Worried about hell?

[Magenta]

Of all the false doctrines of orthodox Christendom, or any other system of religious speculation, surely it can be safely said that the hideous conception of eternal excruciating agony for nine-tenths of the human race in the flames of hell has been the most destructive of faith in God and belief in the Bible -- the most productive of atheism and skepticism.

There is no greater blasphemy or perversion of Scripture than to attribute such characteristics to God.

True indeed, He reveals Himself as a God of justice and vengeance upon the wicked and disobedient, and His firm declared purpose is to bring every evil work into remembrance and to pour just retribution upon the ungodly.

But He is never portrayed in Scripture as a merciless fiend who delights in the wanton and purposeless eternal torture of His Own creatures.

We are told, on the contrary, that in the great coming day of judgment, the wicked shall, according to their deserts, receive few or many stripes with shame and contempt, and that the end of them all is eternal destruction -- a complete blotting out -- a consuming into smoke and ashes.

The conception of eternal intense torture for the vast majority of mankind, with the few redeemed forever feasting their eyes on the scene with pitiless satisfaction, is so hideous and monstrous that it is difficult to think any rational mind has ever believed it.
*
Satan's first lie told over and over again: Ye shall not surely die.

Whereas over and over again we are told explicitly that the wages of sin is death, and that those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life pass into the second death. God explicitly says it never entered into His mind to burn people. It is an abomination to Him and yet people promote it.
*
HELL

THE original and root meaning of the English word "hell" is a "covered, hidden, concealed, or secret place." As a verb, to hell or to hele is given in Webster to mean "to cover, conceal, or keep secret," and it is still used in this sense in some parts of England, as to hele a house with a roof, or to hele seeds by covering them.

​

But this word, like many others, has unfortunately acquired a false ecclesiastical color and meaning.​

​

USE IN COMMON VERSION

THE word "hell" occurs in our common version 54 times, 31 in the Old Testament and 23 in the New. It is a translation of 4 different words in the original, one (Sheol) in the Old, and three (Hades, Gehenna, Tartaros) in the New.

The last, Tartaros, occurs but once (2 Pet. 2:4).

Gehenna appears 12 times, it is always translated "hell," and
it is always connected with burning and corruption.

Sheol and Hades, the other two, are synonymous terms, as will be demonstrated, and altogether occur 76 times. 41 times they are translated hell, 32 times grave, and 3 times pit.

While Sheol, Hades and Tartaros refer to the same place or state, Gehenna is entirely different in meaning.

​

SHEOL

SHEOL is a term for the place of the dead in general, and for this reason "hell" in its original and uncorrupted meaning is a better word for sheol than "grave" is.

"Grave" primarily means the specific place of a particular corpse or corpses. The Hebrew for this is geber, as --

• "My grave (geber) which I digged for me" (Gen. 50:5).
• "The king wept at the grave (geber) of Abner" (2 Sam. 3:32).

On the other hand, sheol in the Hebrew and "hell" in its primary meaning are general terms as (Psa. 6:5) --

• "In the grave (sheol) who shall give Thee thanks?"
• "Hell (sheol) and destruction are never full" (Prov. 27:20).

However, while "grave" used as a general term will well fit all passages where sheol occurs, "hell" in the popular sense would be absurd in some places and would immediately reveal the popular error. For example, where Jacob says (Gen. 37:35) --

• "I will go down into sheol unto my son mourning."

And where Job says (14:13) --

• "O that Thou wouldest hide me in sheol."

It is not to be supposed that either Jacob or Job anticipated or hoped to go to eternal torment.

In all the 65 places where sheol is found, there is not one that gives any countenance to the idea of a place of burning torment of the damned. It is always in the sense of the general hidden state of the dead -- all the dead -- good and bad alike.

And not only is sheol used as the resting place of all the dead indiscriminately, but we have specific mention of righteousness and approved men going there and expecting to go there.

We have seen this of Jacob and Job. Also David (Psa. 88:3), Hezekiah (Isa. 38:10), Christ (Psa. 16:10; Acts 2:31; 3:15), and all the faithful (compare Hos. 13:14 with 1 Cor. 15:54-56).

Sheol is a place of silence --

• "Let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in sheol" (Psa. 31:17).
  
  "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" (Psa. 115:17).

There is no remembrance there (Psa. 6:5) --

• "In death there is no remembrance of Thee, in sheol who shall give Thee thanks?"

Sheol is "in the dust" and there we "rest together" "in darkness" (Job 17:13-16). Beauty is consumed there (Psa. 49:14). There is no work or knowledge there --

• "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in sheol whither thou goest" (Ecc. 9:10).

It is dark there, and is called the "land of forgetfulness," and "destruction" --

• "Wilt Thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise Thee?"
  
  "Shall Thy lovingkindness be declared in sheol? Or Thy faithfulness in destruction?"
  
  "Shall Thy wonders be known in the dark? And Thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?" (Psa. 88:10-12). Hell is the GRAVE

 

[Magenta]

THE STATE OF THE DEAD

What we are told elsewhere concerning the state of the dead fully harmonizes with what we have learned about sheol. Death is always associated with oblivion, corruption, dissolution, returning to the dust, passing away as a shadow, the end of thought, knowledge, activity or memory.

Consider what Job says of the state of the dead and see how IMPOSSIBLE it is to harmonize with it the tradition of reward or punishment at death --

"But man dieth and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost (gava -- expires), and where is he?

As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: so man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their SLEEP" (Job 14:10-15).

Where is heavenly bliss or torment? He continues --

• "O that Thou wouldest hide me in sheol, that Thou wouldest keep me secret, until Thy wrath be passed, that Thou wouldest appoint me a set time and remember me!"

In his affliction, he looked forward to the unconscious, peaceful rest in sheol until the day of resurrection and judgment. He had no illusions about sheol or hell being a place of fiery torment. He knew that there the wicked cease from troubling and the weary are at rest, they lie still and are quiet together, for he says (Job 3:11-19) --

• "Why died I not from the womb? why did I not expire (gava) when I came out of the belly? Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
  
• "For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest, with kings and counsellors of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves: or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
  
• "Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been: as infants which never saw light.
  
• "There the wicked cease from troubling and there the weary be at rest. There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor. The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master."

Such is the great silent congregation of the dead, all together in one sleeping host: kings, counsellors, princes, still-born infants, the wicked, the weary, the prisoners, the small, the great, the servant and master. And of them all the preacher says (Eccl. 9:5) --

• "The living know that they shall die, but THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING."
  "In death there is no remembrance of Thee (Psa. 6:5).
  "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" (Psa. 115:17).

***********
As to any part of man continuing in consciousness after death, the Scriptures rule out any such theory.

All the terms that are used in Hebrew to define the element of life or spirit or breath in man are similarly employed with respect to animals --

Nephesh -- "soul, life, body, or person"
Chayiah -- life abstractly considered"
Nephesh chayiah -- "living soul or creatures"
Ruach -- "breath or spirit" and
Neshamah -- "breath."

All these terms are applied to animals just as to man. And of both the preacher says (Eccl. 3:19) --

• "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts . . . as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath (ruach)."

And what is "death" in the one case is "death" in the other -- the opposite of life, the absence of all life, and of all the things that make up life -- vitality, action, knowledge, sensation, emotion, consciousness.

Death is darkness, silence, forgetfulness, corruption, dissolution, smoke, ashes, dust, oblivion --

• "All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again."

All through the Scriptures the picture is the same --

• "Man goeth to his long home, the mourners go about the streets . . . then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (ruach -- breath) shall return unto God Who gave it" (Eccl. 12:5-7).
  "His breath (same word -- ruach) goeth forth, he returneth to his earth: in that very day his thoughts perish" (Psa. 146:4).
  "Thou takest away their breath (ruach) they (the animals -- see context) die, and return to their dust" (Psa. 104:29).

We know the common, simple meaning of death. We use the word without any difficulty, and we use it of animals just the same as of humans.

Again Paul, when comforting the Thessalonians concerning those who had died, does not say that they are in heaven in bliss and full consciousness as all the clergy tell us, and that the living will go soon to join them there.

He never mentions anything like this, strangely enough, but he says, on the very CONTRARY (1 Thess. 4:13-18), that the dead in Christ are ASLEEP, and that at the coming of Christ they will arise from that condition to join the living in his presence.

And many times we find Jesus, Paul, and others in Scripture, speaking of the dead as being asleep, and not only just asleep, but "asleep in the dust of the earth" (Dan. 12:2). How can this possibly be if they are wide awake in heaven or even wider awake in hell?

​

DEATH, NOT TORTURE, IS THE PUNISHMENT OF SIN

Such is death, and the Scriptures declare repeatedly that it is death that is the great penalty for sin. Right from the beginning, death is the sentence, and the wording of that sentence as originally given shows clearly what is meant. God said to Adam as a consequence of his disobedience (Gen. 2:17) --

• "Thou shalt surely DIE."

There was no threatened eternal torment, but on the contrary Adam was told (Gen. 3:19) -

• "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN UNTO THE GROUND: for out of it wast thou taken: for DUST THOU ART AND UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN."

Paul says, commenting upon the Adamic sentence (Rom. 6:23) --

• "The wages of sin is death."
  "By one man’s offence death reigned" (Rom 5:17).

And Rom. 6:21 --

• "The end of those things (the works of the flesh) is death."

-- not eternal living torment, but DEATH.

• "Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth DEATH" (James 1:15).

The penalty of death and destruction is both just and merciful, the penalty of eternal torture is neither just nor merciful.

​

THE WICKED DESTROYED, NOT TORTURED

Death, we have seen, is oblivion and destruction, and death is the wages of sin. The term "DESTROY" is often used of the fate of the wicked. After the "few or many stripes" of chastisement, the end of all is destruction.

The popular conception leaves no room for few or many stripes, for it sweepingly gives all the full maximum penalty possible, eternal agony in hell, millions and millions and millions and millions of years for the sins of so brief a lifetime, and this for the overwhelming majority of mankind, for Jesus says (Matt. 7:13) --

• "Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat.
  "And narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it."

But here again we note that in the Bible it is not eternal torment that is threatened but destruction, which is something very different.

In Matt. 25:46, Jesus says the wicked "go into everlasting punishment," and what this everlasting punishment consists of is explained by Paul (2 Thess. 1:7-9) where he says that when Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, the wicked shall be "punished with everlasting destruction." Again (Heb. 10:27) --
"Judgment and fiery indignation shall devour the adversary."
Jesus says (Matt. 10:28) that God is able to --

• "DESTROY both soul and body in Gehenna."

And Paul told the Philippians (3:19) regarding the fleshly-minded --

• "Their end is destruction."

Peter uses as strong a word as possible when he says (2 Pet. 2:12) --

• "These, as natural brute beasts . . . shall utterly perish in their own corruption."

David declares (Psa. 37:20) --

• "The wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

And Malachi 4:1 --

• "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

Psalm 145:20 --

• "The Lord preserveth all them that love Him,
• but all the wicked will He destroy." Hell is the GRAVE

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

We all have experienced hell because reading threads like these are hell....

 

[Dan58]

I've been watching that Leah Remini series on Scientology.. Hell is when the Scientologist label you a SP (suppressive person), and hound you for your crimes throughout eternity.

 

[notbythesword]

I had a relative who recently died. He was not a Christian and did not believe in God. After his sudden death, it hurt me that I didn’t do more to try and bring him to Christ. I still feel full of guilt and shame. I urge anyone who has the light in them, to put it up on a lampstand…not to cover it. You never know when it’s too late.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I had a relative who recently died. He was not a Christian and did not believe in God. After his sudden death, it hurt me that I didn’t do more to try and bring him to Christ. I still feel full of guilt and shame. I urge anyone who has the light in them, to put it up on a lampstand…not to cover it. You never know when it’s too late.

I felt the same when my brother died, but the Bible tells us that not everybody will be saved. Like you say we should put our lamp on the lampstand and leave the rest up to Holy Spirit

 

[notbythesword]

I felt the same when my brother died, but the Bible tells us that not everybody will be saved. Like you say we should put our lamp on the lampstand and leave the rest up to Holy Spirit

Yeah it was my brother too.

 

[Magenta]

I had a relative who recently died. He was not a Christian and did not believe in God. After his sudden death, it hurt me that I didn’t do more to try and bring him to Christ. I still feel full of guilt and shame. I urge anyone who has the light in them, to put it up on a lampstand…not to cover it. You never know when it’s too late.

 

[Magenta]

 

[Magenta]

 

[notbythesword]

I know that God is just and fair though. I put my faith and trust in Him. I know that how I might see things with my own limited earthly understanding, is nothing compared to the righteous judgement that comes from the almighty Lord. He is capable of judging in a just and fair manner.

 

[notbythesword]

I also know that there is no life except through the Son. I often find myself hoping that by some miracle he might have changed his mind at the last minute. I tend to think of him a lot when thinking about hell. I’ve been contemplating the nature of hell much more after his death now. It’s kind of hard not to.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Yeah it was my brother too.

Sorry to hear this friend....

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hell is the GRAVE

Your claims are easy to make Magenta, as you pay no attention to the context of scripture nor to the words that define the meaning of eternal punishment. It is something you are going to have to find out later when it is revealed to you by the one who created the punishment. You remind of those people who say "oh, I can't believe in a God that would create a place like hell." Does God need our seal of approval in order to punish sin committed against Him? After king David had committed adultery with Bathsheba and murdered Uriah, he said to God, "Against you alone have I sinned." All sin is against God, which is why it is eternal.

Life and death are both states of conscious existence, which is something you have yet to understand. The word apollumi translated destruction is defined as complete loss of well being, ruination, not annihilation or extinction.

Hebrew Sheol and Greek Hades, which are synonymous, are not referring to the grave, but to the place of departed spirits, as demonstrated below by the definition of the words:

Sheol (sheh-ole') The underworld (place to which the spirits of people descend at death)
Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates --

hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits​

Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Short Definition: Hades
Definition: Hades, the unseen world.HELPS Word-studies


86 hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.

The event of the rich man and Lazarus supports conscious, existence of the spirit/soul after death, that is unless you distort it by making it a parable in order to support your erroneous belief. Both the rich man and Lazarus die and their bodies are buried, but their spirits are found under the earth, the rich man being in torment in flame in Sheol/Hades and Lazarus in a separated area across from the place of punishment where the rich man was.

Scripture demonstrates the exact opposite of what you claim it does. You ignore words such as punishment, torment, no rest day or night, eternal, everlasting. All of which demonstrate on-going, conscious existence while being punished.

For whatever reason you have adopted this false teaching and cling to it, while ignoring the words and the contexts that demonstrate that those who die in their sins experience everlasting, on-going, punishment. You will find out the truth later, regardless of what you say now.

As to any part of man continuing in consciousness after death, the Scriptures rule out any such theory.

=========================================

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate
was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s
table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him (his spirit) to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

Lazarus and the rich man both die and yet their spirits/souls are found somewhere else. Lazarus is taken to a place of paradise and the rich man to a place of torment in flame. Either you will believe this or you will distort it by interpreting it as a parable in order to support your belief.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I also know that there is no life except through the Son. I often find myself hoping that by some miracle he might have changed his mind at the last minute. I tend to think of him a lot when thinking about hell. I’ve been contemplating the nature of hell much more after his death now. It’s kind of hard not to.

My brother hanged himself and they didn't find him for about two days. The police asked us not to look at his body because of the way he died. My mom till this day is so sad but the same thought has crossed my mind, "Maybe Lord, just maybe he asked for your Salvation (Jesus Christ) before he died". We can only hope that God's grace can be that big brother.

I feel your pain

 

[Ahwatukee]

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

According to the scriptures there's no such thing as annihilation considering even Satan will be tormented forever

You are absolutely correct PrynceNY. And the same fate that Satan, the beast and the false prophet are going to suffer, will be the same for all those whose names are not found written in the book of life at the great white throne judgment.

Those who claim annihilation are simply ignoring the scriptural contexts and the Hebrew and Greek words that describe everlasting punishment, while at the same time erroneously claiming that scripture supports their claim.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Magenta's private interpretation:

SHEOL

SHEOL is a term for the place of the dead in general, and for this reason "hell" in its original and uncorrupted meaning is a better word for sheol than "grave" is.​

The true interpretation:

hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.

See the Rich man and Lazarus - Luke 16:19. Read it as a literal event Magenta. Don't immediately dismiss it as a parable.

​

 

[DiscipleDave]

If you are, this thread is for you.

Firstly let me say that whats known about hell is an incomplete concept, Jesus used very figurative language to explain hell. But I take the hint, you don't want to end up there.

Why?

Because it's the end of the line, the garbage heap where damaged souls are disassembled. If you end up there, your not going to be a humane soul, more like an empty dark vessel.

A corrupted soul may see itself as still human (A good human) but the assembly of God won't.

James said hell was deep blackness, where all the lights go out.

The old testament says hell is utter destruction.

Jesus said "Where the worm never die"

Are dead souls eaten or absorbed back into reusable energy?

Amen.

Hell is not yet created, but will be created in the end. As long as satan roams free, and demons have free reign on Earth, Hell does not yet exist. When it is time for satan, demons, and all those that choose to live in sin, to be cast into prison, is when Hell will be created. Hell is an eternal holding place that will be created for satan and all those who choose to obey him. As long as satan is the god of this world, and roams the Earth to devour, he is not bound in Hell. As i said, Hell will be created in the Future.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Magenta]

Whenever mentioning Hell it's also key to mention that God desires for no one to go there. He has patience & mercy upon people to turn to him & avoid going there.

Ezekiel 18:23 - Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

I shall add that to my list, thank you so much

 

[Magenta]

Magenta's private interpretation:

You should stop bearing false witness about me.

[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]The true interpretation:
hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.

See the Rich man and Lazarus - Luke 16:19. Read it as a literal event Magenta. Don't immediately dismiss it as a parable.
[/INDENT]

You could also stop pretending I have not covered Hades in other places.