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A
"This most likely means that they have come to worship Jesus over God."
The above statement is strange if you truly believe Jesus is God.
It states you don't believe people should worship Jesus, since you believe God reprimanded folks for it.
I disagree, but that can be found in my previous responses.
I just found it an odd statement to make, so I asked you a question.
The above statement is strange if you truly believe Jesus is God.
It states you don't believe people should worship Jesus, since you believe God reprimanded folks for it.
I disagree, but that can be found in my previous responses.
I just found it an odd statement to make, so I asked you a question.
I used to see it the exact opposite way. 
God seemed cruel to me because of what He let happen to Jesus. I loved Jesus but wanted nothing to do with God!
I used to view them as separate though, so we are similar in that.
But...in Rev., they worship the Lamb in heaven and say He is worthy of all honor and praise because all exist because of Him. (John says nothing was ever created except through the Word/Lamb/Light).
And of course those in heaven understand more than me. I don't think I have to worry I'm making a mistake to worship Jesus if those in heaven worship Him.
God seemed cruel to me because of what He let happen to Jesus. I loved Jesus but wanted nothing to do with God! I used to view them as separate though, so we are similar in that.
But...in Rev., they worship the Lamb in heaven and say He is worthy of all honor and praise because all exist because of Him. (John says nothing was ever created except through the Word/Lamb/Light).
And of course those in heaven understand more than me. I don't think I have to worry I'm making a mistake to worship Jesus if those in heaven worship Him.
I would answer this with the word emotion. How do we actually perceive truth or a lie?
You go through a process, and come with a feeling that you agree or not at the end of the process.
And your agreement is expressed emotionally.
So a person who has spent their life justifying themselves through the law and failing hates
everything associated with this idea. It is like the enemy, the opposite of who they are, a sore
wound. So the idea of devotion, of dedication to prayer, or service, or meditation would be
the opposite of how they feel. One guy expressed it that he could not read the law without
a feeling of condemnation.
What I have found is when you know a group, and the feelings they generate with each subject
or area, you begin to understand their individual morality. But this is not a morality of good and
evil, but approved of positions and disapproved of ones. All groups do this, in every area of life,
it helps build consensus, and defines a group direction.
What you get on cc is these cultures clashing and not understanding each other, because the
emotional language is often very different.
An example of this, is one sentence written in the wrong way sets someone off.
What complicates it is if you come in to mitigate an attack, because then you obviously are
taking sides, rather than just trying to bring peace and understanding. Sometimes you are
taking sides, which can make people get very upset, and hold serious grudges. But then
this is the cost of these types of interactions, but I for one, still think it is worth it.
I could not access such a broad range of experience so quickly than here.
You go through a process, and come with a feeling that you agree or not at the end of the process.
And your agreement is expressed emotionally.
So a person who has spent their life justifying themselves through the law and failing hates
everything associated with this idea. It is like the enemy, the opposite of who they are, a sore
wound. So the idea of devotion, of dedication to prayer, or service, or meditation would be
the opposite of how they feel. One guy expressed it that he could not read the law without
a feeling of condemnation.
What I have found is when you know a group, and the feelings they generate with each subject
or area, you begin to understand their individual morality. But this is not a morality of good and
evil, but approved of positions and disapproved of ones. All groups do this, in every area of life,
it helps build consensus, and defines a group direction.
What you get on cc is these cultures clashing and not understanding each other, because the
emotional language is often very different.
An example of this, is one sentence written in the wrong way sets someone off.
What complicates it is if you come in to mitigate an attack, because then you obviously are
taking sides, rather than just trying to bring peace and understanding. Sometimes you are
taking sides, which can make people get very upset, and hold serious grudges. But then
this is the cost of these types of interactions, but I for one, still think it is worth it.
I could not access such a broad range of experience so quickly than here.
Amen...Anything that is contrary to the life of Christ is one major pitfall waiting to happen.
Legalism is a sure sign of not understanding the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
In not knowing about God's righteousness - they go about to establish their own righteousness by what "they do or don't do". Romans 1:16-17
They do this by different methods - the Jews did it by trying to "do the law and commandments". All works-based mindsets are based on this same principle no matter how they manifest themselves. They try to dictate the fruits of righteousness to others because they think if they can mimic the fruit of righteousness - then they will be righteous.
The truth is this: We are the righteousness of God in Christ because of the gift of righteousness and it is all based on grace through faith in what Christ has already done for us.
Religion always gets the gospel and the dynamic for living and transformation in the New Covenant backwards.
Legalism is a sure sign of not understanding the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
In not knowing about God's righteousness - they go about to establish their own righteousness by what "they do or don't do". Romans 1:16-17
They do this by different methods - the Jews did it by trying to "do the law and commandments". All works-based mindsets are based on this same principle no matter how they manifest themselves. They try to dictate the fruits of righteousness to others because they think if they can mimic the fruit of righteousness - then they will be righteous.
The truth is this: We are the righteousness of God in Christ because of the gift of righteousness and it is all based on grace through faith in what Christ has already done for us.
Religion always gets the gospel and the dynamic for living and transformation in the New Covenant backwards.
I think it is very relevant whether He was sinless or not...
Of course we know He was because there are verses that tell us this.
But if you look into the law, God was upset with them for bringing imperfect sacrifices to the altar. They had to be without blemish or the people would not have their sins forgiven. This law, but in spirit, is speaking of Jesus who was to come - the spotless Lamb of God (not spotted by sin).
So it is relevant whether He was sinless or not.
Of course we know He was because there are verses that tell us this.
But if you look into the law, God was upset with them for bringing imperfect sacrifices to the altar. They had to be without blemish or the people would not have their sins forgiven. This law, but in spirit, is speaking of Jesus who was to come - the spotless Lamb of God (not spotted by sin).
So it is relevant whether He was sinless or not.
A
Okay let's talk about the 2nd type of legalism.
I would like to make the statement that learning to live a godly life is not the same as legalism. Legalism is trying to live a godly life in order TO OBTAIN OR KEEP your SALVATION.
It's about motives...do you do it out of love and because you KNOW YOU ARE SAVED by faith in what Jesus did?
Or do you feel that Jesus death on the cross was not enough and you need to live a godly life also or you will be condemned to hell?
I would like to make the statement that learning to live a godly life is not the same as legalism. Legalism is trying to live a godly life in order TO OBTAIN OR KEEP your SALVATION.
It's about motives...do you do it out of love and because you KNOW YOU ARE SAVED by faith in what Jesus did?
Or do you feel that Jesus death on the cross was not enough and you need to live a godly life also or you will be condemned to hell?
You are making an interesting distinction. Our minds are the tool with which we look
at issues and consider them. Our emotions tell us whether in summary we agree or are
deeply troubled by an idea. So our minds are not neutral, but hard wired with our emotions
and both work together.
A little experiment is thinking about what you are going to do in the next hour.
As you think about the issues, some will be exciting, enjoyable, some boring, some you hate.
These are all emotional summaries of your likely experience when doing the tasks.
They govern what you put off, and what you prioritise.
Emotions are in someways just these summarises of life, often pre-programmed by past
experience. Over the top, feelings are put to force us to do things, eat, sleep, move,
run etc. So I would suggest rather than there being a nice divide like you are describing
it is much more complex and interactive. It is also why CBT counselling is the only proven
therapy for depression or than drugs.
Your description also tells me you are scared of your emotions and feel it is the way the
enemy attacks you. This is often a symtom of emotional repression. The Lord has called
us to a open heart, where emotions sit within us appropriately and we are not mastered
by them, but rather walk in love and balance with the Lord.
at issues and consider them. Our emotions tell us whether in summary we agree or are
deeply troubled by an idea. So our minds are not neutral, but hard wired with our emotions
and both work together.
A little experiment is thinking about what you are going to do in the next hour.
As you think about the issues, some will be exciting, enjoyable, some boring, some you hate.
These are all emotional summaries of your likely experience when doing the tasks.
They govern what you put off, and what you prioritise.
Emotions are in someways just these summarises of life, often pre-programmed by past
experience. Over the top, feelings are put to force us to do things, eat, sleep, move,
run etc. So I would suggest rather than there being a nice divide like you are describing
it is much more complex and interactive. It is also why CBT counselling is the only proven
therapy for depression or than drugs.
Your description also tells me you are scared of your emotions and feel it is the way the
enemy attacks you. This is often a symtom of emotional repression. The Lord has called
us to a open heart, where emotions sit within us appropriately and we are not mastered
by them, but rather walk in love and balance with the Lord.
FNC - Christ on the cross is just appealing to our minds?
When we sing of our great love for our King, our saviour, he who gave His life for ours,
it is our intellectual assent that is uplifting him?
When you are cuddled by your mother and feel safe, that is just you intellectual understanding
your are safe?
When you loose someone you love deeply, the wound left feels like you have lost an arm
or a leg, it hurts wherever you go, but this is just an intellectual generated thing.
Emotions are much more than this, but those who close them down, need control,
describe things the way you do. It is also why we speak a different language in
spiritual terms. I would say when your heart sings, and there is clarity within,
so much falls into place.
You are confirming to me more than you know. But thankyou. It helps me to
understand and love you more in the Lord.
When we sing of our great love for our King, our saviour, he who gave His life for ours,
it is our intellectual assent that is uplifting him?
When you are cuddled by your mother and feel safe, that is just you intellectual understanding
your are safe?
When you loose someone you love deeply, the wound left feels like you have lost an arm
or a leg, it hurts wherever you go, but this is just an intellectual generated thing.
Emotions are much more than this, but those who close them down, need control,
describe things the way you do. It is also why we speak a different language in
spiritual terms. I would say when your heart sings, and there is clarity within,
so much falls into place.
You are confirming to me more than you know. But thankyou. It helps me to
understand and love you more in the Lord.
F
If you are sad, it is because you are thinking sad thoughts. If you are happy, it is because you are thinking happy thoughts. Your emotions respond to what you are thinking. And many times what you are thinking isn't even real, but your emotions do not know the difference between reality and fantasy. Which is why it is a dangerous thing to live guided by your emotions.
Yes, it is the work of the Spirit in us to get things in order, and to subject the parts that should not rule under their higher parts.
We have our mind, our will and our emotions. If our will rules us, we will be boorish, selfish and unobedient to anything but our own desires. If our emotions rule us, we will murder our brother, Like Cain. If our mind rules us we will become arrogant and puffed up.
So Jesus is the head and the order has to be put right, but under Him. Adam and Eve walked before the fall in an ordered way, the order God determined. God wants to reorder us again.
We have our mind, our will and our emotions. If our will rules us, we will be boorish, selfish and unobedient to anything but our own desires. If our emotions rule us, we will murder our brother, Like Cain. If our mind rules us we will become arrogant and puffed up.
So Jesus is the head and the order has to be put right, but under Him. Adam and Eve walked before the fall in an ordered way, the order God determined. God wants to reorder us again.