I would disagree. It does not contradict itself if I say I have been saved (past tense) Am Saved (present tense) and will be saved.
For that is eternal life.
I was saved at a point in time, I am saved right now, and I will be saved in the future when my Salvation is completed.
It is very dangerous when we go changing the meanings of words, or symbolizing them. That was the main issue with the roman church which was the church by force for centuries, They could not get the word to fit their belief system, so they figuratively changed the meanings of words to fit their doctrines.
im new here so be patient with me as i try to figure out how to do these responses with the quotes and trying to remember what the quotes im responding to are actually in reference to . lol ive already had to restart this a few times trying to get it right .. lol
first thing i want to point out is that you said that you are saved but then turn around and say its not complete . so if its not complete how can you say youre saved(which the way youre using the word saved , its complete already) ? to me that in itself is reason enough to question whether "have been saved" and "will be saved" have the same meanings . to me what youre saying is actually changing the meanings without you realizing it .thats my opinion and i will let the lord judge that though .
cough cough..
Rom 10: [SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Now granted, it takes more than just saying a prayer True repentance and true humility and true FAITH must be present. or they are just words. and some churches take it to far. But you still must call out to God and ask him into your kardia (in scripture the kardia, or heart is our soul)
from my previous experiences discussing this topic , i am assuming that you are saying that since romans 10:13 says whoever calls on the name of the lord shall be saved ,that it proves the sinners prayer is true because it says we have to call on his name in the beginning in order to be saved.
question , can you use the "use scripture to interpret scripture" method to come to this meaning you are trying to use ? or does using that method make that mean something different ?
would you be able to use that method to say that is how it is used in these verses ?
this is to an established church with born again believers .
1Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
this is to soldiers in the lord who are born again christians already as well. (see verse 3)
2Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
this is to christians as well not unbelievers.
1Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
if the sinners prayer is scriptural , can you give me one example of someone coming to the faith in that way in scripture?
how do you explain the fact that the holy spirit fell upon these people while peter was speaking ? if the sinners prayer is needed to be saved and recieve the holy spirit , how did it come upon these people without them uttering a word and before peter was even done speakiing ? they only heard the word at this point.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
acts alone has at least a dozen or more examples of people coming to the lord . not one gives an example of someone saying a sinners prayer.
another question , why wouldnt peter respond with "you need to call out to him and ask him into your heart"(or what have you) when asked what they need to do to be saved in this verse ?
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
you can interpret the repenting part to say that you need to say outloud or in a prayer that your a sinner, but where is there an example besides the thief on the cross that backs up the idea ?
Actually it does. Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom. He did just that, He prayed, and ask God to remember him.
too much to explain at this time on this part. maybe i will come back to this at some point. however , the explanation does explain the thief on the cross' salvation and can be backed up with numerous examples of others coming to the lord in the same way.
eternal security is found in scripture. It comes from as you say, using scripture to interpret scripture.
The roman church held sway militarily for centuries, anyone who preached eternal life or security would have been murdered as heretics.. so to say some doctrine was not tought by any church until after the reformation, is not a good or usefull tool Much of the reformation kept many of Romes doctrines..
your interpretation says that eternal security is found in scripture . i can say that it is not found in scripture , doesnt mean you or i are interpreting it right . just saying . i would agree that gods promise of salvation is secure and is always there . titus1:2 ,hebrew6:13-20 for instance . that in no way means that it still doesnt depend on us and what we do and how we live our lives which is how youre interpreting it .
Nah, We should question a teaching because we should test all spirit to see if they be from God, But to use this as reasoning.. we need more than that. We should always use scripture. with open minds.
welcome to CC. hope you find your stay peacefull And thank you for sharring. please do not take my disagreeing as an attack, Just sharing what I see.
