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[JosephsDreams]

Here's what Dr. Fuhrman says about coconut oil and other oils.

I do not think those old studies are relevant. They do not compare the use of coconut oil to the same diet without oil, they compare coconut oil to other oils, like corn oil or animal fats. In other words, adding coconut oil to a healthy diet gives it a lower nutrient per calorie density, the opposite of what you would want to achieve to promote longevity.

In other words, we know whole nuts or seeds, not flax oil or walnut oil are the healthiest way to get our fats. What if we did a study comparing fat from whole walnuts to coconut oil. It would be a no contest. Oil is oil. 120 calories of low nutrient fat per tablespoon that is absorbed rapidly.

The argument here for me is not whether on oil is marginally better than another, but if oil in general is a good food to advocate people use on a regular or substantial basis, when we know nuts and seeds (not oil) have huge health benefits.

Again, I think you have boxed yourself in. The studies about coconut oil are not old. I don't know why you say that..Why are you ignoring all the studies and info? Coconut is a nutrient dense food. I know Fuhrman is into that paradigm, which is fine. But again, not to the extreme of dogma and ignoring proven information. Did you not read my post about the Living Foods Institute? There no one is comparing oils with oils. They are using coconut oil exclusively, with great results. Go with what works, not a self imposed dogmatic cage.

 

[mar09]

This is not a very technical reply, as there are many things i cannot comprehend-- or even remember esp when there are so many conflicting studies and reports. But as a simple observer of things around, i did think at some time, why would God give so many coconut trees and rice fields in these parts (for we see them everywhere each time we travel), or dates and other such trees and palms in the dessert, wheat, grapes, olives, even fish etc in such and such places? They must be good.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Well Mar, everything you mentioned is a big improvement over the SAD and are generally healthy foods. Especially more so then lard, an animal product, which no one that calls him or her self a vegan can be eating.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

What is wrong with soya milk, gluten and tofu? I don't think it's true that soya milk can cause hormonal imbalance in women. There is nothing healthy left to eat so we might as well eat,drink anything and be merry for tomorrow we will die.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

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[Desertsrose]

I read the China Study by T. Colin Campbell many years ago.
It does not disprove what I am saying. I believe on erring on the side of caution.
.Why would you tempt fate? At best soy is neutral, and I am being kind to soy when I say that. Nothing good can come from the soy, only harm. So why not just drop it?
Can't you drink nut milk?

The China Study disagrees with you, that's why I asked if you read it or not. Dr. Fuhrman also disagrees with you as well as do many doctors of nutrition. Soy in fact is very healthy. You may want to give this a read.

[h=1]Don’t Fall for the Myths About Soy[/h][HR][/HR]

Contrary to the negative soy information floating about in today’s technological world, the scientific consensus shows soy is essentially beneficial. Actually, soy is the subject of some of the worst health misinformation on the internet. We need to tune out this misinformation and follow the science. Greater intake of soy foods is linked to a decrease in the risk of breast cancer, prostate cancer, and cardiovascular disease.1,2
[h=2]Soy and estrogen (the primary female sex hormone)[/h]Soy contains phytoestrogens (“plant estrogens”) called isoflavones which are said to be weak estrogens, but it’s actually more complicated than that. Isoflavones have both estrogenic and anti-estrogenic effects. . The evidence suggests that, because of their complex relationship with different estrogen receptors, soy isoflavones have beneficial anti-estrogenic effects in breast tissue while also having beneficial estrogen-mimicking effects in bone tissue.1,3
[h=2]Does soy promote breast cancer?[/h]No. Since estrogen causes breast cancer cells to proliferate, and cumulative estrogen exposure increases breast cancer risk, there was an early theory that there might be a link between soy foods and breast cancer. At that time, however, in Asian countries, where soy was a staple food, breast cancer rates were much lower than those in the United States. This paradox launched hundreds of studies. The results of some individual studies were neutral, and, importantly, no studies in humans have suggested an increase in breast cancer risk; most show a decrease.
Overall, the research suggests that soy intake helps to protect against initial breast cancer development (especially postmenopausal breast cancer), breast cancer recurrence, and breast cancer mortality.4-6 There is no more soy breast cancer controversy.
Important to note: soy appears to be most protective when eaten during adolescence, when breast tissue is most sensitive to influences from the diet and environment.7
[h=2]Does soy reduce the risk of other cancers?[/h]Yes. Soy isoflavones have additional anti-cancer effects.8 In a 2009 meta-analysis, higher soy intake was associated with a 26 percent decrease in prostate cancer risk.9 Soy has also been linked to decreases in risk of lung, stomach, and colorectal cancers.10-12
[h=2]Do soy phytoestrogens have feminizing effects on men?[/h]No, not at reasonable levels of intake. This internet frenzy seems to be based on sensationalized reports about one rare case of a man who developed breast swelling, who had been drinking three quarts of soy milk every day for over six months. When he stopped overconsuming soy, the issue resolved.13 Of course, nobody should eat or drink that much soy; nobody should even consume that much of any one food. Even in Asian countries, where soy intake is much higher than in Western countries, three quarts of soy milk would about 7-8 times the typical isoflavone intake.14
This case is simply not relevant to people eating moderate amounts of soybeans, in edamame, tempeh or tofu, or one serving of soy milk, and scientific research documents the safety of that. A meta-analysis evaluated the data from 15 different placebo-controlled trials of soy foods, soy protein, or isoflavone supplements. The studies measured several indicators of testosterone levels, including total testosterone, free testosterone, and sex hormone binding globulin. There were no significant effects in these studies on men’s testosterone levels, estrogen levels, or sperm quality.15
Another review of the studies looking at the potential feminizing effects of soy similarly concluded that there is no cause for concern.14 Furthermore, a recent observational study on couples using in vitro fertilization found that soy food and soy isoflavone intakes were not associated with rates of successful IVF outcomes, suggesting soy intake does not have any negative effects on male fertility.16
[h=2]Does soy harm the thyroid?[/h]I address this question in detail here.
[h=2]Should we only eat fermented soy products?[/h]This is a myth, the origin of which appears to be because soybeans contain phytate. Phytate, present in legumes and grains, was once thought of as an anti-nutrient, but more recent research has found beneficial health effects of phytate, for bone health in particular.
Like in other beans, indigestible carbohydrate (fiber and resistant starch) in soybeans provides food for intestinal bacteria, and for some people fermentation of these carbohydrates in the colon may cause gas and discomfort. Fermentation of soy foods may reduce this discomfort, but you would also be reducing the beneficial prebiotic fibers.21 On the other hand, there is some evidence that we may receive some additional isoflavone benefits from fermented soy products.22
Bottom line: both unfermented (tofu, edamame, unsweetened soy milk) and fermented (tempeh) soy foods can have a place in a Nutritarian diet.
[h=2]Is soy a good protein powder option? Does soy protein raise IGF-1?[/h]Concentrated soy protein and isolated soy protein, found in many protein powders and vegetarian burgers, is not health food. These processed, fractionated and concentrated soy foods are missing much of the nutritional value from the original soybean. Supplementation with soy protein powder can increase insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) in the blood.23-26
IGF-1 is primarily elevated by animal protein, and this elevation is linked to an increased risk of cancer. ( Of all plant proteins, soy protein is the most similar to animal protein (most “complete”) in amino acid content and distribution, which is why soy protein powder is more likely to increase IGF-1 than other plant proteins (such as hemp protein powder).27 However, soy protein supplementation tends to increase IGF binding proteins along with IGF-1, and therefore may not have a significant effect on free IGF-1.25 This means soy protein powders likely have less potent effects on IGF-1 signaling than whey and other animal proteins.
[h=2]Is all soy genetically modified, even organic soy?[/h]No. The USDA’s organic standards prohibit the use of genetically modified organisms in certified organic foods. In addition, they require certified organic farmers who plant organic soybeans and have neighboring genetically modified soybeans to take appropriate, farm-specific preventive measures to avoid cross-contamination and conduct testing. Cross-pollination of non-GMO soybean plants by GMO plants is far less common than many people believe, and the assertion that all soy has been contaminated does not have the science to support it. In field trials, presence of the transgene in adjacent non-GMO soybean plants was a fraction of a percent (0.1-0.5%), and non-GMO soybean plants that were 10 meters away from the genetically modified plants showed no contamination with the transgene at all.28-30
[h=2]Which soy foods should I eat, and how much?[/h]Edamame, tempeh, and tofu are healthful foods that can be included in a Nutritarian diet with all other kinds of beans. Unsweetened soy milk without additives is useful in recipes for smoothies, salad dressings, and sauces.
The association between minimally processed soy intake and a reduction in the risk of cancers has been reported over and over again. However, keep in mind that because some is good doesn’t mean eating a soy-based diet is healthful; we should not eat lots of soybeans to the exclusion of other beans and other health-promoting foods. Two to four servings a week is reasonable. Variety of natural plants is crucial for obtaining diversity in protective phytochemicals. Avoid isolated and concentrated soy protein; eat a variety of beans such as black beans, chickpeas, and lentils; and enjoy some edamame, tofu and tempeh as well.

 

[Desertsrose]

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Looks yummy Tinkerbell!

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Looks yummy Tinkerbell!

I like to eat at vegan restaurants sometimes but I am not really a vegan because I can't resist seafood and chicken. And I will miss ice cream,pizza and chocolate, although there are also vegan versions of those but I have'nt tried them yet.

 

[HisHolly]

Maybe pure soy.. high on the GMO list

The China Study disagrees with you, that's why I asked if you read it or not. Dr. Fuhrman also disagrees with you as well as do many doctors of nutrition. Soy in fact is very healthy. You may want to give this a read.

Don’t Fall for the Myths About Soy

[HR][/HR]

Contrary to the negative soy information floating about in today’s technological world, the scientific consensus shows soy is essentially beneficial. Actually, soy is the subject of some of the worst health misinformation on the internet. We need to tune out this misinformation and follow the science. Greater intake of soy foods is linked to a decrease in the risk of breast cancer, prostate cancer, and cardiovascular disease.1,2
Soy and estrogen (the primary female sex hormone)

Soy contains phytoestrogens (“plant estrogens”) called isoflavones which are said to be weak estrogens, but it’s actually more complicated than that. Isoflavones have both estrogenic and anti-estrogenic effects. . The evidence suggests that, because of their complex relationship with different estrogen receptors, soy isoflavones have beneficial anti-estrogenic effects in breast tissue while also having beneficial estrogen-mimicking effects in bone tissue.1,3
Does soy promote breast cancer?

No. Since estrogen causes breast cancer cells to proliferate, and cumulative estrogen exposure increases breast cancer risk, there was an early theory that there might be a link between soy foods and breast cancer. At that time, however, in Asian countries, where soy was a staple food, breast cancer rates were much lower than those in the United States. This paradox launched hundreds of studies. The results of some individual studies were neutral, and, importantly, no studies in humans have suggested an increase in breast cancer risk; most show a decrease.
Overall, the research suggests that soy intake helps to protect against initial breast cancer development (especially postmenopausal breast cancer), breast cancer recurrence, and breast cancer mortality.4-6 There is no more soy breast cancer controversy.
Important to note: soy appears to be most protective when eaten during adolescence, when breast tissue is most sensitive to influences from the diet and environment.7
Does soy reduce the risk of other cancers?

Yes. Soy isoflavones have additional anti-cancer effects.8 In a 2009 meta-analysis, higher soy intake was associated with a 26 percent decrease in prostate cancer risk.9 Soy has also been linked to decreases in risk of lung, stomach, and colorectal cancers.10-12
Do soy phytoestrogens have feminizing effects on men?

No, not at reasonable levels of intake. This internet frenzy seems to be based on sensationalized reports about one rare case of a man who developed breast swelling, who had been drinking three quarts of soy milk every day for over six months. When he stopped overconsuming soy, the issue resolved.13 Of course, nobody should eat or drink that much soy; nobody should even consume that much of any one food. Even in Asian countries, where soy intake is much higher than in Western countries, three quarts of soy milk would about 7-8 times the typical isoflavone intake.14
This case is simply not relevant to people eating moderate amounts of soybeans, in edamame, tempeh or tofu, or one serving of soy milk, and scientific research documents the safety of that. A meta-analysis evaluated the data from 15 different placebo-controlled trials of soy foods, soy protein, or isoflavone supplements. The studies measured several indicators of testosterone levels, including total testosterone, free testosterone, and sex hormone binding globulin. There were no significant effects in these studies on men’s testosterone levels, estrogen levels, or sperm quality.15
Another review of the studies looking at the potential feminizing effects of soy similarly concluded that there is no cause for concern.14 Furthermore, a recent observational study on couples using in vitro fertilization found that soy food and soy isoflavone intakes were not associated with rates of successful IVF outcomes, suggesting soy intake does not have any negative effects on male fertility.16
Does soy harm the thyroid?

I address this question in detail here.
Should we only eat fermented soy products?

This is a myth, the origin of which appears to be because soybeans contain phytate. Phytate, present in legumes and grains, was once thought of as an anti-nutrient, but more recent research has found beneficial health effects of phytate, for bone health in particular.
Like in other beans, indigestible carbohydrate (fiber and resistant starch) in soybeans provides food for intestinal bacteria, and for some people fermentation of these carbohydrates in the colon may cause gas and discomfort. Fermentation of soy foods may reduce this discomfort, but you would also be reducing the beneficial prebiotic fibers.21 On the other hand, there is some evidence that we may receive some additional isoflavone benefits from fermented soy products.22
Bottom line: both unfermented (tofu, edamame, unsweetened soy milk) and fermented (tempeh) soy foods can have a place in a Nutritarian diet.
Is soy a good protein powder option? Does soy protein raise IGF-1?

Concentrated soy protein and isolated soy protein, found in many protein powders and vegetarian burgers, is not health food. These processed, fractionated and concentrated soy foods are missing much of the nutritional value from the original soybean. Supplementation with soy protein powder can increase insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) in the blood.23-26
IGF-1 is primarily elevated by animal protein, and this elevation is linked to an increased risk of cancer. ( Of all plant proteins, soy protein is the most similar to animal protein (most “complete”) in amino acid content and distribution, which is why soy protein powder is more likely to increase IGF-1 than other plant proteins (such as hemp protein powder).27 However, soy protein supplementation tends to increase IGF binding proteins along with IGF-1, and therefore may not have a significant effect on free IGF-1.25 This means soy protein powders likely have less potent effects on IGF-1 signaling than whey and other animal proteins.
Is all soy genetically modified, even organic soy?

No. The USDA’s organic standards prohibit the use of genetically modified organisms in certified organic foods. In addition, they require certified organic farmers who plant organic soybeans and have neighboring genetically modified soybeans to take appropriate, farm-specific preventive measures to avoid cross-contamination and conduct testing. Cross-pollination of non-GMO soybean plants by GMO plants is far less common than many people believe, and the assertion that all soy has been contaminated does not have the science to support it. In field trials, presence of the transgene in adjacent non-GMO soybean plants was a fraction of a percent (0.1-0.5%), and non-GMO soybean plants that were 10 meters away from the genetically modified plants showed no contamination with the transgene at all.28-30
Which soy foods should I eat, and how much?

Edamame, tempeh, and tofu are healthful foods that can be included in a Nutritarian diet with all other kinds of beans. Unsweetened soy milk without additives is useful in recipes for smoothies, salad dressings, and sauces.
The association between minimally processed soy intake and a reduction in the risk of cancers has been reported over and over again. However, keep in mind that because some is good doesn’t mean eating a soy-based diet is healthful; we should not eat lots of soybeans to the exclusion of other beans and other health-promoting foods. Two to four servings a week is reasonable. Variety of natural plants is crucial for obtaining diversity in protective phytochemicals. Avoid isolated and concentrated soy protein; eat a variety of beans such as black beans, chickpeas, and lentils; and enjoy some edamame, tofu and tempeh as well.

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi Holly,

Yes there are some foods you should only consume organic. Soy is one and corn is another.

There's also a website that puts out a list of what they call the dirty dozen. They list the 12 worst veggies and fruits that have the largest amount of pesticides and they also give the best 12 you don't have to worry about. They update the list each year.

 

[Desertsrose]

I like to eat at vegan restaurants sometimes but I am not really a vegan because I can't resist seafood and chicken. And I will miss ice cream,pizza and chocolate, although there are also vegan versions of those but I have'nt tried them yet.

I've always tried to eat healthy, but became even more careful when my total cholesterol was above 300. I did really well on a vegan diet, but have failed miserably lately.

So I still blow it now and then and allow myself to splurge one in awhile. I have found that eating healthy for me is difficult because it takes a lot more effort to eat this way and with chronic health issues, there's so many times I'm in pain or too weak or sleepy Ron lack of sleep, etc.

I try to be prepared and make extra so I can have meals in the freezer. Smoothies in the morning are easy. Also finding recipes that I really like has been a challenge. My fibromyalgia symptoms really do lessen by eating healthy and that what helps me to continue.

I like some seafood like scallops, shrimp, flounder and other fish, but I don't like lobster OT crab and clams are good if fried! . I also like chicken. Beef is okay, but I can live without it and not miss it. Bread and sweets are a weakness. I need to get back off of too much sweets. It really increases the pain from the FM and the OA. I can't truly call myself a vegan, but I do work at not eating meats, cheeses, eggs, dairy, butter, etc

On the diet I'm on it's mostly fruits, veggies, legumes, nuts, seeds, greens and mushrooms.

 

[JosephsDreams]

The China Study was published, if I recall, in the early nineties. While it does not specifically endorse soy, if my memory serves me correct, it does not list it as a healthy food either. If I recall, it just lists soy as one of many foods comprised of a healthy peasant Chinese diet. This was way before all the relatively recent studies about the cancer causing properties of soy. And how soy wrecks havoc on woman and men's hormonal systems. Remember too, in the China Study the comparisons are with SAD type diets in the Chinese cities to a lot of raw and/or vegan unprocessed foods type diets in the country.
If your eating 100% vegan, and at least around 60% raw, with literally no processed foods, and have been for at least a couple of years, then maybe you might be okay with eating soy once in a great while.
But even then, if I was you, I would not risk it. Why take a chance, unless you like to gamble.

Regardless, in the world of modern nutrition, the era China Study came out in is akin to the nutritional dark ages in some ways. Sorta comparable to where we were then with computers to where we are now. Are you still using your 1993 computer? Since then there is a lot of previously unknown info about the dangers of soy. You can ignore them as you seem also to be doing with the benefits of coconut oil, if you like. I don't know why, but you seem to use some out dated info in regards to how you structure your diet.

Also you should be concerned more with your HDL then you cholesterol numbers. If your HDL is over 65, the chances of you having a heart attack are nil, no matter what your cholesterol is.

All I can do is put the info put there. I will not re hash this anymore. Do as you like.
A lot of foods look tasty, tempting to the eye. Many people have emotional psychological food cravings that over ride their knowledge and health concerns. I do empathize, food can be very addicting. However, taste and presentation is not the determining factor in how your body views certain foods.

If it was, we would not need a health care system in this country.

May you be blessed in health.

 

[mar09]

What is wrong with soya milk, gluten and tofu? I don't think it's true that soya milk can cause hormonal imbalance in women. There is nothing healthy left to eat so we might as well eat,drink anything and be merry for tomorrow we will die.

Actually i like soymilk and tofu, also taho=). At some time someone said the soy we have are mostly imported (and hence gmo?) so i was a bit turned off. but i still have them about once a week.

 

[Jrey]

Thought this thread would have more recipes :/ I need more suggestions for vegans..

 

[JosephsDreams]

There's tons of them online.