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A
There is a difference between full and partial preterist.
Preterism | Theopedia
I agree with the below stated words but not everything concluded in the article.
Preterism | Theopedia
I agree with the below stated words but not everything concluded in the article.
I am not a preterist.. I do not believe the book of Revelations was all fulfilled around 70 AD..
I am not a pre-tribulation rapture believer either. I believe the rapture happens on the day of the second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ.. So i reject the pre-tribulation rapture because i believe it's timing is wrong..
Yes there will be a final judgement Day and all people will stand before God.. Some people will be saved and judged on their fruit and others will be condemned and judged or their works..
I do not believe the eternal home of the saved is heaven.. I believe there shall be a new heaven and a New earth and we shall live with Jesus in the New Jerusalem which will come out of heaven and down to the new earth.. We shall be living on the new earth for eternity..
The belief that we do not spend eternity in heaven is Bible based.. You only have to read the last chapters of the Book of Revelation to see this clearly revealed..
I am not a pre-tribulation rapture believer either. I believe the rapture happens on the day of the second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ.. So i reject the pre-tribulation rapture because i believe it's timing is wrong..
Yes there will be a final judgement Day and all people will stand before God.. Some people will be saved and judged on their fruit and others will be condemned and judged or their works..
I do not believe the eternal home of the saved is heaven.. I believe there shall be a new heaven and a New earth and we shall live with Jesus in the New Jerusalem which will come out of heaven and down to the new earth.. We shall be living on the new earth for eternity..
The belief that we do not spend eternity in heaven is Bible based.. You only have to read the last chapters of the Book of Revelation to see this clearly revealed..
I have looked at Pauls writings.
He holds the man of lawlessness will appear and lead the final rebellion.
In creation as our knowledge grows, we will get to a point where God cannot be
denied, because everything points to Him.
So the problem is simple. Either you know Him or you do not. So the chasm will
grow to a final showdown. And this is inevitable, based on our insatiable desire for
truth, and wanting power. And once someone can demonstrate authority without
bounds or righteousness, why would anyone want to defend any conformity or truth
or goodness.
When the veil is drawn back, there are only two Kingdoms.
He holds the man of lawlessness will appear and lead the final rebellion.
In creation as our knowledge grows, we will get to a point where God cannot be
denied, because everything points to Him.
So the problem is simple. Either you know Him or you do not. So the chasm will
grow to a final showdown. And this is inevitable, based on our insatiable desire for
truth, and wanting power. And once someone can demonstrate authority without
bounds or righteousness, why would anyone want to defend any conformity or truth
or goodness.
When the veil is drawn back, there are only two Kingdoms.
Ok, so this is apparently the definition of "Preterism".
But the definition makes no sense, and merely throws a monkey wrench into the works.
When the Disciples asked about "The END" you have to know what end they were talking about. The author quoted has redefined the End as "the Last Days", but that is wrong. The disciples asked about "the End".
When discussing the end, it is easy to get the wrong end of the stick.
Is the end, the end of the world, or the end of the Age (of the Old Covenant)?
If the end is the end of the age, we can now rephrase the definition.
Which then makes no sense, because the "some" is now redundant.
So:
Defined thus: Yes, I am a Preterist.
But the definition makes no sense, and merely throws a monkey wrench into the works.
When the Disciples asked about "The END" you have to know what end they were talking about. The author quoted has redefined the End as "the Last Days", but that is wrong. The disciples asked about "the End".
When discussing the end, it is easy to get the wrong end of the stick.
Is the end, the end of the world, or the end of the Age (of the Old Covenant)?
If the end is the end of the age, we can now rephrase the definition.
Which then makes no sense, because the "some" is now redundant.
So:
Defined thus: Yes, I am a Preterist.
We as people want to be in control, not threatened, safe, secure, so nothing
can be lost, or pain caused, everything predictable, nothing that can go wrong.
Leaders murder their friends and closest people when their power base is threatened.
People will sacrifice everything for the higher paid job, the dream job, the glittering
bauble just over the horizon which will make everything better.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Though our society live like kings, with entertainment coming out of our ears, we
are not happier, better at relationships, more in control, more at peace, rather
almost the opposite. Anxiousness is the growing psychological epidemic, people
want the fad diet, the solution to everything, a cure to all our problems, now, today.
Yet it is loneliness, isolated people, bitter and twisted, staggering into old age which
is such a common occurence. And yet this is what power and success has given us.
That is what we want, power.
can be lost, or pain caused, everything predictable, nothing that can go wrong.
Leaders murder their friends and closest people when their power base is threatened.
People will sacrifice everything for the higher paid job, the dream job, the glittering
bauble just over the horizon which will make everything better.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Though our society live like kings, with entertainment coming out of our ears, we
are not happier, better at relationships, more in control, more at peace, rather
almost the opposite. Anxiousness is the growing psychological epidemic, people
want the fad diet, the solution to everything, a cure to all our problems, now, today.
Yet it is loneliness, isolated people, bitter and twisted, staggering into old age which
is such a common occurence. And yet this is what power and success has given us.
That is what we want, power.
A
Thanks for clarifying Peter.
I seek truth and in seeking it have learnt that all power belongs to God and trying to grasp it is like Satan trying to become gods.
I don't WANT POWER, but I recognize that God gives us power and responsiblities as His children, but that is another conversation.
Sorry for the derailment.
I seek truth and in seeking it have learnt that all power belongs to God and trying to grasp it is like Satan trying to become gods.
I don't WANT POWER, but I recognize that God gives us power and responsiblities as His children, but that is another conversation.
Sorry for the derailment.
E
I think this is the crust of the issue. Some can not do this. They want to make it a Slavic issue, and claim you can;t be a pre-mill, and be saved
And that is what made those threads, and historical threads very heated.. And why Lauren made such comments as she did.. And you see the result..
People are not sick of the discussion. They are sick of the Judgment and hate from a few select people..
This is one man's view:
Gathering the Elect
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other (Matthew 24:31).
David Chilton writes of this passage:
Finally, Jesus announced, the result of Jerusalem's destruction will be Christ's sending forth of His "angels" to gather the elect. Isn't this the rapture? No. The word angels simply means messengers (cf. James 2:25), regardless of whether their origin is heavenly or earthly; it is the context which determines whether these are heavenly creatures being spoken of. The word often means preachers of the Gospel (see Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24; 9:52; Revelation 1-3). In context, there is every reason to assume that Jesus is speaking of the worldwide evangelism and conversion of the nations, which will follow upon the destruction of Israel.
After the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish religious system, God began to gather people into His Kingdom from the four corners of the earth. A great explanation of this is found in Victorious Eschatology.
To many people, this can speak only of the second coming of Christ at the end of history. But that is not what Jesus said it meant. Only three verses after this, He states, "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." Jesus said that this verse was descriptive of one of the things that would happen within the span of one generation.
How can we understand this? As Jesus sat down on His throne, all authority was given to Him in heaven and earth. Everything changed the moment Jesus came into His kingdom. The blowing of a trumpet meant to the Jews that a royal decree was going out. And what was that decree? It was time to release angels of God to go and gather His people from every nation. At the same time, the disciples of Jesus were commissioned to go and preach the gospel, making disciples of every nation. No longer was the Jewish nation the only people allowed within a covenant relationship with God [this occurred in Acts 10]. Jesus had become the Good Shepherd who was gathering His sheep from across the world.
Gathering the Elect
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other (Matthew 24:31).
David Chilton writes of this passage:
Finally, Jesus announced, the result of Jerusalem's destruction will be Christ's sending forth of His "angels" to gather the elect. Isn't this the rapture? No. The word angels simply means messengers (cf. James 2:25), regardless of whether their origin is heavenly or earthly; it is the context which determines whether these are heavenly creatures being spoken of. The word often means preachers of the Gospel (see Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24; 9:52; Revelation 1-3). In context, there is every reason to assume that Jesus is speaking of the worldwide evangelism and conversion of the nations, which will follow upon the destruction of Israel.
After the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish religious system, God began to gather people into His Kingdom from the four corners of the earth. A great explanation of this is found in Victorious Eschatology.
To many people, this can speak only of the second coming of Christ at the end of history. But that is not what Jesus said it meant. Only three verses after this, He states, "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." Jesus said that this verse was descriptive of one of the things that would happen within the span of one generation.
How can we understand this? As Jesus sat down on His throne, all authority was given to Him in heaven and earth. Everything changed the moment Jesus came into His kingdom. The blowing of a trumpet meant to the Jews that a royal decree was going out. And what was that decree? It was time to release angels of God to go and gather His people from every nation. At the same time, the disciples of Jesus were commissioned to go and preach the gospel, making disciples of every nation. No longer was the Jewish nation the only people allowed within a covenant relationship with God [this occurred in Acts 10]. Jesus had become the Good Shepherd who was gathering His sheep from across the world.
What is really odd is that if Partial Preterism is the overwhelmingly orthodox position of the Church pre-Scofield, why doesn't it have it's own name?
When people talk about Preterism, they are referring to a really odd set of beliefs. It is actually odd that partial-Preterism and Preterism share the same name, as if the two are connected.
Why not Preterism and Adventism, then the labels would actually make more sense.
When people talk about Preterism, they are referring to a really odd set of beliefs. It is actually odd that partial-Preterism and Preterism share the same name, as if the two are connected.
Why not Preterism and Adventism, then the labels would actually make more sense.
It is I think wise to listen to people on the matter as it seems to follow more closely to the actual position they hold on the matter. In the matter of pre,post,mid ect. it is best I found to reason through whether it is in aspect to the tribulation or the millennial kingdom. Some are pre-tribulation but mid or post mill.,some are pre-trib. and pre-mill. both ect... but this doesn’t seem to follow any set rules so...
If there was any set of rules to follow I suppose it would be Jesus on the matter. In Matthew 24:29 Jesus coins the phrase "immediately after the tribulation of those days" and then goes on to explain the events that follow "after" the events he has previously listed. If the things he names as taking place before the "tribulation" wars,rumours of wars,earthquakes,AoB,affliction, ect. are all prior to the things he names after,Gathering from the four winds,signs of the coming,sound of a trumpet ect. then Jesus is "post tribulation/pre millennial" in his position so I am also.
I think if we listen to what some would say we would find that some might differ here and there on this though. If someone was pre-tribulation then that means they believe the tribulation nor the millennium has taken place at this time that is I've not seen anyone hold that the tribulation comes after the millennial. There is though Gog and Magog that rise after the millennial but it is not the same tribulation being spoken of that is spoken of in the olivet discourse.
Your right about the Americans I think that is if you are denoting the United States of America or it's peoples. I say this because after travelling abroad I noticed that myself being born in the U.S. when ask by customs if I say "American" when in say South America it is viewed as an "evasive answer" to the question. So I find that in the other nations in the Americas they also consider themselves as Americans just "south Americans or Central Americans" and are actually try to denote the nation in the Americas I am from.
In the example I gave in post #5 the person we all know made a certain statement about Gog and Magog beginning to fulfil prophecies. I think it was revealing and curious to make those statements. I thought when he said it that if he was pre-trib/pre-mill. then that would mean that he thought these things were still future events so he was definitely not Pre-trib./pre-mill. Now so like I said it is easer to just follow along with what they said and so if they believe Gog and Magog was fulfilling those events at the time they said this then it meant that they had to believe that the tribulation and the millennial both had already happened and that we(the world) at that time were in the days after the millennium in scripture and that the devil had been loosed and had gone out to deceive the world.
So it is certain that they don’t see future fulfilments in regards to the tribulation nor the millennial kingdom so then they are preterite in their position in eschatology. Now then this would mean that if they believed that the tribulation and the millennial both were past tense and that we were in the days of Gog and Magog their position is that the first resurrection is already past and that they themselves would then be part of the second resurrection of the dead and not part of the first (Rev.20:4-6/Rev.20:12) I found this to be an curious position to hold to but none the less it is the position he holds to and as the world did find out that it might influence him to gather in the whole earth into events based on his theological position.
Because it doesn't require one of our man-made labels. It is simply reading the Bible for what is there, instead of trying to invent extraneous things not present. For instance, we humans had to really make a stretch of the words, "this generation", to make them mean something 2,000 years (or a lot more) off into the future, instead of those words applying to the men standing right there that Jesus was answering.
But, we did. And now we have even labeled it with something never even mentioned in the Bible.
But, we did. And now we have even labeled it with something never even mentioned in the Bible.
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