Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

I am sorry dc, if you do not address the point Gods is saying in Ezek ,
then ofcourse you can make up what you want.

All of Gods word is a coherent piece of revelation.
Using words like delusion, that I cannot read etc. is shameful.
It unfortunately means you have just lost the argument, without even making
your defence.

I am amazed that anyone of faith would use this kind of approach.
But then maybe faith does not really matter to you, just being part of your group.
I wish you well, but Gods word is Gods word, not to be dismissed because we answer
to Him.

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die.
Ezek 18:21


But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezek 18:24

The whole point of scripture is it is our foundation of authority and revelation.
Now we have a reason to say the ceremonial law is now passed and we are
under the law of Christ. Now there are good theological reasons for saying
this and unless you can show them to be wrong, this is the Lords truth.

If your going to quote me...quote the whole quote and context and quit being so deceptive pal! HERE I WILL HELP YOU

Originally Posted by PeterJens

This is probably the bigger difference.
Christ is the atoning sacrifice in the temple that tore down the curtain.

It changed our access and how we commune with God, but it has not changed the problem
of sin, and resolution.

Your response demonstrates the problem. You feel Jesus is a new faith, rather than
this is the revelation of the faith implicit in Moses law, and the prophets.

It also demonstrates that lists of theological statements sometimes do not capture
the shades of emphasis.

Like the idea "wrong" You are not addressing the point about walking righteously and
walking in sin, and how the Lord reacts to this.

Purity and righteousness matter, it is not something we can disregard and say we
are Holy Temples of the Holy Spirit. These are not minor points or things one
can ignore, it is integral with Jesus, the cross and salvation.
The above illustrates that..
a) You don't read very well or are blind
b) You attribute things not aid nor implied
c) You reject the N.T. while holding to delusion ideas about what others say

I said...

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Wrong.....and what does Ezekiel have to do with the NEW covenant found in CHRIST?....I am not under the CONDENATION of the LAW.....

IF we believe not after SALVATION HE ABIDES FAITHFUL for he cannot deny HIMSELF

The bolded are both NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES and what you imply is not said nor implied in what I said.....I highly recommend that you learn to read and understand ENGLISH before you continue in the BIBLE CHAT.....not being mean, just saying that if you cannot understand or properly interpret and or attribute N.T. theology you will be missing much!

 

[dcontroversal]

Ok so maybe she thought that too like God is keeping theese spots here for reason and lost her faith even more and then rebelled against God.
Now you would say it is impossable for one who have tasted the heavenly gifts to fall away. Once saved always saved no matter what.
But in this predicament this ladies faith was not enough yes or no

Think about what the bolded teaches and in CONTEXT......

IF one can lose salvation then there is no hope for anyone....

1 sin
1 moment of unbelief
1 act of rebellion
1 failure
1 moment of falling short

leads to one losing salvation that cannot be re-earned.......if this is the case....

King David, Solomon, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Noah, Peter, Paul, John are all in hell cooking......wake up to the truth of eternal security....it is the truth!

 

[gb9]

Think about what the bolded teaches and in CONTEXT......

IF one can lose salvation then there is no hope for anyone....

1 sin
1 moment of unbelief
1 act of rebellion
1 failure
1 moment of falling short

leads to one losing salvation that cannot be re-earned.......if this is the case....

King David, Solomon, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Noah, Peter, Paul, John are all in hell cooking......wake up to the truth of eternal security....it is the truth!

I wonder if these folks who lecture us about how they don't sin, they walk in purity , etc,.. ever consider what Jesus said - by your own words you will be justified or condemned - Matthew 12-37.

 

[JIMBO43]

Think about what the bolded teaches and in CONTEXT......

IF one can lose salvation then there is no hope for anyone....

1 sin
1 moment of unbelief
1 act of rebellion
1 failure
1 moment of falling short

leads to one losing salvation that cannot be re-earned.......if this is the case....

King David, Solomon, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Noah, Peter, Paul, John are all in hell cooking......wake up to the truth of eternal security....it is the truth!

Its the wrong answer to me because im not talking about one losing there salvation im talking about faith and faith alone. Scripture tell us that acts of rebellion are comman and scripture teaches about jacob who restled with God all night who in return God pulled his hip out of place.

I am not even go and suggest that the lady must not have had her faith to begin with and i am most certainly not going to say that she must deserve it.

Now on the other hand it may be that her faith was not enough to do bad works which in no ways means she had bad faith.

what it could mean is simple hey you need to renew your mind you may be forgiven yes or no

 

[dcontroversal]

Its the wrong answer to me because im not talking about one losing there salvation im talking about faith and faith alone. Scripture tell us that acts of rebellion are comman and scripture teaches about jacob who restled with God all night who in return God pulled his hip out of place.

I am not even go and suggest that the lady must not have had her faith to begin with and i am most certainly not going to say that she must deserve it.

Now on the other hand it may be that her faith was not enough to do bad works which in no ways means she had bad faith.

what it could mean is simple hey you need to renew your mind you may be forgiven yes or no

Originally Posted by JIMBO43

Ok so maybe she thought that too like God is keeping theese spots here for reason and lost her faith even more and then rebelled against God.
Now you would say it is impossable for one who have tasted the heavenly gifts to fall away. Once saved always saved no matter what.
But in this predicament this ladies faith was not enough yes or no

The bolded seems to indicate that you are hinting at losing salvation......

 

[JIMBO43]

Originally Posted by JIMBO43

Ok so maybe she thought that too like God is keeping theese spots here for reason and lost her faith even more and then rebelled against God.
Now you would say it is impossable for one who have tasted the heavenly gifts to fall away. Once saved always saved no matter what.
But in this predicament this ladies faith was not enough yes or no

The bolded seems to indicate that you are hinting at losing salvation......

nooo the bold means reasurance

 

[JIMBO43]

This argument is always goes to the salvation discussion which is good to talk about in a positive way.
But never Good in the negitive way Of losing salvation But what i alway say is why be bothered then if you know youve not lost it then why even argue it.

This my friend is what you call a wounded warrior test of which some pass some dont

 

[JIMBO43]

Originally Posted by JIMBO43

Ok so maybe she thought that too like God is keeping theese spots here for reason and lost her faith even more and then rebelled against God.
Now you would say it is impossable for one who have tasted the heavenly gifts to fall away. Once saved always saved no matter what.
But in this predicament this ladies faith was not enough yes or no

The bolded seems to indicate that you are hinting at losing salvation......

Now to summerise the Question even know it has been derailed lol

Faith without works is dead yes or no

Faith without works is still a faith that can grow yes or no


Faith with out works is unforgivable yes or no

What question will you choose

 

[PeterJens]

If your going to quote me...

dc - I made a simple question and point.

It is about being Holy Temples of the Holy Spirit.
You have failed to address what wickedness and what righteousness are.

Now you are not under the condemnation of the law if you walk in the Spirit
and not in the flesh.

Over the months it has become obvious Paul regarded those walking in the
Spirit as pure, holy and blameless. He argues that believers are the Holy
temples of the Holy Spirit, so it matters to him deeply.

Now I understand within your theology this does not fit, but then you
have to ignore the real meaning and read in the Paul is talking about
imputed righteousness, holiness etc. but this is absurd when he talks
about putting to death the old self, and putting on the new self, linked
with behaviour and approaches not spiritual imputed meaning.

Now I am not arguing a point, I am just giving my reading of an obvious
reality. And Paul was talking with new believers, those of limited theological
insight, and yet he boldly calls them the Holy people of God.

 

[PeterJens]

What to me is odd, is to be honest I can only withdraw and make statements,
because being told Gods word does not matter is apostacy.

Christ's law is more extensive in some ways than Moses law, because we now
have the Holy Spirit, Gods word written on our hearts, and love coursing through
us. But you would not believe that from some, if Gods Holy word is thrown to
one side, to defend hypocracy and failure, to admit continual sin and defilement
without cleansing, as if this is Gods intention through the cross.

I am still appauled at those who would say God forgives them as they sin,
when this is the opposite of everything testified to of our Lord and King.

The fact this brings no shame or guilt to these men and women, shows how
far they are from His Holy righteous and pure ways.

Imagine this. God lied. What would be justice or anything of the promises,
or hope or fulfilment. Where would the trust go, and how could we know we
are loved? So much hangs on this one principle. God does not change and
God does not lie. Everything ties together, and if you cannot see it is because
of your failure and not His.

 

[garee]

Now I am not arguing a point, I am just giving my reading of an obvious
reality. And Paul was talking with new believers, those of limited theological
insight, and yet he boldly calls them the Holy people of God.

To be holy is to be set apart by a work of Christ faith. Mount Sinia was considered holy yet the dirt on it had the same properties the mountain next to it has. It is God who makes of Holy and sets us asdie for His good purposes,.This is not of our own selves lest any man boast in some work they could perform. No man will be found with a righteous of themselves .There is no work we could perform that would add to his finished work of faith . No matter how wonderful we think it is.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Mat 7:22

Christ did not say he did not perform them but was informing him they are not of him. He said; depart from me, you that work iniquity.We knowHim by what He does nothing gets accredited to us.

 

[samuel23]

Kind of like the guy in the movie that was saying, Lord forgive me for the sin I am about to commit. I remember hearing of this Pastor who made the claim that if he raped a 16 year old girl the Lord would have to forgive him. Of course he was just trying to make a point but that was way too far out there for me...I don't see God having to do anything.

 

[dcontroversal]

Now to summerise the Question even know it has been derailed lol

Faith without works is dead yes or no

Faith without works is still a faith that can grow yes or no


Faith with out works is unforgivable yes or no

What question will you choose

James clearly answers point one....A genuine faith can be seen by MEN based upon fruit or works

FAITH is what brings salvation first and foremost....sanctification and growth are a daily process and indeed sprouts from faith and genuine salvation that one already possesses. To point two

Faith without works equals one whose works are of wood, hay and stubble which shall be burnt to a crisp yet they themselves will be saved so as by fire. To point three

ALL sins are forgivable except attributing the work of Jesus to the power of the devil instead of the Holy Spirit which is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit....NOTE..to do so is to deny the work of Jesus on one's behalf and is a permanent state of unbelief which is unforgivable! To point four

 

[dcontroversal]

Kind of like the guy in the movie that was saying, Lord forgive me for the sin I am about to commit. I remember hearing of this Pastor who made the claim that if he raped a 16 year old girl the Lord would have to forgive him. Of course he was just trying to make a point but that was way too far out there for me...I don't see God having to do anything.

God is bound by his word, nature and character....If one genuinely repents the bible is clear.......he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.....

 

[dcontroversal]

What to me is odd, is to be honest I can only withdraw and make statements,
because being told Gods word does not matter is apostacy.

Christ's law is more extensive in some ways than Moses law, because we now
have the Holy Spirit, Gods word written on our hearts, and love coursing through
us. But you would not believe that from some, if Gods Holy word is thrown to
one side, to defend hypocracy and failure, to admit continual sin and defilement
without cleansing, as if this is Gods intention through the cross.

I am still appauled at those who would say God forgives them as they sin,
when this is the opposite of everything testified to of our Lord and King.

The fact this brings no shame or guilt to these men and women, shows how
far they are from His Holy righteous and pure ways.

Imagine this. God lied. What would be justice or anything of the promises,
or hope or fulfilment. Where would the trust go, and how could we know we
are loved? So much hangs on this one principle. God does not change and
God does not lie. Everything ties together, and if you cannot see it is because
of your failure and not His.

WHERE sin ABOUNDS.........GRACE did MUCH MORE ABOUND......the woman taken in adultery....did she repent? Or did Jesus preemptively forgive her and not condemn her?

Every point you make is nothing more than opinion....YOU rarely quote scripture..as a matter of fact out of the last 30 posts made by you 20 were without one scriptural quote and or reference and at least 4 or 5 had references to O.T. scripture which has no bearing on salvation....what is tragic is one who does nothing more than quote opinion, embellish what those who disagree with you say and twist what we say....you have no credibility pal.....your doctrine reeks of Anglicanism and is no more than Catholic dogma repackaged under your own banner and seal!

When You can make direct quotes, reference scripture that actually applies and be honest about what is said....then address and engage me...until then I am not going to waste my breath on you......serious!

 

[samuel23]

God is bound by His word, however a human cannot use God to get what he or she wants...God is way above that. If a person could plan out and commit a serious sin with the intentions of asking for forgiveness later, and actually be able to enjoy the sin and then not have it counted because they asked for forgiveness...THEN MAN COULD OUT SMART GOD!! Not going to happen.

 

[dcontroversal]

God is bound by His word, however a human cannot use God to get what he or she wants...God is way above that. If a person could plan out and commit a serious sin with the intentions of asking for forgiveness later, and actually be able to enjoy the sin and then not have it counted because they asked for forgiveness...THEN MAN COULD OUT SMART GOD!! Not going to happen.

REALLY....OK.....Did DAVID know taking Bathsheba was sin before he took Bathsheba....DID he know it was sin to kill Uriah before he killed Uriah? Did he know it was sin to number the people before he numbered the people....MOST SIN we commit we know is sin before we commit it.......your premise falls way short....!

 

[IXApollyonXI]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

In Revelation 14:13 it states that their works do go with them?

 

[dcontroversal]

In Revelation 14:13 it states that their works do go with them?

No one states that the saved will not have fruit or works.....1st Corinthians 3 teaches that ALL believers have works...some of gold, silver and precious stones...some of wood, hay and stubble....

Works do not save, keep saved or embellish salvation that is possessed by faith....yea, works are the result of the faith that one already possesses......

 

[Seohce]

Re: Not By Works
Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal

I have not seen ONE who believes the BIBLICAL stance on salvation reject that WORKS are a RESULT of salvation one already POSSESES by FAITH.....and EVEN creation PROVES that stance........

FAITH plus WORKS for salvation is a lie from hell that has NO power to save...submit to GALATIANS 1, 3 pal.

FAITH ALONE saves...end of story

********************************
I have noticed that you know very well regarding the scriptures & I would sincerely appreciate if you could inform, add to my knowledge or explain to me( a nobody seeking the TRUTH) what these ff: verses actually imply:

New International Version 1984 Romans 8:24-25,29-30 FOR IN THIS HOPE WE WERE SAVED.. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. WHO HOPES FOR WHAT HE ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.