Not By Works

[mailmandan]

Not hardly John........and what I said was true......In the NAME of the Father, of the Son and OF THE SPIRIT.....you cannot separate the one from the other two......

Howbeit, when the Spirit of Truth is COME...HE will GUIDE you into all truth......HE is a personal pronoun and was inspired by God to be written........

So not only does John 832 deny the trinity, but he also denies that salvation is through faith in Christ alone and says we must be water baptized to be saved. Go figure.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-baptism-ephesians-4-5-a-19.html#post2959808 - See post #370

 

[dcontroversal]

So not only does John 832 deny the trinity, but he also denies that salvation is through faith in Christ alone and says we must be water baptized to be saved. Go figure.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-baptism-ephesians-4-5-a-19.html#post2959808 - See post #370

While ignoring the fact that the primo example was already the Son of God by birth before he was immersed.....gonna be a lot of people who got wet while thinking that the water saved them or helped facilitate their salvation.....tragic....!

 

[Grace777x70]

I am amazed at all the "different flavors of works" that people come up with.

All of them in their many forms and shapes deny the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ and nullify the very grace of God that saves them from operating in their life like it is meant to do.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am amazed at all the "different flavors of works" that people come up with. All of them deny the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ and nullify the very grace of God that saves them from operating in their life like it is meant to do.

I stand more amazed at how many throw James under the "works for salvation bus".....while ignoring the context altogether....and being totally ignorant of the fact that James is speaking to the ability of MEN to see our invisible faith that SAVES (alone and by itself) based upon the fruit that we bear (works)......ignorance runs deep in humanity for sure!

 

[Grace777x70]

I stand more amazed at how many throw James under the "works for salvation bus".....while ignoring the context altogether....and being totally ignorant of the fact that James is speaking to the ability of MEN to see our invisible faith that SAVES (alone and by itself) based upon the fruit that we bear (works)......ignorance runs deep in humanity for sure!

I agree....religious strongholds in our mind from our church teachings and traditions are some of the deepest entrenched beliefs.

They can have the "appearance" that they are "defending the faith" but in reality we could just be "defending our religious teachings and traditions" - which may or may not be accurate.

 

[PeterJens]

More opinion void of truth...par for the course with you Peter!

dc - At least you are predictable. You are a blessing to me through this, because
it teaches me about a lot of things I would not otherwise know.

I have found living examples are always the best examples we can have.

Imagine me as someone who is growing in thought word and deed. I take an idea,
something in scripture, explore it, read, learn and then move forward. It relates
to the word, to the fellowship, to my heart and experience and to others reactions.

What I find interesting, is your literal, does not effect me, approach. Would not
have believed it until I met you, so thank you. Very illuminating.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am amazed at all the "different flavors of works" that people come up with.

All of them in their many forms and shapes deny the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ and nullify the very grace of God that saves them from operating in their life like it is meant to do.

I think it goes back to religion. It started with Israel. You had your most strict sect of law followers. (Their version of the law) and then other sects. '

Then the church, in the third century, which, like Israel, Fell for religion instead of relationship, and became a massive works oriented institution. Which eventually splintered into denominations many of which who took their set of works with them.. While shunning other works, and thinking they are better, when in reality, they just have less works. But are just as bad. Preaching their own false gospel

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Welcome to my world DC.. Someone thinks you are attacking him, not loving him while trying to explain things to him. So he will never listen to a word you say.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think it goes back to religion. It started with Israel. You had your most strict sect of law followers. (Their version of the law) and then other sects. '

Then the church, in the third century, which, like Israel, Fell for religion instead of relationship, and became a massive works oriented institution. Which eventually splintered into denominations many of which who took their set of works with them.. While shunning other works, and thinking they are better, when in reality, they just have less works. But are just as bad. Preaching their own false gospel

exactly.....a gospel of a different kind with no power to save.......

 

[PeterJens]

I agree....religious strongholds in our mind from our church teachings and traditions are some of the deepest entrenched beliefs.

They can have the "appearance" that they are "defending the faith" but in reality we could just be "defending our religious teachings and traditions" - which may or may not be accurate.

Thank you for declaring your position. As I am not church taught man or following traditions,
it shows how far off your analysis is, but also how polarised you have become.

The other day I was told I believed taught Dogma.

It is like a thing that exists outside real life that possesses people.
The problem is another analysis could be put, that the individual in question had shut up his heart
so his faith related to things outside himself, so things of the heart where dogma to him, but should
have been his life blood.

And I know friends, this is not an argument, me persuading you, this is life experiences and internal
life realities. I really do appreciate you contributions, even if we totally disagree, and I am the
enemy. My biggest weakness, is I can only think my way, I have to observe others and their conclusions
to grasp their approach. It is why I love you, and would love to help you if I could.

God bless you, and may you find reality in Christ in whatever way you can.

 

[dcontroversal]

dc - At least you are predictable. You are a blessing to me through this, because
it teaches me about a lot of things I would not otherwise know.

I have found living examples are always the best examples we can have.

Imagine me as someone who is growing in thought word and deed. I take an idea,
something in scripture, explore it, read, learn and then move forward. It relates
to the word, to the fellowship, to my heart and experience and to others reactions.

What I find interesting, is your literal, does not effect me, approach. Would not
have believed it until I met you, so thank you. Very illuminating.

Exactly....the confident expectation of God to fulfill his word overrides those who will deny his word.....my salvation is based upon God, his power, his faith, his blood, his justification, his sanctification his sealing, HIS WORK and there are no words twisted by men who fail to understand the truth that will shake my faith into JESUS and HIS blood applied by faith......God is clear...

WHEN I SEE THE BLOOD I WILL PASS OVER YOU.......the blood of CHRIST is APPLIED BY FAITH....the JUST shall live BY FAITH end of story.....see the word faith in action below....

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE<----NOW THAT IS FAITH!

 

[dcontroversal]

Welcome to my world DC.. Someone thinks you are attacking him, not loving him while trying to explain things to him. So he will never listen to a word you say.

I will keep on swinging for those who are new and for those who are blind.....even one converted from this "working for heresy" is worth the effort migo.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will keep on swinging for those who are new and for those who are blind.....even one converted from this "working for heresy" is worth the effort migo.....

Who knows. Person in question may repent himself.

We need to pray for him

 

[dcontroversal]

Who knows. Person in question may repent himself.

We need to pray for him

Amen to that...I pray for the lost every day........that God will open their eyes to the truth........broad and wide is the path to destruction and PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER will be the group cast into the lake of fire who boasted of their works...just like those on this site!

 

[Grace777x70]

I will keep on swinging for those who are new and for those who are blind.....even one converted from this "working for heresy" is worth the effort migo.....

I agree..in the meantime I would suggest no interaction with those that can stir up strife. We can post the truth without interacting with them and thus stop getting entrapped in the behavior that detracts from the truth of the grace of God for us that will produce real changes in us.

Keep up the proclaiming of the work of the Lord Jesus Christ for life and living....

 

[FreeNChrist]

I think it goes back to religion. It started with Israel. You had your most strict sect of law followers. (Their version of the law) and then other sects. '

Then the church, in the third century, which, like Israel, Fell for religion instead of relationship, and became a massive works oriented institution. Which eventually splintered into denominations many of which who took their set of works with them.. While shunning other works, and thinking they are better, when in reality, they just have less works. But are just as bad. Preaching their own false gospel

"Christianity began in Palestine as a relationship, moved to Greece and became a philosophy, went to Rome and became an institution, moved to Europe and became a culture, finally it came to America and became an enterprise." - Richard Halverson

 

[PeterJens]

You know you have got it very wrong if ones summary of ones faith is like
getting married. "They got married and lived happily ever after"

Why? Because God gave us the bible, and it is not simple or easily understood
and takes a lifetime to walk.

But if you want a quick solution, get it at
Faith comes easy Church, Wide Street,
One way trip to hell, The Precipace Edge Town, Earth.

 

[dcontroversal]

You know you have got it very wrong if ones summary of ones faith is like
getting married. "They got married and lived happily ever after"

Why? Because God gave us the bible, and it is not simple or easily understood
and takes a lifetime to walk.

But if you want a quick solution, get it at
Faith comes easy Church, Wide Street,
One way trip to hell, The Precipace Edge Town, Earth.

The bolded above is your ongoing error....

Be not removed from the SIMPLICITY that IS FOUND IN CHRIST....

AND NO....IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.......that is why God is PLEASED with the SIMPLICITY found in the preaching of the cross and SAVING those who believe........YOUR VERY WORDS belie your ignorance of the truth.......WOW!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The bolded above is your ongoing error....

Be not removed from the SIMPLICITY that IS FOUND IN CHRIST....

AND NO....IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.......that is why God is PLEASED with the SIMPLICITY found in the preaching of the cross and SAVING those who believe........YOUR VERY WORDS belie your ignorance of the truth.......WOW!

when you rely on your own works, or your own deeds to save you.. It can be nothing but complicated.. In fact..The gospel itself would have to be such a huge book with many pages of all the different things or ways in which someone can be deemed saved, it would probably be larger than the bible itself. (a legal paper)

Praise God he is not a politician, but is a Father who loves his child unconditionally.

But as you said somewhere, unconditional is a painful term for some people.

 

[dcontroversal]

when you rely on your own works, or your own deeds to save you.. It can be nothing but complicated.. In fact..The gospel itself would have to be such a huge book with many pages of all the different things or ways in which someone can be deemed saved, it would probably be larger than the bible itself. (a legal paper)

Praise God he is not a politician, but is a Father who loves his child unconditionally.

But as you said somewhere, unconditional is a painful term for some people.

Exactly.....imagine if works were the way....how many different works does each person have to do....is there a set number...like hail Mary's....each one has to do a prescribed number....maybe for little ole auntie Gert is it 1250 works over her life and for Peter the rough on the edges railroad worker...he must do 2275 to make up for those 987 beers he drank after work over his 30 year work span....and Billy the 10 year old must only have 167 works because he is young<----the epitome and fallacy of works for salvation......1, 50, 500....maybe your one short....no hope in that really.....