Prodigal son - eternally saved or the lost who found God

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#21
Why, because he's called the prodigal son?
His own father said he was dead & lost.....What does it take to get you people to just read your Bibles, & not read into them?
What will it take for you to stop inserting your own belief system into the word. and not interpret it as it is written. Using what is said as context.

He never said he stopped being the son (nor he COULD STOP)



1. He was the son, A son never stops being a son (well maybe you would disown your son? would not matter, he would still be YOUR SON)
2. He was dead (he had no access to his fathers help or blessings on earth)
3. He was lost. (he did not know where he was going, He thought he knew, but he found out he was wrong, as all prodigal children do)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#22
So? That still does not change the fact that if He did not come back to His dad he would have died..

He came back, And if he was a real perosn, would have still died.. No one lives forever.. So this logic is sort of flawed.


To be saved we must repent and believe in the Way our Father in heaven has made to save us.. If we don't then we shall die the first and the second death..
If he never repented to begin with, he never would have been the son. So again, your logic is flawed.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#23
So? That still does not change the fact that if He did not come back to His dad he would have died..

To be saved we must repent and believe in the Way our Father in heaven has made to save us.. If we don't then we shall die the first and the second death..
Dead or alive, the son never stopped being the the father's son.

"Bring the best robe, bring a ring for his finger and shoes for his feet, kill the fatted calf and let us eat and be merry for this, my son, was dead and is alive again. He was lost and is found."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#24
1. I was a prodigal for 5 years. So do not try to tell me what it is, I experienced it.
2. You are in the kingdom because you have faith in God.. Because of that, YOU DO HIS WILL

when will people stop preaching religion. and how they earn their way into Gods grace. When will they get on their knees and ask God for his salvation..

This saddens me to no end.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#25

He never said he stopped being the son (nor he COULD STOP)
On the argument about not stopping being a son, this is John the Baptists opinion on the
right of birth as sons.

You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 3:7-10

I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.
John 8:37-38

He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.
John 12:40

There are some hear who could hear the truth but their hearts are hard, and have
rejected it. The plain truth of scripture they will change to their own ends, because
scripture is written as a judgement of the state of who you are.

Do not think that everyone know the Kingdom or the King. The fruit of their lips will
testify to there authority.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,486
3,526
113
#26

He came back, And if he was a real perosn, would have still died.. No one lives forever.. So this logic is sort of flawed.



If he never repented to begin with, he never would have been the son. So again, your logic is flawed.
You are switching back from the literal to the symbolic,, back and forward back and forward.. The story was a Parrable and therefore symbolic with a spiritual meaning.. Please stop going backwards and forwards between literal and symbolic as a debating tactic...

All human beings are created by God.. All human beings are therefore sons of God in a symbolic way.. Therefore the door is open to ALL mankind and we are ALL able to be sons of God. Who so ever comes to God and believes Him shall be saved..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,486
3,526
113
#27
Dead or alive, the son never stopped being the the father's son.

"Bring the best robe, bring a ring for his finger and shoes for his feet, kill the fatted calf and let us eat and be merry for this, my son, was dead and is alive again. He was lost and is found."
Once again if he never came back to His dad and repented he would have died in his sins..
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#28
Once again if he never came back to His dad and repented he would have died in his sins..
He would have died as a son of his father.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,486
3,526
113
#29
1. I was a prodigal for 5 years. So do not try to tell me what it is, I experienced it.
2. You are in the kingdom because you have faith in God.. Because of that, YOU DO HIS WILL

when will people stop preaching religion. and how they earn their way into Gods grace. When will they get on their knees and ask God for his salvation..

This saddens me to no end.
You keep on throwing these accusations around... throwing mud in the hope that some of it sticks..

I never at any stage have said that we are not saved by grace alone through Jesus alone... The Son in the parable was saved because His dad had love and mercy for him.. Nothing the son had upon his return could pay for his Dads love and mercy.. The son was broke... But the son still had to turn around and come back and repent...
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#30
13 “A few days later the younger son gathered up all that he had and left. He traveled far away to another country, and there he wasted his money living like a fool. 14 After he spent everything he had, there was a terrible famine throughout the country. He was hungry and needed money. 15 So he went and got a job with one of the people who lived there. The man sent him into the fields to feed pigs. 16 He was so hungry that he wanted to eat the food the pigs were eating. But no one gave him anything.


So he went and got a job, a job that paid, yet was he still wasting his money? and finally took looking at the pigs feed and thinking food.

Interesting the "man" who the prodigal son went too the "man" give him a job. IMO in theory this mans ear could have been tickled..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
You are switching back from the literal to the symbolic,, back and forward back and forward.. The story was a Parrable and therefore symbolic with a spiritual meaning.. Please stop going backwards and forwards between literal and symbolic as a debating tactic...

This is all you have? Is this what we do when we can't make scripture agree with itself?


Your the one who said he would die.. That was not my argument.

All human beings are created by God.. All human beings are therefore sons of God in a symbolic way..
That is universalism at its finest.

I chose to use Gods word. John 1: 12. children of God are given that right BECAUSE they have faiht in God (believe in his name)


Therefore the door is open to ALL mankind and we are ALL able to be sons of God.
Now who is going back and forth, You first said we are sins, then you said we have the ability to, which is it?

Yes we all have the ability to. We are born in adam, dead to christ, so we are not born sons, able to leave. We never were a son to begin with


Who so ever comes to God and believes Him shall be saved..
Yep. which means the prodigal son had done this before he left with his father inheritance..
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,785
4,453
113
#33
Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’

28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

Luke 15:11-31


The prodigal son
1. Took his rights - Father, give me my share of the estate
2. He went his own way - got together all he had, set off for a distant country
3. He realised his mistake - he came to his senses
4. He repented and returned to his father - Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son
5. The fathers response was - son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found

Now some suppose the son was always a son.
Jesus is saying the son sinned and disowned all he had and who he was. He
walked away for the safe secure and blessed place with his father.

To his father he was now dead, lost, gone forever.
Restoration was because the son came back, accepted servant hood, admitted sin
and wanted forgiveness, which the father was willing and joyful to give.

Some suppose to leave the father, to rebel, to sin is not why judgement is coming,
rather you are still a son so saved.

This is pure universalism.
As sons we inherit the authority of our Father, so equally if we rebel against Him,
we inherit his anger and judgement. You cannot have one without the other.
Very true he will always be his son but willingly walked away from what was owed to him. The Father cannot give to the son his inheritance if the son rejects it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
You keep on throwing these accusations around... throwing mud in the hope that some of it sticks..

Actually the accusation was thrown at me, I was just giving a view on that accusation. I lost hope that it would stick along time ago, it does not mean I stop trying.


I never at any stage have said that we are not saved by grace alone through Jesus alone... The Son in the parable was saved because His dad had love and mercy for him.. Nothing the son had upon his return could pay for his Dads love and mercy.. The son was broke... But the son still had to turn around and come back and repent...

That highlighted bold part. That is the part the turns grace to legalism, and makes it a works based gospel.

you first said you could do nothing, then you said YOU HAD TO DO SOMETHING.

you contradicted yourself. I hope and pray you can see it..
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#35
What is interesting to me is the lines of argument.

The prodigal son, is a son so actually not rejected or lost, because they are called a son.
But everyone is a son of someone, so this is a reality of life but not a spiritual reality.

And to take the interpretation the prodigal son could be lost to hell is too much.
But why? This is a parable, with the theme of spiritual realities, of being lost and
then found.

So something deeper is being argued here but not declared openly.

And this is not an argument it is a spiritual condemnation attempt. It is an accusation
that some are "twisting" Gods word. The implication is evil is being done, even sin.

Now this is a bible discussion forum, looking at different interpretations, not saying
which is right, but rather saying this is one perspective.

What drives me is to find Gods perspective. So I want to compare it with spiritual
realities taught by Christ and the apostles as see how the parable fits in.

I am happy to accept if the term son means they are actually saved, and this parable
is no matter where you stand you are saved, that is good. But other than the term
"son" I do not see anything else here, and Jesus and John were very hard on those
in rebellion without repentance as doomed to Hell.

So where else is the argument son means saved?

Or is this something about hatred of a certain group and their style of teaching?
 
Last edited:

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,486
3,526
113
#37

This is all you have? Is this what we do when we can't make scripture agree with itself?


Your the one who said he would die.. That was not my argument.



That is universalism at its finest.

I chose to use Gods word. John 1: 12. children of God are given that right BECAUSE they have faiht in God (believe in his name)




Now who is going back and forth, You first said we are sins, then you said we have the ability to, which is it?

Yes we all have the ability to. We are born in adam, dead to christ, so we are not born sons, able to leave. We never were a son to begin with




Yep. which means the prodigal son had done this before he left with his father inheritance..
Now you are going beyond the bounds of sanity.. I have on more then one occasion posted strongly against the doctrines of universalism in here.. universalism teaches that all humanity will be saved.. Here i am in this very thread supporting the point that people will die the first and the second death if they do not believe Jesus and repent their sins by acknowledging them to their Father and you are accusing me of being a universalist ?????????

You have allowed your emotions to get the better of you.. To the point of throwing totally illogical accusations...
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,089
8,751
113
#39
Very true he will always be his son but willingly walked away from what was owed to him. The Father cannot give to the son his inheritance if the son rejects it.
The Scripture specifically says he received his inheritance. Between that, and the fact that the Father says everything else is going to the older son, I believe the inheritance blown by the Prodigal son is the eternal rewards, or position in the Kingdom he would have received. NOT HIS SALVATION. Maybe he will be one of the least in the Kingdom, but he will be there nonetheless.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#40
I am saddened that people want to turn a parable used to show Gods love, and twist it to support their attempt to earn salvation by their own power.

1. The prodigal son has his fathers blood. No matter how far away he left. He still had his fathers blood. Thus he was and will always be his fathers son. (we as Gods children have the blood of Christ. thus as children will always be his son, no matter how far away we go, but remember, We can not go anywhere God is not.. soo..)

2. The prodigal son did what all who walk away and try to do things on their own do. Find that trying to live apart from your fathers gifts and blessings does not go very well. The longer away you stay, the further you will fall.. Fail to return, and you may even die. but you will always be the son.
What of Esau who sold his birth right for a bowl of stew?