Did Christ do enough to save us?

[garee]

Let us reverse the idea.

If we are doers of the word are we evil? No, we are righteous. Why? Because
we can only be doers of the word if we are walking in communion with Christ.

No man could be found with any righteousness of their own selves.(impossible) It would simply make the faith of Christ, of God without effect. Can’t serve two masters, Christ and one's own self.

Reverse or turn things upside down? The man in Mathew 7 was a doer of the word, he prophesied in the name/authority of Christ and cast out demons by that authority and performed miracle in Christ name/authority. The problem is he attributed the work of God to his own self as the name it claim it. Christ called him a worker of inequity. Christ never said by Christ’s own authority he did not prophecy, cast out demons, and perform miracles.

Many say they do but do not.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:22

 

[PeterJens]

So much can become confused. Be a walker in the ways of Christ and ignore those
who say this is impossible because they are in unbelief. So many decry their own
position when Christ says good and faithful servant.

Being a worker of righteousness is not a nice place with all the gibbs but that is what
we are in Christ, temples of the Holy Spirit. Do you believe God?

Jesus condemns evil doers, not the redeemed who love from within with the anointing
Of God from on high.

You claim to know God, the eternal, his word, yet you are silent. Do not let the enemy snatch
God's word from your heart my brother and sister but dwell with Him in praise.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"Being a receiver or a taker...is the basis for our relationship with God. Christians are not "doers for God" but "receivers from God." They are not active workers, but are first and foremost passive receivers. To be a Christian, we do not do something, nor do we join something. To be a Christians, we receive by faith the blessings of forgiveness of sins, life, and salvation offered to us in the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. A person becomes a Christian by first becoming a receiver of God's grace. Being a passive receiver of God's grace is not easy! Human pride fights against the notion of being a taker. We embrace the erroneous notion that "God helps those who help themselves." We would prefer self-help rather than divine help. But in fact when we deal with eternal life, we are helpless. It is not easy being a receiver of grace! But speaking of a Christian as being a "receiver" defines the nature and action of Christian faith." - Don Matzat

 

[PeterJens]

"Being a receiver or a taker...is the basis for our relationship with God. Christians are not "doers for God" but "receivers from God."

This language is not christian. It is an ethic which does not work.
We are called to do things, to act in particular ways, to put things to death, to think
to purify, to follow.

This is very much action and doing driven by the Holy Spirit and love within.

So if you start creating a non-christian ethic and then raising it above scripture
you are nullifying the word of God. This is not listening to the word or loving
God.

 

[Grace777x70]

"Being a receiver or a taker...is the basis for our relationship with God. Christians are not "doers for God" but "receivers from God." They are not active workers, but are first and foremost passive receivers. To be a Christian, we do not do something, nor do we join something. To be a Christians, we receive by faith the blessings of forgiveness of sins, life, and salvation offered to us in the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. A person becomes a Christian by first becoming a receiver of God's grace. Being a passive receiver of God's grace is not easy! Human pride fights against the notion of being a taker. We embrace the erroneous notion that "God helps those who help themselves." We would prefer self-help rather than divine help. But in fact when we deal with eternal life, we are helpless. It is not easy being a receiver of grace! But speaking of a Christian as being a "receiver" defines the nature and action of Christian faith." - Don Matzat

Beautiful truth about the true Christian life - how we walk in Christ is the exact same way we received Him - by grace through faith in what Christ has already done.

Without this foundation in Christ alone - we create religions amongst ourselves and these man-made religions all have something in common - trying to achieve things by what "we do" - which has already been accomplished by and in Christ already.

And the "receiving of Him" and the revelation of this truth will reveal the religion of Christianity verses Christ Himself.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.


John 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

 

[bravethea]

[h=1]TO ME first you must accept Christ as Lord and Savior and then its a Love walk and sometimes even compared to climbing the Matterhorn ~ You know sadly some didnt make it cause when tough times came they fell away.[/h]

 

[PeterJens]

I find it sad to see people talking about following Christ yet link this to man-made religions.

A person born of an eternal seed does not become a man-made religion.
On the last day we will see who stands and who falls, but we are called to water the seed
with the word of God and God will give the growth.

How big is your faith? When you pray who are you praying to? Jesus Christ if you walk in faith.
If you obey the Lord who are you obeying? Yourself or Jesus Christ?
Jesus Christ because he told you to follow.

Many will pull you into bondage rather than let love and grace freely grow in your heart,
by sowing cynicism and unbelief in your heart against the very word of God.

Their bondage is a discussion between self or God. The lie is simply God does not tell
you His ways and you follow, there is a debate, and a testing everything in your soul, so
you end up failed and lost in all you do, which is excused as showing your dependence on Christ.
In reality this is just unbelief, quenching the Holy Spirit and walking in condemnation.

We are only condemned for actual sin, not manufactured legalistic positive or negative ethics,
or am I doing this for myself or for status or for Christ or whatever. God asks you to walk
with a good heart in love to Him, so do this.

 

[Grandpa]

So if you start creating a non-christian ethic and then raising it above scripture
you are nullifying the word of God. This is not listening to the word or loving
God.

Do you mean like telling people that Christ has not done enough to save us?

 

[PeterJens]

Do you mean like telling people that Christ has not done enough to save us?

Do you mean by miss-quoting what I meant, to show how this is not the whole
story, but a headline.

No one is saved unless they respond with an open heart to Christ.
Have you responded with an open heart to Christ? If not, how can
you say you know God, because you know the words and appease your
religious desires, yet exclude him from your most precious thoughts.

 

[blessedjohn80]

I find it sad to see people talking about following Christ yet link this to man-made religions.

A person born of an eternal seed does not become a man-made religion.
On the last day we will see who stands and who falls, but we are called to water the seed
with the word of God and God will give the growth.

How big is your faith? When you pray who are you praying to? Jesus Christ if you walk in faith.
If you obey the Lord who are you obeying? Yourself or Jesus Christ?
Jesus Christ because he told you to follow.

Many will pull you into bondage rather than let love and grace freely grow in your heart,
by sowing cynicism and unbelief in your heart against the very word of God.

Their bondage is a discussion between self or God. The lie is simply God does not tell
you His ways and you follow, there is a debate, and a testing everything in your soul, so
you end up failed and lost in all you do, which is excused as showing your dependence on Christ.
In reality this is just unbelief, quenching the Holy Spirit and walking in condemnation.

We are only condemned for actual sin, not manufactured legalistic positive or negative ethics,
or am I doing this for myself or for status or for Christ or whatever. God asks you to walk
with a good heart in love to Him, so do this.

Peter, at first I thought you were an intelligent fellow but it seems the more you post the more you seem lost. Now, I assume from experience that you'll probably just gonna dodge my sincere concern for you and post a long reply filled with unrelated topics and try to retort an advice yourself, but frankly speaking, you're not fooling anybody but yourself.

You post all kinds of good works and love and gentleness and humility, yet your words betray you. You justify yourself too much. When you talk about sin, you almost always refer to someone else and when talking about obedience you almost never fail to mention yourself. Honestly, you reek of pride, not of humility.

If you do take walking in obedience seriously, I would suggest some self-reflection. Also try to stay on point and not wander off topics, grant it, sometimes, I find your words poetic but becomes a waste of time after reading.

With regards to the topic, I believe you know where I stand. But in case you don't, I believe Jesus finished the job completely and fully. Just as God sat after the creation, Jesus also sat down on the right hand of God to signify the same completion of our salvation. The Holy Spirit being our seal and guarantee. We are no longer slaves but sons and daughters.

Grace and peace to you. May God bless you with wisdom, peace and provision to do His will.

 

[PeterJens]

Peter, at first I thought you were an intelligent fellow but it seems the more you post the more you seem lost. Now, I assume from experience that you'll probably just gonna dodge my sincere concern for you and post a long reply filled with unrelated topics and try to retort an advice yourself, but frankly speaking, you're not fooling anybody but yourself.

You post all kinds of good works and love and gentleness and humility, yet your words betray you. You justify yourself too much. When you talk about sin, you almost always refer to someone else and when talking about obedience you almost never fail to mention yourself. Honestly, you reek of pride, not of humility.

If you do take walking in obedience seriously, I would suggest some self-reflection. Also try to stay on point and not wander off topics, grant it, sometimes, I find your words poetic but becomes a waste of time after reading.

With regards to the topic, I believe you know where I stand. But in case you don't, I believe Jesus finished the job completely and fully. Just as God sat after the creation, Jesus also sat down on the right hand of God to signify the same completion of our salvation. The Holy Spirit being our seal and guarantee. We are no longer slaves but sons and daughters.

Grace and peace to you. May God bless you with wisdom, peace and provision to do His will.

What you are saying is I am in sin, full of pride, arrogance and hypocracy.

This is the sin of cynicism and unbelief. You have no basis for such statements my friend.
So why do you bring them, unless you yourself have a guilty conscience and wish to involve
me with your own spiritual state.

You do not believe Christ calls us Holy, blameless, pure, cleansed, washed clean?
If you do not believe this is possible, why do you disbelieve scripture?

If Christ says I am these things, who am I to say I am not, unless I know of sin
in which I walk. Now the only answer to date is from people so closed down and locked
out, their hearts and emotions run over them every day, and get them into real relationship
sin constantly. This should be testimony enough, they have not truly opened their hearts
to Christ and let Him in, and put Christ on the throne. ( a phrase I used to dislike )

Putting Christ on the throne is admitting failure and asking Christ into ones heart without
any defence, and letting all the pain and hurt out.

This is all I know, so if this is not what you meant, I apologise, but I have nothing else
to share. You would know what I mean if you had walked this path.

 

[PeterJens]

If you do take walking in obedience seriously, I would suggest some self-reflection. Also try to stay on point and not wander off topics, grant it, sometimes, I find your words poetic but becomes a waste of time after reading.

I am sorry all I share for you is a waste of time, God bless you, and may the Lord
open your heart to His word and His Spirit.

 

[PeterJens]

If you do take walking in obedience seriously, I would suggest some self-reflection.

All I share is based on self reflection, but it appears you have not noticed, probably
too busy disbelieving it all so nothing is left, lol.

 

[gb9]

All I share is based on self reflection, but it appears you have not noticed, probably
too busy disbelieving it all so nothing is left, lol.

maybe some Bible reflection or better yet Jesus reflection would be a great thing. you spend to much time on you. you do not save you.

 

[PeterJens]

maybe some Bible reflection or better yet Jesus reflection would be a great thing. you spend to much time on you. you do not save you.

gb9 - everything in your whole life is only what you project in your own mind
based on the filter of your heart. If the heart is faulty so will be everything
you project.

This is why as sinners we are so lost without Christ in our hearts.

 

[blessedjohn80]

What you are saying is I am in sin, full of pride, arrogance and hypocracy.

This is the sin of cynicism and unbelief. You have no basis for such statements my friend.
So why do you bring them, unless you yourself have a guilty conscience and wish to involve
me with your own spiritual state.

You do not believe Christ calls us Holy, blameless, pure, cleansed, washed clean?
If you do not believe this is possible, why do you disbelieve scripture?

If Christ says I am these things, who am I to say I am not, unless I know of sin
in which I walk. Now the only answer to date is from people so closed down and locked
out, their hearts and emotions run over them every day, and get them into real relationship
sin constantly. This should be testimony enough, they have not truly opened their hearts
to Christ and let Him in, and put Christ on the throne. ( a phrase I used to dislike )

Putting Christ on the throne is admitting failure and asking Christ into ones heart without
any defence, and letting all the pain and hurt out.

This is all I know, so if this is not what you meant, I apologise, but I have nothing else
to share. You would know what I mean if you had walked this path.

I've highlighted the words that betray you. Take some time to reflect. Apology accepted.

May God open your eyes. Bless you.

 

[blessedjohn80]

gb9 - everything in your whole life is only what you project in your own mind
based on the filter of your heart. If the heart is faulty so will be everything
you project.

This is why as sinners we are so lost without Christ in our hearts.

You just unknowingly admit that you yourself project your own faulty heart in everyone.

 

[PeterJens]

You just unknowingly admit that you yourself project your own faulty heart in everyone.

Faith and religion are real if they go into ones heart.

Now I am not projecting anything onto anyone. I have just been sharing about how
God sees us in Christ. But it seems you cannot cope with this, or accept we can walk
blamelessly before him.

Listen to this in Revelations

For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”
(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
Rev 19:7-8

If Gods people are not holy, and the acts are not righteous, who are
these people being spoken about?

I am testifying to Gods provision to all, and how washed and clean His people
truly are.

Strangely you are rejecting Gods work of the cross for His bride and people.
Is this because you have not opened up your heart and let him in?

I am not condemning you, I am just puzzled at how Gods word does not echo
with your experience.

 

[PeterJens]

I've highlighted the words that betray you. Take some time to reflect. Apology accepted.
May God open your eyes. Bless you.

You are following an ethic which says if I talk about myself that is wrong, or others.
I have to talk about Jesus exclusively except he says things like this,


Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matt 6:1-4

Notice the highlighted words. And notice "your righteousness". Jesus is saying we are
righteous, walking in His ways, acceptable and blessed by Him.

So it appears to me you are following a different morality to Christ and a different system
of good and evil.

So I do not understand your reference, because it simply is not sane, but it is imprisoning
and condemning, so you reject the very word of God.

 

[gb9]

You are following an ethic which says if I talk about myself that is wrong, or others.
I have to talk about Jesus exclusively except he says things like this,


Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matt 6:1-4

Notice the highlighted words. And notice "your righteousness". Jesus is saying we are
righteous, walking in His ways, acceptable and blessed by Him.

So it appears to me you are following a different morality to Christ and a different system
of good and evil.

So I do not understand your reference, because it simply is not sane, but it is imprisoning
and condemning, so you reject the very word of God.

we do not reject the Word of God, we do reject your ( wrong ) interpretation of it.