Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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That's fine. I'm just curious if they believe God will save a person once saved but never tried to follow God or live for God. Or do you think salvation will save a guy who goes to church one hour a week and that's the only time he thinks of God. Then when he gets out he goes eat at a restaurant and the week of no God starts all over.
E
i am not ok with trying to fight licentiousness with legalism,
The Jews did that when they returned from babylon, and led many people from a aspect of being ok to living in sin, to being so religious they could not see their need for Christ when he came, and they crucified him,
because they were afraid of easy believing..
The Jews did that when they returned from babylon, and led many people from a aspect of being ok to living in sin, to being so religious they could not see their need for Christ when he came, and they crucified him,
because they were afraid of easy believing..
I agree with your OSAS but faith without works is dead. They cannot be separated.
Our faithful Creator by believing, exercising His faith said; let there be light and there was. It worked.
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Then you might run into those who say; God does not have faith or needed it.
Will their unbelief (no faith) make the faith of God without effect as the work of God , who does the work of effecting? Paul said God forbid.
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the "faith of God" without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Rom 3:3
Our faithful Creator by believing, exercising His faith said; let there be light and there was. It worked.
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Then you might run into those who say; God does not have faith or needed it.
Will their unbelief (no faith) make the faith of God without effect as the work of God , who does the work of effecting? Paul said God forbid.
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the "faith of God" without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Rom 3:3
Hi Mailmandan,
I agree with you that we are saved by FAITH.
BUT, you cannot deny works either.
Works has become an unwelcomed word in Christianity, but it shouldn't be. All Jesus did was speak about works!
Try Mathew 5, for instance. He wanted us to transform our lives in the beatitudes. We cannot transform ourselves without works.
You mentioned Abraham in a post of yours above. You said that Abraham was saved by faith, and indeed he was, as evidenced by his name in the Hall of Fame in Hebrews 11.
But as you read Hebrews 11:8-19
Abraham had the faith to listen to God and to OBEY God and to sacrifice his only son when he was asked to. We know God stopped him, but he would have been willing to do what God asked.
Is this not a work?
We must have faith, but the faith must be an obedient faith.
Ephesians 6:6 tells us that we must obey from the heart.
John 14:21 tells us that it is he who keeps the commandments that loves Jesus.
Romans 1:5 speaks about the obedience to the faith.
Romans 2:13 Not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS of the law shall be justified.
But Jesus fulfilled the Law, you will say. Yes. He FULFILLED the Law BUT He did not abolish the MORAL law.
Mathew 5:17-19
He did leave us with two commandments, Mathew 22:37 and Mathew 22:39
but if we follow these two, we follow them all.
In John 14:15 Jesus Himself says: if you love Me, you will keep my commandments."
I wish works wasn't a dirty word.
Fran
I agree with you that we are saved by FAITH.
BUT, you cannot deny works either.
Works has become an unwelcomed word in Christianity, but it shouldn't be. All Jesus did was speak about works!
Try Mathew 5, for instance. He wanted us to transform our lives in the beatitudes. We cannot transform ourselves without works.
You mentioned Abraham in a post of yours above. You said that Abraham was saved by faith, and indeed he was, as evidenced by his name in the Hall of Fame in Hebrews 11.
But as you read Hebrews 11:8-19
Abraham had the faith to listen to God and to OBEY God and to sacrifice his only son when he was asked to. We know God stopped him, but he would have been willing to do what God asked.
Is this not a work?
We must have faith, but the faith must be an obedient faith.
Ephesians 6:6 tells us that we must obey from the heart.
John 14:21 tells us that it is he who keeps the commandments that loves Jesus.
Romans 1:5 speaks about the obedience to the faith.
Romans 2:13 Not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS of the law shall be justified.
But Jesus fulfilled the Law, you will say. Yes. He FULFILLED the Law BUT He did not abolish the MORAL law.
Mathew 5:17-19
He did leave us with two commandments, Mathew 22:37 and Mathew 22:39
but if we follow these two, we follow them all.
In John 14:15 Jesus Himself says: if you love Me, you will keep my commandments."
I wish works wasn't a dirty word.
Fran
A
Not an evil person, just one who doesn't understand the fullness of God's love and grace.
I believe many claim to be saved but are not. However, if you have the Holy Spirit, proclaiming you a child of God. God will NEVER abandon you.
I wonder though, how many truly have the seal of the Holy Spirit?
We see in Acts that there were some people who had to wait before receiving the Holy Spirit.
God moves in His timing, not ours.
Until Aldergate, John Wesley didn't .
I believe many claim to be saved but are not. However, if you have the Holy Spirit, proclaiming you a child of God. God will NEVER abandon you.
I wonder though, how many truly have the seal of the Holy Spirit?
We see in Acts that there were some people who had to wait before receiving the Holy Spirit.
God moves in His timing, not ours.
Until Aldergate, John Wesley didn't .
DC & EG will always label and attack their enemy, believing their royal war will
bring them down.
The problem is once you have stated your total belief system, and the other side
understand it and given their opinion, there is nothing else to convey.
And using simple triggers like
OSAS - saved
Non-OSAS - unbelief, not saved
is so simplistic as to be meaningless.
But in their faith unbelief is the only sin left for Gods judgement, so you are arguing
with people who have a totally different belief system, which they do not openly
admit to, which makes it all a joke.
So where is the integrity, or acknowledging people honest experiences in Christ,
and their walk of salvation. It is more like a pair of evil spirits mocking from the side
lines distracting Gods elect from their true mission of spreading the gospel of love
and victory over sin through the cross.
bring them down.
The problem is once you have stated your total belief system, and the other side
understand it and given their opinion, there is nothing else to convey.
And using simple triggers like
OSAS - saved
Non-OSAS - unbelief, not saved
is so simplistic as to be meaningless.
But in their faith unbelief is the only sin left for Gods judgement, so you are arguing
with people who have a totally different belief system, which they do not openly
admit to, which makes it all a joke.
So where is the integrity, or acknowledging people honest experiences in Christ,
and their walk of salvation. It is more like a pair of evil spirits mocking from the side
lines distracting Gods elect from their true mission of spreading the gospel of love
and victory over sin through the cross.
E
Paul never said we are saved by faith plus works, he went out of his way to prove faith plus works is an oxymoron.
Paul said those saved, Will obey, because they trust God.. and because they were made new creatures.. created for good works.. It is their nature. Meaning it is AGAINST that new nature to sin, and sit down and do nothing..
Paul said those saved, Will obey, because they trust God.. and because they were made new creatures.. created for good works.. It is their nature. Meaning it is AGAINST that new nature to sin, and sit down and do nothing..
Mailman,
Can we not say that they are united because one causes the other??
We are saved FOR good works, not by good works.
OK.
But if good works MUST follow as even a sign, as some will say, then could we not say that God requires also the good works?
Did Jesus not speak about being cut off of the vine of it does not bear fruit?
I fail to grasp the difference between what you are saying and what I'm saying.
It seems like we're saying the same thing, but then you seem to put works down in some way...
I only persist because I think this is dangerous for some out there who want to be Christian and do what they want, or do nothing, and still be a member of the Kingdom. So this is more for those following along than for you.
Fran