Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

[mailmandan]

But if a non genuine believer believes they are saved without obeying God to the best they can then to them there so called fake salvation can be lost. If your faith not true salvation can be lost.

Are we saved through faith or through our best efforts to obey God/works?

 

[dcontroversal]

You have faith, and I have works.”[b]Show me your faith without works, and I will show you faith from my works.[c] 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. The demons also believe—and they shudder.
20Foolish man! Are you willing to learn that faith without works is useless? 21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected.

Good works comes from genuine faith. Together they are united.

Paul wrote almost half of the NT....HE said Abraham was justified BEFORE GOD BY FAITH VOID OF WORKS
JAMES wrote 1 book and said Abraham's FAITH was JUSTIFIED before MEN by HIS WORKS

Get your facts straight!

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You make scripture out to be like a simple person can't understand it with all your breaking down of scripture. It's not hard to read God's word and the scriptures I posted are nit hard to understand. You live how you want but for me I will do my best to obey God and trust in him. No one is saved if they don't obey God. Obeying God shows love for God.

 

[mailmandan]

There are none.........they all say that works are the result of salvation that one already possesses........Abraham was justified before God by faith without works.......His faith was seen by men based upon the works that were produced because he was saved.....workers for will find out when they stand before God and boast of their right to enter based upon their wonderful works in his name....only to be cast........

Amen! Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) through faith and not works (Romans 4:2-3) and was justified (shown to be righteous) by works (James 2:21).

Works-salvationists cannot seem to grasp that James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Paul wrote almost half of the NT....HE said Abraham was justified BEFORE GOD BY FAITH VOID OF WORKS
JAMES wrote 1 book and said Abraham's FAITH was JUSTIFIED before MEN by HIS WORKS

Get your facts straight!

So we pick and choose scriptures now? And no Paul didn't exclude the works of God's commandments and teachings. That's the works we are to have with faith.

 

[mailmandan]

You make scripture out to be like a simple person can't understand it with all your breaking down of scripture. It's not hard to read God's word and the scriptures I posted are nit hard to understand. You live how you want but for me I will do my best to obey God and trust in him. No one is saved if they don't obey God. Obeying God shows love for God.

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and the Lord Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Are we saved through faith or through our best efforts to obey God/works?

Both they intertwine you can't have one without the other

 

[mailmandan]

So your saying I suggested my works would save me alone?

What I continue to hear you say is that we are saved by faith AND WORKS.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen! Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) through faith and not works (Romans 4:2-3) and was justified (shown to be righteous) by works (James 2:21).

Works-salvationists cannot seem to grasp that James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

Amen and You know I agree......false teachers are compared to 3 men in Jude.....the first on the list is CAIN who offered his works.....Many (plenteous in number) will come before Jesus boasting of their works...just like those in here pushing works blended with faith....only to be denied and cast into hell.....Galatians is clear...

THOSE who believe they are saved BY FAITH and then PERFECTED by their works preach a false gospel with no power to save and a gospel that is double cursed......end of story.....

FAITH and FAITH alone is what ETERNALLY SAVES
GENUINE FAITH that ETERNALLY SAVES will produce (after growth and maturity)

END of STORY..........GOOD LUCK WORKERS for SALVATION....except your righteousness exceed the PHARISEES......your bumming!

 

[garee]

Saved by Grace through faith and with faith produces good works. Obey God or don't obey God. Are you trying to say it doesn't matter if we obey God or not to be saved?

we are saved by grace of Christ through Christ's work of faith not a work of our own-selves lest any man boast. If he has begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it just as he says he will and did .It is finished and gave up the Spirt ..

Christ our faithful creator does no have dead faith. Faith without works is dead just as his body without his spirit is.

 

[mailmandan]

Both they intertwine you can't have one without the other

Intertwine? Roman Catholics say that we are saved through faith "infused with works." Is that what you mean by intertwine? As I said many times before, faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Faith is not defined as works. Faith is faith and works are works.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and the Lord Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer?

My answer would be you are my savior and King

 

[dcontroversal]

What I continue to hear you say is that we are saved by faith AND WORKS.

Galatians....a gospel (heteros) of a DIFFERENT KIND....double cursed and NO POWER TO SAVE....the save false gospel believed by the "plenteous in number" that come before JESUS boasting of their WORKS in HIS NAME......HE NEVER knew them....why?.....they tried a different door...that door being FAITH plus WORKS for salvation!

 

[mailmandan]

My answer would be you are my savior and King

Are you trusting exclusively in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation OR are you also trusting in your best efforts to obey Christ/produce works to help save you?

 

[dcontroversal]

So we pick and choose scriptures now? And no Paul didn't exclude the works of God's commandments and teachings. That's the works we are to have with faith.

Kind of like you do by yanking JAMES out of context while ignoring verbiage to peddle your false gospel?

 

[dcontroversal]

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and the Lord Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer?

Jesus already told us what he would say.....Lord, LORD did I not do many wonderful works in your name.............

 

[Roughsoul1991]

So let me get this straight. How is good fruit produced?

 

[PeterJens]

Kind of like you do by yanking JAMES out of context while ignoring verbiage to peddle your false gospel?

This is very abusive and provocative language.
You are calling a brother a false teacher.

You are not providing any evidence, just your own force of words, which
is not a good foundation.

By this accusation you are declaring yourself an enemy of the gospel of grace
and love, walking in obedience to His glorious promises we have in Christ.

What you judge will be held against you on the day of judgement.
Every person who stands against Christ while claiming to know Him, is on
sand, which will consume them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What Paul wrote Ephesians 1 is;
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth,the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Yes,and because of that SEAL, your salvation, and all the things Paul said in the first 12 verses are yours also. And your salvation is guaranteed..

Where does the bible say Judas was never saved

What the theif who stole from them from day one, also called the son of perdition (satans minister)

and what in 1st John 2 are you referring to?

The part that says if someone leaves the church and becomes an anti christ, he was never truly a part of the church.

Do you think all the apostles but Judas were saved? Seeing as Peter denied Jesus don't you think 1st John 2 is applicable to Peter? How about John 6:66?

Peter did not leave the church, And Jesus did not tell him to repent. He encouraged him.

How about the rest of John 6, Where jesus said whoever had faith in him would never hunger, never die, Never thirst, Live forever, HAS eternal life, and will be risen on the last day?

Jesus said many did not believe, Judas was one of them, how do we know? Look what he did..

That is also not in scripture but is a doctrinal point of view. Where in scripture does it say you cannot walk away from God?

Where do we start?

You think you can break the seal of the HS? You think you can pull yourself out of Gods hands? You think you can take what God called eternal, and make him have to lie to himself.

You want to walk away from God? I can only say you ever knew him,, Oh wait, that is exactly what John said in chapter 2..

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Kind of like you do by yanking JAMES out of context while ignoring verbiage to peddle your false gospel?

I didn't yank nothing its word to word