Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

[Roughsoul1991]

That assumes anyone would want you to walk away.

either way, God says he would never let go of us. So it could be said, Yes, he would never let us fall away in a sense, that he will never let HIS CHILDREN fall away.. Not sure how this would be a bad thing, Would you let your children fall? I would hope not.

How can I stop my children from doing wrong? I teach them and help them, but it's ultimately up to my children to make the right decisions

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because Peter returned from his falling moment.
And you do the same with scripture.

And no I have listened to a few of you and you have stated the same things over and over. The scripture I post goes hand in hand with hall's. And to be honest Peter's denial was not a heart problem like the verse is referring to. His was a mind problem as in he didn't want to die. Deny God in your heart and he will deny you.

You state the same thing over and over. Why are using these arguments? They go both ways. And are not helping either of us in conversation.

John said an antichrist Denys Jesus (1 John 2: 22) while also saying as a fact they never were part of the church, that is why they left and because Christ deniers.. To expose who they really were.

Your right Peter had a heart issue, he was scared of the Romans.. Who had his master, Many people have the same problem, what gives us the right to condemn them? I can not read a persons Heart.

Yes, we are warned, do not deny Christ If we do , we are an antichrist. And John tells us our state. We are not a part of the body of Christ. S0o if this is our only disagreement, We can agree, they will not get to heaven.

Our difference is you say they lost salvation. I say they were never saved to begin with.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I agree.. In fact I am starting to hate the term OSAS.. People see the term, and sadly I feel do not understand all that it means. That's why we get so many views.

Yes. I said I was OSAS until I saw that some believe a different OSAS than me. So now I have to say I am mostly OSAS but that I don't believe unbelief is covered by the blood, because to my mind to say that would be to believe in universalism. But even that doesn't fully cover it, because there is more....

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Jesus and the apostles never talked about in terms of "once saved always saved" nor did they talk about "one losing their salvation" as in being joined as one spirit with the Lord. They talked about life. God's quality of life - immortal life.

Once we are "in Christ" we can experience God's quality of life by living by faith in what Christ has already done and we inherit or manifest in our lives this quality of life by faith and patience in God's promises to us that are in Christ.

People see the warning scriptures that talk about destruction coming ( start shooting heroin in your arms today and that destruction will come quick ) by walking in the flesh and they think "hell" and God kicking them out of being a child of God.

How do we get destroyed while on this earth and in these bodies - by not participating in God's quality of life that is in Christ and we get that by walking by the spirit - the new creation that is in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

The NT speaks 95% on life and how to obtain life. But there are warnings on how to lose life. We do not have life if we do not drink from the water if life. We do not have life if people who willfully, publically and explicitly reject Jesus as Savior after having confessed him, or, as in the gospels, to those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by declaring that the works of Jesus were the works of the Evil one.

 

[PrynceNY]

What is to say than anyone who Denys God does it willingly out of their heart. Petere did it because he was scared. He thought he would be arrested to. His faith was weak. Jesus correct red him later. When he told him to feed his sheep. Who, who has true saving faith out of a true repentant heart would ever deny God. Who saved them? That is what I would like to know. Joh said if a person becomes an antichrist (one who Denys Christ) they were never saved, so using this to say one can LOSE salvation goes against what the apostle John said to begin with. Does it not?

Christ told peter before hand he will deny him 3 times before the rooster crows. I don't know where you got he was scared, he was obeying what the lord said. I'm sure it saddened him to do it but scared? I doubt. Yes he did think he would be arrested but im sure he was more concerned about what the lord told him than being arrested. Plus Christ already told them they would be persecuted. I personally don't really get into the osas debate. I just suggest to people to repent and seek the lord for forgiveness when they rebel against him. I fear people who believe in the osas doctrine may think they don't need to ask for forgiveness because in their minds they are always saved.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You state the same thing over and over. Why are using these arguments? They go both ways. And are not helping either of us in conversation.

John said an antichrist Denys Jesus (1 John 2: 22) while also saying as a fact they never were part of the church, that is why they left and because Christ deniers.. To expose who they really were.

Your right Peter had a heart issue, he was scared of the Romans.. Who had his master, Many people have the same problem, what gives us the right to condemn them? I can not read a persons Heart.

Yes, we are warned, do not deny Christ If we do , we are an antichrist. And John tells us our state. We are not a part of the body of Christ. S0o if this is our only disagreement, We can agree, they will not get to heaven.

Our difference is you say they lost salvation. I say they were never saved to begin with.

No one can lose something or gain something that's given to them as a gift. The point is what does everyone do with that gift. God only asks of one thing to have faith in him. But by having faith this shows we want to follow God

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You state the same thing over and over. Why are using these arguments? They go both ways. And are not helping either of us in conversation.

John said an antichrist Denys Jesus (1 John 2: 22) while also saying as a fact they never were part of the church, that is why they left and because Christ deniers.. To expose who they really were.

Your right Peter had a heart issue, he was scared of the Romans.. Who had his master, Many people have the same problem, what gives us the right to condemn them? I can not read a persons Heart.

Yes, we are warned, do not deny Christ If we do , we are an antichrist. And John tells us our state. We are not a part of the body of Christ. S0o if this is our only disagreement, We can agree, they will not get to heaven.

Our difference is you say they lost salvation. I say they were never saved to begin with.

So Peter denied Jesus, denied even knowing Him, to save his life. So was peter an antichrist?
And another place Jesus actually called him satan.
So peter peter denied Jesus, yet Jesus didn't deny peter.
How much of that had to do with peter repenting and returning?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Christ told peter before hand he will deny him 3 times before the rooster crows. I don't know where you got he was scared, he was obeying what the lord said. I'm sure it saddened him to do it but scared? I doubt. Yes he did think he would be arrested but im sure he was more concerned about what the lord told him than being arrested. Plus Christ already told them they would be persecuted. I personally don't really get into the osas debate. I just suggest to people to repent and seek the lord for forgiveness when they rebel against him. I fear people who believe in the osas doctrine may think they don't need to ask for forgiveness because in their minds they are always saved.

I've never heard quite this view...peter denied Jesus so that he could obey what Jesus said would happen? He didn't want to deny Him but had to bite his lip and do it to be obedient...? That sounds so odd to me...

 

[Grace777x70]

The NT speaks 95% on life and how to obtain life. But there are warnings on how to lose life. We do not have life if we do not drink from the water if life. We do not have life if people who willfully, publically and explicitly reject Jesus as Savior after having confessed him, or, as in the gospels, to those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by declaring that the works of Jesus were the works of the Evil one.

We "obtain life" by Christ alone and what He has already done for us and no other method. There is a massive difference between having things happen to us in this life because of walking by the flesh and in being with the Lord for eternity. We are joined as one spirit with the Lord.

Once a believer finds out what happened to them in Christ when He died on the cross - we died with Him and when He rose from the dead - so did we. Once we have an understanding of this we will start to grow in the Lord. Other than that we are playing "What if I lose my salvation games". It's a ploy from the enemy.


Jesus said "He who drinks of Me shall never thirst again for from his belly will flow river of living water unto everlasting life".

Of course those that reject Christ as Savior will not have life because they were never in Christ. We are saved when we believe from the heart. Not in our heads or minds. Is it possible to be messed up in our heads? Does someone sick in body and die - do they go to hell now?

They can be sick in their minds as well from various things but their heart is still in Christ - where Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be in us and with us forever - John 14:16 ( - well unless Jesus turns out to a liar. Myself - I choose to believe that Jesus is not a liar and that He speaks the truth of His love and grace towards us and that His blood speaks of better things)

Tell me how does one get separate from Christ once we have died with Christ and have risen with Him?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You state the same thing over and over. Why are using these arguments? They go both ways. And are not helping either of us in conversation.

John said an antichrist Denys Jesus (1 John 2: 22) while also saying as a fact they never were part of the church, that is why they left and because Christ deniers.. To expose who they really were.

Your right Peter had a heart issue, he was scared of the Romans.. Who had his master, Many people have the same problem, what gives us the right to condemn them? I can not read a persons Heart.

Yes, we are warned, do not deny Christ If we do , we are an antichrist. And John tells us our state. We are not a part of the body of Christ. S0o if this is our only disagreement, We can agree, they will not get to heaven.

Our difference is you say they lost salvation. I say they were never saved to begin with.

If any person that does not follow God who believes they are saved, but as you say they was never saved. Then that opens the door to every time I fall from God for awhile then maybe I wasn't truly saved. In my past I fell away from God for months until God spoke to me through his Word. God telling me Son are you going to fully follow me or not? You can't be half way. It comes down to that decision am I going to fully follow God or half or none. This world really does it best to make us too busy for God and people only half follow him. Half following God will lead to he'll just as much as none.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Jesus said "He who drinks of Me shall never thirst again for from his belly will flow river of living water unto everlasting life".

Of course those that reject Christ as Savior will not have life because they were never in Christ. We are saved when we believe from the heart. Not in our heads or minds. Is it possible to be messed up in our heads? Does someone sick in body and die - do they go to hell now?

They can be sick in their minds as well from various things but their heart is still in Christ - where Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be in us and with us forever - John 14:16 ( - well unless Jesus turns out to a liar. Myself - I choose to believe that Jesus is not a liar and that He speaks the truth of His love and grace towards us and that His blood speaks of better things)

Tell me how does one get separate from Christ once we have died with Christ and have risen with Him?

As it says drinks which to me sounds continually. And as such then yes the Holy spirit will remain in US.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I've never heard quite this view...peter denied Jesus so that he could obey what Jesus said would happen? He didn't want to deny Him but had to bite his lip and do it to be obedient...? That sounds so odd to me...

Yah because he wept afterwards. That's not a sign of following, but of wrongdoing

 

[PrynceNY]

I've never heard quite this view...peter denied Jesus so that he could obey what Jesus said would happen? He didn't want to deny Him but had to bite his lip and do it to be obedient...? That sounds so odd to me...

Matthew 26:34 - “Truly I tell you, Jesus declared, “- this very night before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” Peter replied, “Even if I must die with You, I will never deny You.” And the rest of the disciples said the same.…

As the scriptures state peter didnt want to deny him. Peter clearly didn't care about death let alone being afraid to be arrested

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Matthew 26:34 - “Truly I tell you, Jesus declared, “- this very night before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” Peter replied, “Even if I must die with You, I will never deny You.” And the rest of the disciples said the same.… As the scriptures state peter didnt want to deny him but out of obedience to the lord he did. Peter clearly didn't care about death let alone being afraid to be arrested

So what of pharaoh? He was in obedience to God?
And Israel? They were obeying God and did not want to kill the prophet but they had no choice and had to do it because they wanted to be obedient, since God had said: go tell them but they will not listen to you...?

 

[Grace777x70]

As it says drinks which to me sounds continually. And as such then yes the Holy spirit will remain in US.

LOL...buddy....you come up a thousand different ways to not believe in what our Lord Jesus Christ has said and has done for us and to rely on what we do instead. That is one horrible way to live my friend.

If Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with you and in you forever - this is why you will never thirst again and can drink from Him. Religion always gets the gospel backwards in order to make it dependent on us.

I pray my friend you see what Christ has done for you and then you can walk free of any worry or thoughts of the enemy coming to destroy you. This is the very mindset that satan is using to attack your brother right now but the Lord will reveal Himself to him.

 

[88]

Matthew 26:34 - “Truly I tell you, Jesus declared, “- this very night before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” Peter replied, “Even if I must die with You, I will never deny You.” And the rest of the disciples said the same.…

As the scriptures state peter didnt want to deny him. Peter clearly didn't care about death let alone being afraid to be arrested

*****The fact that Christ knew Peter would deny Him had nothing to do with Peter's free will or----that he had to obey the Lord by denying Him...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I almost never have said to anyone that what they say or think is ridiculous and completely without even human reasoning but I'm having to really bite my tongue to not do so with this post...so I am thinking I am just not understanding what he means...

 

[PrynceNY]

So what of pharaoh? He was in obedience to God? And Israel? They were obeying God and did not want to kill the prophet but they had no choice and had to do it because they wanted to be obedient, since God had said: go tell them but they will not listen to you...?

As far as pharoah to my knowledge he wasn't Godly & was a brutal dictator. In some cases viewing himself as a God.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And Israel killing the prophet?

As far as pharoah to my knowledge he wasn't Godly & was a brutal dictator. In some cases viewing himself as a God.

 

[PrynceNY]

*****The fact that Christ knew Peter would deny Him had nothing to do with Peter's free will or----that he had to obey the Lord by denying Him...

Then why he told peter to begin with, you think he said it just to be saying it?