Let them Eat MEAT! Learning spiritual discernment: legalism

[PeterJens]

If you are sad, it is because you are thinking sad thoughts. If you are happy, it is because you are thinking happy thoughts. Your emotions respond to what you are thinking. And many times what you are thinking isn't even real, but your emotions do not know the difference between reality and fantasy. Which is why it is a dangerous thing to live guided by your emotions.

You are making an interesting connection. As far as scientists understand our brains
we have two systems, factual or information memory and emotional memory.
People with various disorders can show they remember emotions connected with a person or
situation but not the facts.

And some extreme illnesses it is the emotion which seeks for a rational explanation as to
why you are feeling something. People will invent a logical link even when one does not
exist.

So both our emotions and our intellect work together and we can choose combinations
of these things to achieve objectives.

What is often a mistake is to ignore either ingredient, because both are always present,
it is just denying ones own actual realities, which leads to unhealthy delusions and tensions.

A classic example is if someone is in a terrible marriage, they sometimes have to get out
of the situation to realise its real value before everything is destroyed beyond repair.

In spiritual terms, being angry with a situation is fine, you can begin to work through it,
but faking where you are, denies everything and you loose touch with the truth.
So much of our faith is grounded on our experience and fine decisions about love, hate,
good, bad, happy, sad, knowing the presence of God and His blessing or being completely
blank. Most of our lives would be empty without this emotional adventure.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is true...
But our emotions come from our thoughts too, as peter says...
You can clearly see this is so...our emotions are based on what we believe...
So we will have problems in our emotions until our mind begins to be renewed and the emotions go in their proper pecking order.

Here is an excellent 12 minute video talking about "feelings vs emotions". I loved it and it made perfect sense to me.

NOTE: Legalism free video below....

[video=youtube;hNE1duxDRdA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNE1duxDRdA[/video]

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You are making an interesting connection. As far as scientists understand our brains
we have two systems, factual or information memory and emotional memory.
People with various disorders can show they remember emotions connected with a person or
situation but not the facts.

And some extreme illnesses it is the emotion which seeks for a rational explanation as to
why you are feeling something. People will invent a logical link even when one does not
exist.

So both our emotions and our intellect work together and we can choose combinations
of these things to achieve objectives.

What is often a mistake is to ignore either ingredient, because both are always present,
it is just denying ones own actual realities, which leads to unhealthy delusions and tensions.

A classic example is if someone is in a terrible marriage, they sometimes have to get out
of the situation to realise its real value before everything is destroyed beyond repair.

In spiritual terms, being angry with a situation is fine, you can begin to work through it,
but faking where you are, denies everything and you loose touch with the truth.
So much of our faith is grounded on our experience and fine decisions about love, hate,
good, bad, happy, sad, knowing the presence of God and His blessing or being completely
blank. Most of our lives would be empty without this emotional adventure.

Yes, faking it is not the solution. Being angry and pretending you aren't is not the solution. Admitting the truth that you are angry is the beginning step to the solution. Admitting what's actually going on in your heart. If you cover up the wrong things your heart is doing, this is to put on fig leaves to cover up the truth.

God isn't angry if we are having anger problems with someone. He is angry if we try to cover up the truth of what's going on.

 

[Stephen63]

Why are there still people who are well endowed in the Word still believing that every person who follows the law because they love God is actually following it because they are trying to gain God's love and forsake grace?

Why can't people get this bologna out of their minds? How is it so hard to believe that somebody can turn their entire life over, I MEAN EVERYTHING! Over to God and try to live by the laws written in the instruction manual. People like that drive me nuts that just can't see how a person would love God so much that they want to follow His laws. I am nothing! I am a servant of my God, Jesus is the way I get through my life. What else do I have to say to prove that I serve God? I don't like people picking apart my fruit looking for seeds when that is not what i am doing in this thread... i really don't understand where some people are coming from.
~SIGH~

*With Love, peace, and blessings from above.

I understand your dilemma, HEIsRiSen. I have felt that many times on here myself.

Understand, the problem they have is not with you, per say, but what you believe. When you are reviled & verbally persecuted, you are being treated this way for HIS name's sake.

The majority that agree against you believe in eternal security, OSAS, or Hypergrace. All of these believe once you accept Christ, that's it, done deal. Nothing else is required.

In order to make that religious doctrine look real good to the hearers, they paint everyone else as legalists that are always feeling guilty, ashamed, & generally unhappy with themselves. We know better.

I wish to encourage you by reminding you that indeed your name is written in Heaven because you repented of your sins & accepted Christ as your Savior & LORD. You understand the truth & refuse to be drawn away from it. Good for you!

Jesus said because they hated Him for telling the truth, they will hate you as well. This railing is evidence of your relationship with Him..... Praise the LORD!

The real clincher about these religious doctrines they believe is that they generally reject the LORDSHIP of Christ.
They accept Christ with a simple decision, but don't believe they have to bow their knees to Him as LORD & submit to Him.

How could Paul call himself a bondservant of Christ & not submit? Their only liberty is from Christ's authority.

 

[Stephen63]

One of the objectives of the book of Revelation is to call Christians in all churches, in every age, to repentance from the sin of religiosity....the substitution of our own activities for God's activities.

How Ironic! Excellent projection there, FNC!

 

[Ariel82]

"they generally reject the LORDSHIP of Christ"

That's a lie.

Okay, it's clear you have a chip on your shoulder about OSAS and hyper Grace (note a topic banned by the forum admins)....

This thread isn't about either. Only YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THEM.

It is about legalism.

Do you know what legalism is?

Apparently not.

We discuss legalism NOT as an attempt to keep people from listening to the prompting of the Holy spirit. It is tI help people distinguish between man-made doctrines and God's truth.

 

[Stephen63]

Hypocrisy, being an actor and pretender, is the inevitable result of legalism.

Innnndeeeed! Those pretending to have peaceful studies on scripture while constantly handing out bits of false doctrine & calling out those that don't agree. Hypocrisy, yes..... pretending, definitely.

 

[LaurenTM]

Innnndeeeed! Those pretending to have peaceful studies on scripture while constantly handing out bits of false doctrine & calling out those that don't agree. Hypocrisy, yes..... pretending, definitely.

I noticed you do not seem to begin your own threads

you just object to other peoples threads

why is that?

inquiring minds want to know

 

[Ariel82]

Legalism is saying unless you are dressed in a suit and tie or pretty dress, you shouldn't go to church.

Legalism prompts people to judge their neighbors instead of loving them as themselves.

Legalism prompts people to feel not good enough because they can't measure up to the standard set and makes it hard for them to see the love God has for them. It encourages people to give up and feel enslaved.

 

[Grace777x70]

"they generally reject the LORDSHIP of Christ"

That's a lie.

Okay, it's clear you have a chip on your shoulder about OSAS and hyper Grace (note a topic banned by the forum admins)....

This thread isn't about either. Only YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THEM.

It is about legalism.

Do you know what legalism is?

Apparently not.

We discuss legalism NOT as an attempt to keep people from listening to the prompting of the Holy spirit. It is tI help people distinguish between man-made doctrines and God's truth.

We can just ignore these types of posts that are being made by others and let the mods take care of it. I think your thread has brought up some good discussion amongst us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Legalism is saying unless you are dressed in a suit and tie or pretty dress, you shouldn't go to church.

Legalism prompts people to judge their neighbors instead of loving them as themselves.

Legalism prompts people to feel not good enough because they can't measure up to the standard set and makes it hard for them to see the love God has for them. It encourages people to give up and feel enslaved.

Well you know - it is a well known "fact" that God will not hear a "formal petition" unless you wear a suit while praying in your bedroom.....

 

[Ariel82]

Expressing you don't agree with what someone says or asking for people to clarify what they mean, isn't "calling people out".

It is called discussion.

I know it's hard to believe that this is a forum.
So more like a bible study Or small group than a pulpit where people preach out sermons.

The nature of a good Bible study is discussion.

Sometimes on topic. Sometimes personal.sometimes devotional.

I have been blessed to attend a few Bible studies and what I learnt was how Christians interacted with love and acceptance with one another. It didn't matter as much the topic or if everyone agreed at the end of the night. We each had the HOLY Spirit and our Bible. God could correct any misconceptions presented. It was more about the heart willing to learn.

The heart filled with love.

 

[Ariel82]

Well you know - it is a well known "fact" that God will not hear a "formal petition" unless you wear a suit while praying in your bedroom.....

Well it's a good thing I only make informal ones. My husband would look at me funny if I asked to borrow his suit.

 

[Stephen63]

I don't examine anyone's fruit but my own and those seeking power or authority over me to "teach" me their doctrines.

Most of the time I just give it all to God in prayer because I don't understand the worms eating away at folks and their fruit.

Matt 7:15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Jesus says BEWARE! Watch out for them! How can you "watch out" for them if you don't watch in the first place? We are to constantly be on our guard for them.

But, some will say this is "fruit picking" or being "fruit inspectors". Why do they not want us to watch?

If we are not careful & watching, we can be deceived & overcome easily. To stop watching for their fruit is to disarm ourselves.

Imagine walking into the midst of ravenous wolves without being able to see one..... doesn't that sound dangerous to you?

 

[Grace777x70]

Well it's a good thing I only make informal ones. My husband would look at me funny if I asked to borrow his suit.

Ya but - think of the mighty dynamic power in your prayers if you do?...

 

[Ariel82]

Legalism is saying unless you are dressed in a suit and tie or pretty dress, you shouldn't go to church.

Legalism prompts people to judge their neighbors instead of loving them as themselves.

Legalism prompts people to feel not good enough because they can't measure up to the standard set and makes it hard for them to see the love God has for them. It encourages people to give up and feel enslaved.

This is different than my normal translation, but found it interesting....

Legalism favors rich people over poor people and doesn't understand how mercy triumph over judgment.

James 2GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

Don’t Favor Rich People over Poor People
2 My brothers and sisters, practice your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ by not favoring one person over another. 2 For example, two men come to your worship service. One man is wearing gold rings and fine clothes; the other man, who is poor, is wearing shabby clothes. 3 Suppose you give special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say to him, “Please have a seat.” But you say to the poor man, “Stand over there,” or “Sit on the floor at my feet.” 4 Aren’t you discriminating against people and using a corrupt standard to make judgments?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters! Didn’t God choose poor people in the world to become rich in faith and to receive the kingdom that he promised to those who love him? 6 Yet, you show no respect to poor people. Don’t rich people oppress you and drag you into court? 7 Don’t they curse the good name of Jesus, the name that was used to bless you?

8 You are doing right if you obey this law from the highest authority: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” 9 If you favor one person over another, you’re sinning, and this law convicts you of being disobedient. 10 If someone obeys all of God’s laws except one, that person is guilty of breaking all of them. 11 After all, the one who said, “Never commit adultery,” is the same one who said, “Never murder.” If you do not commit adultery but you murder, you become a person who disobeys God’s laws.

12 Talk and act as people who are going to be judged by laws that bring freedom. 13 No mercy will be shown to those who show no mercy to others. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

[Ariel82]

Matt 7:15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Jesus says BEWARE! Watch out for them! How can you "watch out" for them if you don't watch in the first place? We are to constantly be on our guard for them.

But, some will say this is "fruit picking" or being "fruit inspectors". Why do they not want us to watch?

If we are not careful & watching, we can be deceived & overcome easily. To stop watching for their fruit is to disarm ourselves.

Imagine walking into the midst of ravenous wolves without being able to see one..... doesn't that sound dangerous to you?

No because if God leads me to walk amongst wolves, He will keep me safe from harm or call me back home to Him.

Though we walk through the shadow of death, we fear no evil for God is our Rod and our comforter.

God did not give us a spirit to fear but of power, love and a sound mind.

 

[Stephen63]

Preferring the rich over the poor isn't legalism, it's being a respecter of persons, which is a sin.

Yes, it's sinful..... but legalistic? Is every sin under the legalism category?

I certainly hope this isn't gonna be a "everything & everybody is legalistic but us" kind of thread.

 

[PeterJens]

Labels - Legalism

To simplify an argument in a propoganda war, you create polarised language.
Judaisers is a typical word. So whatever your position, the opponents get
pushed into one group, and labelled Judaisers.

Another is all evil in the world is the corruption of true faith. So religion is
evil, we know God which is real and not religion, which is fake.

Another is everything is trying to prove to God we are ok, and working for
credit points to be acceptable as heaven bound, so is legalism.

Where this often falls down is in critising symbols, ceremonies, traditions,
organisations, emotional dilemmas, theological complexities.
Religion is about God and our relationship with Him. God created symbols,
ceremonies, traditions, organistations, deals with emotional dilemmas and
has theological complexities. So to label any of this wrong, is to condemn
oneself.

So a true definition of one aspect of looking at rules and qualification, called
legalism and taking it out of the idea of good or evil, but giving it a
proper emphasis would be helpful.

So a legal reading of a woman caught in adultery is death. Jesus stopped this
by saying the condemning crowd had not right to condemn unless they were pure.
A legalistic reading of this incident, was it was not to bring justice or honour to God,
but to trap Jesus, so their intent was rebellion against God, and not faithfulness to
His commands.

So maybe legalism is a false imposition of the law not to bring honour to God and
justice among His people, but for any other motive or situation.

 

[Stephen63]

No because if God leads me to walk amongst wolves, He will keep me safe from harm or call me back home to Him.

Though we walk through the shadow of death, we fear no evil for God is our Rod and our comforter.

God did not give us a spirit to fear but of power, love and a sound mind.

That sounds kinda charismatic, doesn't it?

Are you one?