I don't remember Peter, Paul, James, John, even Jesus preaching about legalism. Jesus and the others taught people not to be hypocrites by manipulating the word of God so as to change the meaning and striving to force people to conform to their manipulations. God is a legal God...IF you keep my commandments, makes a clear statement that some things are legal and some things are not legal for a Christian. If you are a Christian you are under legal restraint, it is part of the Christian walk, there are things legal for a Christian and there are things illegal for a Christian. It is legal for me to go to the city park, drink some tea and witness to people I meet there. It is not legal for me to go to a bar, have a alcoholic drink, look at the girls, and witness to people. One is legal and one is illegal...the whole Christian walk is choosing the legal over the illegal, so how can we say that legalism is wrong? A hypocritical lifestyle is wrong, however the use of legalism is not a good word to use as something to come against...since God is a legal God and does not teach against being legal.
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A eye for a eye tooth for tooth is that not legalism? To justify ones action because of another's action is a form imo of legalism.
Jesus asked us to turn the other cheek. If I were to treat others as they treated me then that justifies my action.
But if I treat others as Jesus treats me I am not under the law but grace.
Do you want man's approval or God's?
We are born again to be a living witness that the cheek can be turned, that love can over turn evil, that a thorn in the flesh can be endured, that the love of Christ is real. There is no greater calling.
Jesus asked us to turn the other cheek. If I were to treat others as they treated me then that justifies my action.
But if I treat others as Jesus treats me I am not under the law but grace.
Do you want man's approval or God's?
We are born again to be a living witness that the cheek can be turned, that love can over turn evil, that a thorn in the flesh can be endured, that the love of Christ is real. There is no greater calling.
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Of all people Jim Carrey quoted this....I wish that everyone would become rich and famous so they would know that's not the answer.
Why is it so hard for people to be kind and loving to one another? We have to be taught how to love. We are so lost in self it's really sickening.
I used to make the mistake of comparing myself with others, and I would pick the worst person I knew so that I wouldn't look bad. The holy spirit told me to compare myself with Jesus, oh my what a eye opener that was.
That's what keeps me in check as I keep asking...how did you do it Lord...how can I.
All the people I hurt all the stupid things I've said and done. Sometime it comes back to haunt me. In my darkest moment I cried and no one came to help me ...save one...Jesus. He walks me through the pain I caused...the hurt I caused, the shame I caused. He has made my heart sorry. I've placed many tears in the bottle that he has. I'm sure there will be many more.
Don't know where this came from or why I'm saying this but ....good nite.
Why is it so hard for people to be kind and loving to one another? We have to be taught how to love. We are so lost in self it's really sickening.
I used to make the mistake of comparing myself with others, and I would pick the worst person I knew so that I wouldn't look bad. The holy spirit told me to compare myself with Jesus, oh my what a eye opener that was.
That's what keeps me in check as I keep asking...how did you do it Lord...how can I.
All the people I hurt all the stupid things I've said and done. Sometime it comes back to haunt me. In my darkest moment I cried and no one came to help me ...save one...Jesus. He walks me through the pain I caused...the hurt I caused, the shame I caused. He has made my heart sorry. I've placed many tears in the bottle that he has. I'm sure there will be many more.
Don't know where this came from or why I'm saying this but ....good nite.
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LOL..me too! Fridays are my "refeed" days and it is time for ice cream. I eat clean all week and then Friday is my time to carb up! I love to say to the Lord. "what are we going to eat today?" And He says back - "What ever we want!" I actually think He is more excited about this day than I am.
That's one of the things I love about being the Lord - He's not religious.
Today we are having coffee crisp ice cream with heated chocolate chip cookies on it. Butter tarts and the rest is still a mystery. Fridays are like winning a trip to Hawaii!...lol
That's one of the things I love about being the Lord - He's not religious.
Today we are having coffee crisp ice cream with heated chocolate chip cookies on it. Butter tarts and the rest is still a mystery. Fridays are like winning a trip to Hawaii!...lol
A
It's not illegal to go to a bar, drink and look at girls. It is more what is in your heart when you drink, and what do you think when you look at the girls.
Do you drink until you get drunk?
Do you lust after the girls you look at?
Some people are mature enough to go to a bar and witness to people there. Most may not be..
However Paul became whoever he needed to be to reach people where they are.
You can't judge people by outward appearances.
Legalismis misuse of the law. Making it into a list of right and wrong to maintain your salvation is legalism.
Legalism would be a father who tells his daughter that she should "honor your mother and father" while he takes her.
The law was created to lead people to Christ.
Do you drink until you get drunk?
Do you lust after the girls you look at?
Some people are mature enough to go to a bar and witness to people there. Most may not be..
However Paul became whoever he needed to be to reach people where they are.
You can't judge people by outward appearances.
Legalismis misuse of the law. Making it into a list of right and wrong to maintain your salvation is legalism.
Legalism would be a father who tells his daughter that she should "honor your mother and father" while he takes her.
The law was created to lead people to Christ.
This most likely means that they have come to worship Jesus over God. God is the first love because Jesus was not known by such a name at this time, Jesus was there because he has been since the beginning but God is the First and Foremost! I am not aware of Jesus strictly saying don't worship me (He definitely never said to worship Him, but remember Him) but He did ride in on a donkey with people waving palms and stuff. He knew that people were going to want to worship Him so maybe this was His way of humbling himself so he didn't get proud in the moment. I don't see how the first love scenario could go any other way than this honestly and there are people who seem to forget that there is only one OG in Jesus' kingdom. Jesus is the way the truth and the life, but God is the giver and the taker of life. Worship HIM, and let Jesus be your prayer mediator and your Savior, tell people about your testimony to plant the seed and it will grow if tended to. God has the biggest green thumb you have never seen!
I am open to discussion, I just figured I'd throw my two seeds, i mean sense, i mean cents... in there before i scrolled too far down.
I am open to discussion, I just figured I'd throw my two seeds, i mean sense, i mean cents... in there before i scrolled too far down.
A
Legalism is adding anything to the Gospel: Jesus died for your sins upon the Cross, repent and have faith towards God concerning the remission of your sins by the blood of the Lamb, receive the HOLY Spirit and be saved.
Legalism says you have to earn God's love.
The Gospel says God gives His love freely and underservedly to His born again children.
Legalism is concerned with outward appearances.
God looks at inward motives.
Legalism condemns,makes them feel guilty, depressed and worthless.
God convicts/convince people and teaches them the right way and reminds them they are loved.
Legalism says you have to earn God's love.
The Gospel says God gives His love freely and underservedly to His born again children.
Legalism is concerned with outward appearances.
God looks at inward motives.
Legalism condemns,makes them feel guilty, depressed and worthless.
God convicts/convince people and teaches them the right way and reminds them they are loved.
The work of the spirit is to teach us about God and Jesus, and lead us in the
things of the Kingdom.
Sin is the problem or blockages to the conversation or flow of blessing.
If a river gets blocked, no water flows. Sin does this to our spiritual lives.
So ofcourse the Lord has to deal with and resolve our sin before we can
be ministered to. But I get the feeling people are often so far from the
position of purity and being clean, this feels like an impossible task.
The problem is with us and not God if we never get beyond our sense of
failure and defeat, when He has provided the victory and power.
things of the Kingdom.
Sin is the problem or blockages to the conversation or flow of blessing.
If a river gets blocked, no water flows. Sin does this to our spiritual lives.
So ofcourse the Lord has to deal with and resolve our sin before we can
be ministered to. But I get the feeling people are often so far from the
position of purity and being clean, this feels like an impossible task.
The problem is with us and not God if we never get beyond our sense of
failure and defeat, when He has provided the victory and power.
While I agree with you... statements about legalism seem to bash people who want to live as a saint or priest would. I try not to say anything that would discourage a man to try and live as a Nazarite, I personally think it's a good thing from time to time. It helps crucify the flesh, the in spiritual sense. It is good to kill pride and to humble oneself on the daily or even a moment to moment basis. Pride goes before destruction, it refuses righteous instruction. The meek will inherit, not the prideful.
There is nothing wrong with the law per say, I believe it is Christ who leads people back to the law after being born again. It is people that try to live by the law by their own will alone that are in the wrong.
This is like telling oneself to not picture a polka dot zebra or a pink elephant. The more you try to do it on your own the more you will stumble and do that which you don't want to do because our righteousness is as rags compared to Christ. Read this passage very carefully so that there is no confusion then read it again slower. We too should delight in the law of God after the inward man, your mind, the man greater than the sin which is left in his members that try to get you to sin. To please your senses and tickle that flesh of yours. Why not use those senses for the Lord! Praise God with them, get out and smell the roses instead of the perfume, get out and enjoy God's creation instead of man's creation. Be one with God and use your body to glorify He alone and not sin that still dwells in us. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. I leave you with the passage that fits best with my rant here:
Romans 7 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is nothing wrong with the law per say, I believe it is Christ who leads people back to the law after being born again. It is people that try to live by the law by their own will alone that are in the wrong.
This is like telling oneself to not picture a polka dot zebra or a pink elephant. The more you try to do it on your own the more you will stumble and do that which you don't want to do because our righteousness is as rags compared to Christ. Read this passage very carefully so that there is no confusion then read it again slower. We too should delight in the law of God after the inward man, your mind, the man greater than the sin which is left in his members that try to get you to sin. To please your senses and tickle that flesh of yours. Why not use those senses for the Lord! Praise God with them, get out and smell the roses instead of the perfume, get out and enjoy God's creation instead of man's creation. Be one with God and use your body to glorify He alone and not sin that still dwells in us. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. I leave you with the passage that fits best with my rant here:
Romans 7 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Legalism is what you have before you meet Christ. Without the cross and love working
in an open heart we are just vessels bouncing around without a reference. So the law
provides a framework, a way of measuring I am ok or I am failed.
How can we know we are accepted? By being good, trying our best, doing all we can to
build up the credits so they outweigh the evil. One of the apocrapha books shows
Abraham arguing with heaven about his balance of good and evil in his life.
When Christ breaks into your life, and shows firstly we are forever lost, and He is forever
the provider of life, and forgiveness, the cross demonstrates our acceptance. I remember
God breaking down my life and conforming to the world, and showing me how little I would do
outside this, yet He died for me, in a controlled, determined way, knowing everything about
the price and how hard it was, yet this was His choice.
It is this that breaks legalism, takes away its sting, its hold, its edge, its way in.
But if guilt, a bad conscience, an awareness of failure persist, because Christ is not actually
being trusted, then one is still caught in legalism. It is almost a proof of knowing Christ when
our sins and guilt are washed away, and a love and desire to walk in His ways is planted deep
within us.
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
1 Cor 4:4
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:5
They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience.
1 Tim 3:9
let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:22
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,....who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:1=4
So many quote the verse about condemnation, not realising it is because we are
forgiven and cleansed and walk according to the Spirit.
If you walk according the flesh, the rightly you will feel condemnation from the Holy
Spirit because of ones active, willful sin. For this not to be so denies purity, holiness
and the ministry of God to our hearts.
For believers who continue in sin, how can they explain the promises, yet their
conscience and heart condemns them. So it must be satan, tempting them back
to legalism, rather than God calling them to walk in conformity to the Spirit.
in an open heart we are just vessels bouncing around without a reference. So the law
provides a framework, a way of measuring I am ok or I am failed.
How can we know we are accepted? By being good, trying our best, doing all we can to
build up the credits so they outweigh the evil. One of the apocrapha books shows
Abraham arguing with heaven about his balance of good and evil in his life.
When Christ breaks into your life, and shows firstly we are forever lost, and He is forever
the provider of life, and forgiveness, the cross demonstrates our acceptance. I remember
God breaking down my life and conforming to the world, and showing me how little I would do
outside this, yet He died for me, in a controlled, determined way, knowing everything about
the price and how hard it was, yet this was His choice.
It is this that breaks legalism, takes away its sting, its hold, its edge, its way in.
But if guilt, a bad conscience, an awareness of failure persist, because Christ is not actually
being trusted, then one is still caught in legalism. It is almost a proof of knowing Christ when
our sins and guilt are washed away, and a love and desire to walk in His ways is planted deep
within us.
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
1 Cor 4:4
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:5
They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience.
1 Tim 3:9
let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:22
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,....who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:1=4
So many quote the verse about condemnation, not realising it is because we are
forgiven and cleansed and walk according to the Spirit.
If you walk according the flesh, the rightly you will feel condemnation from the Holy
Spirit because of ones active, willful sin. For this not to be so denies purity, holiness
and the ministry of God to our hearts.
For believers who continue in sin, how can they explain the promises, yet their
conscience and heart condemns them. So it must be satan, tempting them back
to legalism, rather than God calling them to walk in conformity to the Spirit.
Why are there still people who are well endowed in the Word still believing that every person who follows the law because they love God is actually following it because they are trying to gain God's love and forsake grace?
Why can't people get this bologna out of their minds? How is it so hard to believe that somebody can turn their entire life over, I MEAN EVERYTHING! Over to God and try to live by the laws written in the instruction manual. People like that drive me nuts that just can't see how a person would love God so much that they want to follow His laws. I am nothing! I am a servant of my God, Jesus is the way I get through my life. What else do I have to say to prove that I serve God? I don't like people picking apart my fruit looking for seeds when that is not what i am doing in this thread... i really don't understand where some people are coming from.
~SIGH~
*With Love, peace, and blessings from above.
Why can't people get this bologna out of their minds? How is it so hard to believe that somebody can turn their entire life over, I MEAN EVERYTHING! Over to God and try to live by the laws written in the instruction manual. People like that drive me nuts that just can't see how a person would love God so much that they want to follow His laws. I am nothing! I am a servant of my God, Jesus is the way I get through my life. What else do I have to say to prove that I serve God? I don't like people picking apart my fruit looking for seeds when that is not what i am doing in this thread... i really don't understand where some people are coming from.
~SIGH~
*With Love, peace, and blessings from above.
A
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ing-spiritual-discernment-licentiousness.html
Legalism is often an extreme reaction to licentiousness and visa versa.
However each has their own pitfalls.
Legalism is often an extreme reaction to licentiousness and visa versa.
However each has their own pitfalls.
I think Jesus did talk about legalism. 
When He said to them that they tithed down to the last exquisite amount but ignored the laws that have to do with mercy and justice for people. He would have been more pleased if they got the weightier matters right but failed in the smaller.
And He was discussing dead legalism when He talked about obeying commands as they were taught by their fathers but only in a dead legalistic way - outwardly - while inwardly they were doing those things in their heart (murder, adultery, etc.)
When He said to them that they tithed down to the last exquisite amount but ignored the laws that have to do with mercy and justice for people. He would have been more pleased if they got the weightier matters right but failed in the smaller.
And He was discussing dead legalism when He talked about obeying commands as they were taught by their fathers but only in a dead legalistic way - outwardly - while inwardly they were doing those things in their heart (murder, adultery, etc.)
A
I asked you a question about your beliefs. Its called conversation.
I happen to ask most people their beliefs. If that is considered putting folks through the wringer, then I do it to most people.
Helps me understand where people are coming from when they speak. Makes miscommunication decrease.
If you prefer I can quit talking to you.
I happen to ask most people their beliefs. If that is considered putting folks through the wringer, then I do it to most people.
Helps me understand where people are coming from when they speak. Makes miscommunication decrease.
If you prefer I can quit talking to you.