the same chapter –– the one currently under examination –– Revelation 20. And at that, in six consecutive verses of 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. Quite frankly, and in particular reference to the actual figure, this chapter is the sole source for arguing for a literal ‘‘thousand years’’ reign of Christ on earth and a literal ‘‘thousand years’’ binding of the devil. Therefore, nobody involved in this overall debate can downplay the significance of this important chapter.

In addition to the unquestionable pattern already established, we must also remind ourselves of the chapter’s setting. Revelation 20 sits in the most symbolic book of the Bible; a book that is saturated in numerology and the most figurative language in Scripture. We must therefore examine the chapter in such a manner and interpret it in such a figurative context less error would arise in its overall interpretation.

William E. Cox in his book ‘‘Biblical Studies in Final Things’’ says, ““It is self-evident that this lone passage dealing with the millennium is couched in a book of the Bible literally filled with symbols, numerology, figures of speech, poetic language, spiritual lessons couched in Old Testament terminology, etc. Although this is true the very word ‘‘revelation’’ in verse 1 of chapter 1 means ‘‘unveiling.’’ This verse of the Revelation also informs us that this unveiling was ““signified”” to John. This word means that the message, or unveiling, was given in symbols, or figures. So, there is something amiss when a symbol which was given to unveil God’s plan becomes a veil of obscurity”” (p.158).

We have no reason therefore to interpret ‘‘a thousand years’’ any different than the consistent pattern already seen or to take it as anything other than a symbolic figure used to describe a long period of time. We must therefore conclude that the ‘‘thousand years’’ expression employed in this chapter is not a literal period of time or a future millennial kingdom but a figurative term and a spiritual reign which is currently in progress in the lives of all those who love, the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord –– whether in heaven or in earth. THIS is in keeping with the rest of Scripture.

We must also conclude that Satan is spiritually bound (or curtailed) now through the victory of the Lord Jesus Christ at the cross, and that Christ now reigns victoriously in the world in the hearts of His blood bought people –– ‘‘the Church.’’

This figurative position on the chapter before us is supported by the overall nature of the book of Revelation, the consistent pattern of the use of the term ‘‘one thousand’’ in Scripture. And most importantly, by the clearly expressed teaching of the rest of Scripture which reveals that when Christ comes again He will set up an eternal Kingdom, which cannot be limited to time.

We are therefore warranted in concluding that Revelation 20 is a symbolic viewing of the current spiritual reign of God’s people and the spiritual restrictions placed upon the devil by the Lord relating particularly to the deception of the nations.
It is of major significance that Christ the Son of God made absolutely NO mention or description whatsoever of an earthly physical temporal kingdom on this earth after His glorious Second Advent. Equally, Paul the Apostle, that Hebrew of the Hebrews, made NO such similar allusion.

ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY FOUR THOUSAND

Significantly, the 144,000 are found NOWHERE ELSE in Holy Writ, rather, only in the extremely symbolic book of Revelation. Therefore, it is reasonable to interpret this figure, in consistent keeping with the allegorical usage of the numbers 1’’000 and 10,000, in a symbolic manner.

If 1000 = a large amount, and 10,000 = a vast amount, then 144,000 = a number that no one can number.

The first time we discover the number 144,000 is in relation to the redeemed of God that are preserved from the wrath of God in heaven in Revelation 7. Revelation 7:3-4 says, specifically of the great final day of God’’s wrath, ““Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed AN HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND of all the tribes of the children of Israel.””

Notably, this inspired text continues to describe this throng rescued throng of the 144,000, saying, ““I beheld, and, lo, A GREAT MULTITUDE, WHICH NO MAN COULD NUMBER, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.””

Evidently, the fusing together of the numbers 12 (representing authority) and a thousand (representing magnitude) is not in the slightest accidental in such a symbolic book. Such is done to impress the magnitude and authority of the throng of the redeemed before the throne of God.

Notably, the 144,000 are also seen in heaven –– in total –– in Revelation 14.

Revelation 14:1-3 says, ““And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him AN HUNDRED FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth.””

The number 144,000 is also found in Revelation 21:15-17; this time it is done so to describe the unparalleled magnitude and splendor of the heavenly New Jerusalem. Again there is no theological reason to interpret the number in a literal sense. Firstly, because of its symbolic location, secondly, because of its symbolic nature, thirdly, because it is the sole reference to the actual dimensions of this great heavenly abode.

Revelation 21:15-17 says, ““And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, TWELVE THOUSAND FURLONGS. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, AN HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.””

It is interesting to note that a measuring stick is only used on two significant occasions in Revelation (1) to determine the limits of the temple –– the Church –– and (2) the eternal abode of that Church –– the New Jerusalem. Thus indicating the marvelous truth of the faithful Divine preservation and provision of God towards His elect.

Re the 144,000 people, I propose that they represent a number that no man could humanly number.

Re the measurements of the heavenly Jerusalem, I similarly propose that its dimensions represent a structure that no man could truly measure.

Ahwatukee · Jan 13, 2017

garee,

Dude! You are making this way too difficult. I don't understand why you can't just believe what the scripture says?

KJV1611 · Jan 13, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

It is because that is what he has been taught. One of the errors of misapplying scripture regarding the thousand years can be found in Psalms 50:10:

"for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills."

They view the thousand hills as not being literal, but as an unknown number, which in this case is true. For God is saying that he owns all of the hills and all the cattle on them. But what they do, is they take the meaning here in Psalms 50:10 and apply the same meaning to Rev.20:1-7, while ignoring the context and thereby creating the error.

That means the sheep in the millennium.

Ahwatukee · Jan 13, 2017

The 144,000 is a literal number. The fact that this group is introduced as 144,000 and then the next group is introduced as a number which no man could count, demonstrate that there is a distinction between them in their numbers and their descriptions should be taken literally.

How can you have those in white robes as a number which no man can count and then have the number of 144,000 mean the same exact thing? Does that sound right to you? The fact that John says, "I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel" should tell you that God is dealing with literal numbers. You're just distorting scripture by doing so.

Ahwatukee · Jan 13, 2017

KJV1611 said:

Psalms 50:10 has nothing to do whatsoever with the millennial kingdom. Looking at all of the context, God is saying that he owns everything and is aware of everything.

garee · Jan 13, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Did you mean in the sense that without parables Christ spoke not. Hiding the spiritul meaning from the lost revealing it to a kingdom of priest(Christians)

How would taking it literally apply to the parable below.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.Heb 11:17

The word figure,

3850 parabole {par-ab-ol-ay'}
from 3846; TDNT - 5:744,773; n f
AV - parable 46, figure 2, comparison 1, proverb 1; 50
1) a placing of one thing by the side of another, juxtaposition, as of ships in battle 2) metaph. 2a) a comparing, comparison of one thing with another, likeness, similitude 2b) an example by which a doctrine or precept is illustrated 2c) a narrative, fictitious but agreeable to the laws and usages of human life, by which either the duties of men or the things of God, particularly the nature and history of God's kingdom are figuratively portrayed 2d) a parable: an earthly story with a heavenly meaning 3) a pithy and instructive saying, involving some likeness or comparison and having preceptive or admonitory force 3a) an aphorism, a maxim 4) a proverb 5) an act by which one exposes

Or the parable below used to represent the eternal (Not seen eternal rest ) .The kingdom of God is not of this world the reason he used parables.

Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. Deu 5:13

A different rendering of the same rest in Exodus.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Exo 20:8

Ahwatukee · Jan 13, 2017

The scripture very clearly states that the dragon is symbolic for Satan, plain and simple. Just as there are physical chains that can restrict the men, God can also have a chain that would restrict Satan in the Abyss. How do you think the beast who is currently in the Abyss is restricted in there. Or how do you think those four angels are currently bound at the Euphrates river, who will be released at the sounding of the 6th trumpet? Obviously, something is restricting them in the spiritual realm. Try believing what the scripture actually says.

KJV1611 · Jan 13, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

You're right on one level, but that's the bottom level, there is much more to those verses than what's on the surface. Which is BTW where the word of God is hidden from the world. If this point is missed, most of what God has for us will be missed.

EarnestQ · Jan 13, 2017

Bladerunner said:

Might that be the Day of God's Wrath, starting at the seventh (last) trumpet and including the Battle of Armagedon, just after the saints are translated at the end 3 1/2 year tribulation?

(The seven year tribulation is likely a mistranslation of Dan 9:27 which is likely talking about Christ, not antichrist. Jesus set up the covenant with many, not the AC.)

garee · Jan 13, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

The restriction is they do not hear the world of God as that which can loosen the chains.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

He with other lying spirits fell from that place. When Christ said it is finished. No longer could he present himself with the presence of the Lord. The Lord bound him so he could not. (put not forth thine hand.)

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Bladerunner · Jan 13, 2017

Persuaded said:

Sorry...but in Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

one week of 7 years. and in the midst (1/2) of the week (3 1/2 years) Keep in mind who is telling Daniel this....Gabriel

**********************

Daniel 12:12-11....." And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The problem with this is that we really DO NOT know when the 1290 days started. Is it a thirty day period before the beginning of the last 3 1/2 years or is it added onto the 1260 days giving the people of Israel to possibly clean and make ready a restart of sacrifices,,,maybe repair the temple....or build an altar......?

The bottom Line here is We Just Do Not Know..The Bible is not specific enough here for me to say.

Rev 12:12... "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days".

Does the 1335 days start prior to the 1260 days or are these days added to the 1290 days above to allow people/nations to gather in Israel for the beginning of the Millennium.

and/or

what does it mean by "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the...."

There is nothing in the Bible that gives with any degree certainty what this verse actually means.

We Just Do Not Know at this time.

Having said that, everyone has an opinion on what it is but for myself as a literalist, the Bible does not tell us about these verses. I am sure that some of our spirit people in here will be able to weave it in and around a good story to fit their agenda or beliefs.

I Can Not!

How long is the tribulation?

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member