Not By Works

dcontroversal · Jan 28, 2017

Without a doubt....I have heard men who were wrong in their view say...WELL, my great grand pappy was a "fill in the blank" and if it was good enough for him it is good enough for me.......tragic.....I heard a man say...I just don't believe God will send me to hell because I am not immoral.....etc.....many will burn because they refuse to acknowledge their parents, friend, family were wrong in their interpretation of the word.......tragic for sure.....

Grace777x70 · Jan 28, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Yep!..kinda like I heard an old guy say one time about the Kings James Bible version - "If it was good enough for Jesus and for Paul and Silas - it's good enough for me."

Every fiber of my being said...

dcontroversal · Jan 28, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

HAHAH yeah I heard....

1. Paul quoted the King James
2. Jesus taught out of the King James

This is the type of ignorance that permeates "churches" today.......

88 · Jan 28, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

*******Come on---everyone knows Paul was a Texan----He said ..."that my joy is the joy of "you all". (2 Corinthians 2:3)

dcontroversal · Jan 28, 2017

88 said:

Or Paul was from Missouri...SHOW ME state....He showed us alright when he said....

WE conclude that a MAN is JUSTIFIED (before God) by faith without the deed of the law (works)

James also had to be shown.....SOMEONE'S invisible faith by the deeds they do......BOTH are right

Before God by FAITH
Before MEN by Works

PeterJens · Jan 28, 2017

Man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.
Deut 8:3

If people dwell in the word and let the word dwell in their hearts,
the Lord will bring the truth to bare.

JIMBO43 · Jan 28, 2017

PeterJens said:

what this means is when the Father looks upon you he sees the spirit looking back at him.

Now does this ring a bell. (HOLY IS YOUR NAME) This is super intelligence. The fact that the spirit can talk through you or to you is EUNIQUE to you and evreyone.

Think about this question now lets see how intelligent your answer is DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA WHAT A WAVE LENGHT IS.

JIMBO43 · Jan 28, 2017

AND NOW TO THE SECOND QUESTION The fact that the spirit can talk through you or to you is EUNIQUE (IN WHAT SENCE) ?

I wonder if youll work this one out.

dcontroversal · Jan 28, 2017

PeterJens said:

Is everything written applicable unto us........? NO.......application, context etc. ALL determine how we are to apply the word...not everything written is applicable unto us!

dcontroversal · Jan 29, 2017

gb9 said:

Not until they are in the "plenteous in number" grouping that is being cast from his presence because they trusted in their works over the work of Jesus......and even then they will go kicking and screaming and saying...LORD, LORD did we not do many wonderful works in your name...........

I will take the finished work of Jesus and faith into that work any and all day over my own ability and or the things I have done in the name of Jesus........

PeterJens · Jan 29, 2017

PeterJens said:

If these words condemn you, then you are not walking in the Spirit of God but the flesh.

We are not under condemnation because we walk in the Holy Spirit.

Until you walk with an open heart, love will never reach down into you and set you free.
Ex-legalists who grew up in the church know all the theology and how to behave in a
"christian" cultural way, but know the hypocracy and lack of reality within.

I know this is not what Christ meant or intended. Our real selves is where the Holy Spirit
needs to dwell. Only you the reader know how defended you heart is. All I can say to you
my friends, there is no other way to walk with Christ than from the heart.

Do you even know your heart within, or have you always walked according to what was
expected of you? In someways I would say you need to discover yourself within, before
you can begin to know Christ within walking with you.

This is what salvation means, and why sinners who know they have failed is always the
first step to admitting before God you need him within.

know1 · Jan 29, 2017

dcontroversal said:

The above statement sounds so hypocritical.
You express your confident expectation for God to keep or fulfill His word/promises concerning salvation only, but those who believe as you do, with every other promise outside salvation, you have to use excuse after excuse as to why you no longer have ANY confident expectation for God to fulfill His word/promises.
It is a good thing to acknowledge God's faithfulness concerning salvation, but why do you people always ignore and even deny the truth of the other promises? Is it because you are so carnally minded that you cannot receive the truth of His word, or is it because it goes against your church doctrine, or is it really because you have asked multiple times in the past, only to witness God denying you the answer to your prayers? And therefore, the real reason why you refuse to believe the truth is because your FAILED EXPERIENCES DICTATE what is truth and what is not.
Is it so hard to believe that God will give you what YOU desire? That IS what is written, and yet, you deny that God would do such a thing because you are such a sinful person and you don't know what is good for you and your family but He does. Or it is because you have to ADD another verse of the bible to make a truth to be the whole council of God, for it must be according to God's will? Excuses, excuses, excuses. You still deny the truth of God's word.
I have noticed when I back any of you into a corner, so to speak, you go silent, ignoring what I write, hoping I will just let it go, and so I do, but it is to your shame. You prove beyond all doubt, that you choose to believe a lie, thereby denying Christ in one way, why acknowledging Him for salvation ONLY. If there is anything you have to experience in the natural, ALL CONFIDENT EXPECTATIONS suddenly go out the window, and that's because you say it depends on what the will of God is, and since NOBODY knows if it is God's will to heal or answer your prayers, according to those who believe as you do, then you will have to wait and see what happens. IF I get it, then it was the will of God, and if I don't, then it wasn't His will. Basing your faith on facts, or rather after the fact, and thereby putting the cart before the horse. You believe only after you see and not before. How is that faith in God and in His word?
Now that you are born again, IF that be true, where is your confident expectation for God to answer your prayers, if you DON'T KNOW what God will do, because you don't know what His will is? I tell you, you have zero. Zero confidence and zero faith.

dcontroversal · Jan 29, 2017

know1 said:

The bolded red statement is what hope means in the bible....wake up and the underlined above is just a fabrication on your part...I have never indicated such....so....who leads you again?

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Exactly....the confident expectation of God to fulfill his word overrides those who will deny his word.....my salvation is based upon God, his power, his faith, his blood, his justification, his sanctification his sealing, HIS WORK and there are no words twisted by men who fail to understand the truth that will shake my faith into JESUS and HIS blood applied by faith......God is clear...

WHEN I SEE THE BLOOD I WILL PASS OVER YOU.......the blood of CHRIST is APPLIED BY FAITH....the JUST shall live BY FAITH end of story.....see the word faith in action below....

It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE<----NOW THAT IS FAITH

Seohce · Jan 29, 2017

Seohce said:

If doing the will of God(heb 10:9-10) & the fear of Him & obedience to His commandments(loving God)(1 john 5:3,eccle 12:13) could not save us but faith alone would. , then many verses in the scriptures would have to be omitted
w/c is a blatant sin & unacceptable. We shouldn’t do such things just to be proved right. Faith & works do go together because faith without works is dead(james 2:17-26) & there is no verse in the scriptures that says that faith alone saves & once saved always saved.

John 8:31-32 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

God’s LOVE & MERCY endures forever & MERCY triumphs over judgment. It is God who works in us(phil2:13, rom 8:28, gal 2:20)) so we cannot throw away good works or the works of God in us.

21st Century King James Version Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but FAITH WHICH WORKETH BY LOVE….Amen.

Seohce · Jan 29, 2017

New International Version 1984 1 Timothy 4:9-12,16 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (and for this WE LABOR AND STRIVE), that we have put our HOPE IN THE LIVING GOD, who is the SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, and ESPECIALLY
(not exclusively) of those who believe. Command and teach these things. Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity. Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

1 Timothy 6:3-5,20-21
If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is FALSELY CALLED KNOWLEDGE, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith. Grace be with you.

know1 · Jan 30, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Sir, you just confirmed what I have been saying for years, only no one would admit it. y'all are not believing but hoping, and I don't see in scripture where God answers prayers of hoping or wishing. We are not saved by grace through hope but through faith. Hope is in the future tense, where faith is in the present. Meaning, if you don't already have it, then it most likely won't be given. Why do you think those who walk by faith call things which be not AS THOUGH IT IS, as God does? If you are not walking AS THOUGH IT IS, when it is not, then it most likely won't be. Because it will be according to your faith along with a few other factors that could be involved in the equation of receiving answers to our prayers.
When we confess and walk as though it is, BEFORE it is, while believing in our heart that it shall be or manifest in the natural, we show our faith BY our works. Without the corresponding works of confessing and walking as though it is before it is, our faith would be dead, useless, powerless, without effect, and the like. This is what James, Paul, and the writer of Hebrews were talking about.
Doing good works that the world can do without God, when it is within your power to do so, such as giving money to the poor when you have more than enough money to give, does not show your faith in the least.

And I wasn't speaking directly to you, but to all who believe as you do.
"but those who believe as you do, with every other promise outside salvation, you have to use excuse after excuse as to why you no longer have ANY confident expectation for God to fulfill His word/promises. "
So when I said "you", it was to all who believe as you do.
Tell me, how is it that you are believing when you say you are in fact only hoping or wishing that it be God's will to heal or answer your prayer? Again, this is to all who believe as you do. And yes, I am assuming that it has to do with the will of God, as that is what I have been told by most.
And how does your wonderment of what God's will is, factor into walking by faith or showing your faith by your works. What work of faith do you do to show or prove that you have true faith, as you call it, when you are hoping?

dcontroversal · Jan 30, 2017

know1 said:

Sir, you just confirmed what I have been saying for years, only no one would admit it. y'all are not believing but hoping, and I don't see in scripture where God answers prayers of hoping or wishing. We are not saved by grace through hope but through faith. Hope is in the future tense, where faith is in the present. Meaning, if you don't already have it, then it most likely won't be given. Why do you think those who walk by faith call things which be not AS THOUGH IT IS, as God does? If you are not walking AS THOUGH IT IS, when it is not, then it most likely won't be. Because it will be according to your faith along with a few other factors that could be involved in the equation of receiving answers to our prayers.
When we confess and walk as though it is, BEFORE it is, while believing in our heart that it shall be or manifest in the natural, we show our faith BY our works. Without the corresponding works of confessing and walking as though it is before it is, our faith would be dead, useless, powerless, without effect, and the like. This is what James, Paul, and the writer of Hebrews were talking about.
Doing good works that the world can do without God, when it is within your power to do so, such as giving money to the poor when you have more than enough money to give, does not show your faith in the least.

And I wasn't speaking directly to you, but to all who believe as you do.
"but those who believe as you do, with every other promise outside salvation, you have to use excuse after excuse as to why you no longer have ANY confident expectation for God to fulfill His word/promises. "
So when I said "you", it was to all who believe as you do.
Tell me, how is it that you are believing when you say you are in fact only hoping or wishing that it be God's will to heal or answer your prayer? Again, this is to all who believe as you do. And yes, I am assuming that it has to do with the will of God, as that is what I have been told by most.
And how does your wonderment of what God's will is, factor into walking by faith or showing your faith by your works. What work of faith do you do to show or prove that you have true faith, as you call it, when you are hoping?

No actually what I just said is biblical....FAITH HOPE and LOVE........

Faith believes and saves...Hope is the confident expectation that God does save eternally and will keep his promise of salvation and eternal life.....and we love God because he 1st loved us....
A confident expectation that God will fulfill his promise IS FAITH

For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

BOTH are tied together.......!

Grace777x70 · Jan 30, 2017

Faith supplies what Hope already says you have which was supplied by grace alone. Faith works by love. We know the love of God for us and this releases true faith.

We can't "faith anything in" that grace has not already provided in Christ's finished work. Hope is the confident expectation of good that is already ours in Christ. It is this reality that ignites true faith. It is always sourced in Christ alone.

dcontroversal · Jan 30, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Faith supplies what Hope already says you have which was supplied by grace alone. Faith works by love. We know the love of God for us and this releases true faith.

We can't "faith anything in" that grace has not already provided in Christ's finished work. Hope is the confident expectation of good that is already ours in Christ. It is this reality that ignites true faith. It is always sourced in Christ alone.

AMEN...faith, hope and love.....they all work in tandem.....

know1 · Jan 31, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Notice the separation between faith and hope? They are two different words with separate meanings. And the biblical meaning of hope is different than that of most who say they're just a hopin and a prayin. If receiving one's salvation was like that of a genuine healing, to where you had to experience it in the natural, the churches would be practically empty. But because you don't have to experience anything, you have many wolves in sheep's clothing among the sheep, or tares among the wheat, who claim to be a believer, but prevent or deny the power of God from operating in their lives.

Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Faith and hope are not the same. As I stated earlier, faith is now, and hope is in the future. Hope waits for it to happen, while faith has it now.
Having a confident expectation that God will fulfill His promise is the biblical definition of hope, not faith.
The conscious part of you is not in heaven yet, and so your confident expectation is that when you die, you will go to heaven.
But your faith sees you born again, now. Faith is not waiting for your new birth some day, like hope does for heaven. It has it now.
And the hope of most in the church is more along the lines of wishing, when it comes to healing and answered prayer.
Again, without knowing the will of God before hand, you are simply hoping and wishing that it's God's will to answer your prayers. Mk 11:24 tell us to believe that we have already received the answer to our prayers, AT THE TIME OF OUR PRAYER OR WHEN WE PRAYED, and then we will have it. Faith has it in the heart, hope will have it in the natural sometime in the future.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Not By Works

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