Women Pastors? Help me.

[Dino246]

How is it moot? Please explain why you think that.

The question of whether a consequence was lifted or not is moot, because consequences continue until they run their course. The course of consequences of the Fall run their course until we die or this world is destroyed in the fire. Punishments can be revoked; consequences usually aren't.

God has always been about ORDER, who is in charge of this, who is in charge of that. ORDER, Chain of Command. It is written in the Word of God,

Husband Rules over the wife.
Wife obey her husband in everything.
Wife make sure to reverence her husband.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say that because Adam was formed first, husbands are to "rule" their wives. Nor does it say anywhere that "wives are to obey their husbands in everything". Rather, Ephesians 5 tells wives to "submit to" their husbands. Children and slaves are to obey. "Obey" and "submit" are not true synonyms.

These things are to be DONE, not undone. not ignored, not made void, not interpreted away to mean something else. Scriptures are clear what ORDER God set up from Adam and Eve. It's not Eve and Adam.

The issue of "order" as you call it, is your interpretation. You seem very concerned about this. Only because of the wickedness of the human heart is there concern about which is in charge. Truly, Jesus is the One in charge. Both must submit to His Lordship.

Agreed, it's not "Eve and Adam" but it also isn't "Adam over Eve". Rather, it is "Adam and Eve"... together, partners alongside one another. Sequence, not hierarchy.

There are two types of Women Christians in the world. Those who Believe and DO what the Word of God says, and Those who don't DO what it says.

Same goes for males; your point adds nothing to the discussion.

Please excuse my ignorance, i have no clue as to what you are saying here. please enlighten my ignorance.

Our nicknames (Dino246, DiscipleDave, Demi777 etc.) are printed at the top left of each posting in blue for males and pink for females.

Very True, and there are many poor interpretations. Interpretations belong to God NOT to men.

Interpretation of prophecy belongs to God (2 Peter 1:20). Interpretation of Scripture is for humans. It is practically impossible to read Scripture and not interpret. I've clarified this previously.

 

[samuel23]

I am one man who has never tried to rule over any woman or any other man for that matter. I do not like to dominate anyone and I do not like anyone to try to dominate me. When it comes to men doing the speaking and therefore the leading in a mixed assembly, I believe it to be true because it is clearly in the bible and therefore from God.

 

[Dino246]

I am one man who has never tried to rule over any woman or any other man for that matter. I do not like to dominate anyone and I do not like anyone to try to dominate me. When it comes to men doing the speaking and therefore the leading in a mixed assembly, I believe it to be true because it is clearly in the bible and therefore from God.

You keep writing this, and I keep pointing out that this particular set of words is not in Scripture. If you would just quote Scripture instead of paraphrasing your interpretation of it, I might let it go. Maybe.

 

[sc81]

being a pastor is the only role women aren't permitted to do, yet they are still pushing to get it, as it said in genesis the wife will constantly be trying to usurp the husbands role, it's the same in church, the only job they aren't allowed to do they want.

 

[wolfwint]

Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

So according to these verses, women can teach women and that is OK with God.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

I agree with you. I never said they could not teach.

 

[garee]

The Bible also teaches they are to reverence their husband, obey their husband in everything, and they are to be taught to obey their husband. All these are teachings that is in OUR Scriptures. False doctrines that spring up, make women equal to men in that regard.

The wife summits to the love her husband shows. Just as the son submits to the father, One serves the other, both working together as one.

They are created as the same creation the submission is equal. Just as Christ submitted to the father, the father in mutually submitted Christ. Together as one work they produced salvation, as the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding..

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Gen 1:27

Image is manifested glory in respect to the two . Father and Son are one just as man and woman

She is the same creation, female is part of the him not a separate creation and is why female is not mentioned with the; "image of God created he him". Can't have one without the other or the glory is not made perfect.

Sounds like you are describing the Muslim union where men are served by the woman other wise they should be silent.

The female was not created as a separate being, second to the male.Unlike the animal kingdom. He created them separate.

Greater positions do not make the person greater or lesser.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

The father and Son make up one God.The work of salvation is one work by two. The Father submitted to the Son in perfect harmony while the Son submits to the father. Same with men and woman .

The father is in greater position not person .The father and Son are one, they don't work to become one.

True Christianity elevates the woman to her created status, equal to the man. Help meet is the lower position not lower person. Help meet is not synonymous with assistant, servant, minion, or subordinate.

 

[followjesus]

The wife summits to love her husband shows. Just as the son submits to the father, One serves the other.

They are created as the same creation the submission is equal. Just as Christ submitted to the father, the father in mutually submitted Christ.Together as one work they produced salvation.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Gen 1:27

Image is manifested glory in respect to the two . Father and Son are one just as man and woman

She is the same creation, female is part of the him not a separate creation and is why female is not mentioned with the; "image of God created he him". Can't have one without the other or the glory is not made perfect.

Sounds like you are describing the Muslim union where men are served by the woman other wise they should be silent.

The female was not created as a separate being, second to the male.Unlike the animal kingdom. He created them separate.

Greater positions do not make the person greater or lesser.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

The father and Son make up one God.The work of salvation is one work by two. The Father submitted to the Son in perfect harmony while the Son submits to the father. Same with men and woman .

The father is in greater position not person .The father and Son are one, they don't work to become one.

True Christianity elevates the woman to her created status, equal to the man. Help meet is the lower position not lower person. Help meet is not synonymous with assistant, servant, minion, or subordinate.

1 corinthians 11:11-12 "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God."

completion in Christ, temptation came through eve to adam. when they sinned the curse to eve part of it was " your desire shall be for your husband, and He will rule over you" God cursed the serpent, eve and then adam. part of eves sentance was that man would rule over women. and woman was created from mans flesh, but through the process of natural birth, men are created from womens flesh. in the church or " in christ" we are the same each to love the other and honor the other above ourselves in a marriage. there are prophetesses in the Bible, and the word says " your sons and daughters will prophecy" Im all for pastors if they are called and annointed be they male or femal, a good annointed word, is a good annointed word, the message should be what we see and care about. is the message true ?

 

[wolfwint]

1 corinthians 11:11-12 "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God."

completion in Christ, temptation came through eve to adam. when they sinned the curse to eve part of it was " your desire shall be for your husband, and He will rule over you" God cursed the serpent, eve and then adam. part of eves sentance was that man would rule over women. and woman was created from mans flesh, but through the process of natural birth, men are created from womens flesh. in the church or " in christ" we are the same each to love the other and honor the other above ourselves in a marriage. there are prophetesses in the Bible, and the word says " your sons and daughters will prophecy" Im all for pastors if they are called and annointed be they male or femal, a good annointed word, is a good annointed word, the message should be what we see and care about. is the message true ?

To me it seems that you only like those Scriptures which supports your view. What has it to do if a woman is prophecies, with to be a Pastor? Its is full clear that male and woman are equal worth in front of God. But this has nothing to do with the role they have given from Him.

 

[StanJ]

OK, my mistake. I assumed that those who would read 1Cor 14:34 would have the intelligence to check the context by reading 1Cor 14:1-34 and would have found that Paul was teaching on the speaking gifts in the church when he told the women to keep silent. Lets look at it once more, first Paul describes all the speaking gifts in the church, then Paul tells the women to keep silent, so that would leave the men to do the speaking.

You have been instructed many times that your understanding of the scripture is flawed yet you refuse to except proper instructions so as far as I'm concerned there's no need to continually tell you what the scriptures mean. 2 Tim 2:15

 

[StanJ]

being a pastor is the only role women aren't permitted to do, yet they are still pushing to get it, as it said in genesis the wife will constantly be trying to usurp the husbands role, it's the same in church, the only job they aren't allowed to do they want.

I think if you would have bothered to read this thread you would have seen many expositions on scripture that show your opinion is wrong. Jesus gave the office of Pastor to the church but there is nowhere in scripture that says a pastor cannot be a woman.

 

[StanJ]

Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
So according to these verses, women can teach women and that is OK with God.

[FONT=&quot]Titus 2:1-8
You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled. 7 In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness8 and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.

These instructions were to the Christian Community as a whole and still are, but they say nothing about a woman not being able to teach a man or vice versa.[/FONT]

 

[StanJ]

To me it seems that you only like those Scriptures which supports your view. What has it to do if a woman is prophecies, with to be a Pastor? Its is full clear that male and woman are equal worth in front of God. But this has nothing to do with the role they have given from Him.

The bottom line is that there is no scripture that indicates a woman cannot be a pastor. If you know of one please share it with us.

 

[sc81]

You have been instructed many times that your understanding of the scripture is flawed yet you refuse to except proper instructions so as far as I'm concerned there's no need to continually tell you what the scriptures mean. 2 Tim 2:15

what makes you think you are right because your understanding of scripture is flawed, because there is no support for female preachers and neither did Jesus care to make 6 female disciples and 6 male disciples so obviously if even Jesus did not see the need for it. I guess 2000 years of christians have been wrong having no female preachers in any major denomination and suddenly the enlightened 21st christians such as yourself are right, I hardly think so.

 

[wolfwint]

Hi Stan, i need some time to answer your last post to me. But I will do. According the Scripture you ignoring 1.Tim. 4,12-14; which i mentioned several times. To be a Pastor means having authority and normal he is also teaching. The only Scripture which can support your view, is if Junia means a woman. Till now i found that the scholars are not unique in the translation for an woman. To create a doctrine from an unshure saying is very questionable, if all other Scriptures say the opposite. I mean I will not stopp the running horse, but I must not support a false doctrine, too. Again this has nothing to do with the worth which have male and female before God.

 

[StanJ]

what makes you think you are right because your understanding of scripture is flawed, because there is no support for female preachers and neither did Jesus care to make 6 female disciples and 6 male disciples so obviously if even Jesus did not see the need for it. I guess 2000 years of christians have been wrong having no female preachers in any major denomination and suddenly the enlightened 21st christians such as yourself are right, I hardly think so.

Firstly I was not addressing you and secondly read the thread before making unsubstantiated comments. Have you personally been around for the past two thousand years? Do you personally know that there've never been women pastors up until the 20th century? I personally know for a fact that they've been around for a lot longer than you think they have. They were around at the very onset of Christianity.

 

[StanJ]

Hi Stan, i need some time to answer your last post to me. But I will do. According the Scripture you ignoring 1.Tim. 4,12-14; which i mentioned several times. To be a Pastor means having authority and normal he is also teaching. The only Scripture which can support your view, is if Junia means a woman. Till now i found that the scholars are not unique in the translation for an woman. To create a doctrine from an unshure saying is very questionable, if all other Scriptures say the opposite. I mean I will not stopp the running horse, but I must not support a false doctrine, too. Again this has nothing to do with the worth which have male and female before God.

1st Timothy 4:12-14 is directed at Timothy, not at everybody in the church, and Junia IS a woman as I've already shown you.
I am not talking about a person's worth, I am talking about a person's role, man or woman.

 

[wolfwint]

1st Timothy 4:12-14 is directed at Timothy, not at everybody in the church, and Junia IS a woman as I've already shown you.
I am not talking about a person's worth, I am talking about a person's role, man or woman.

Come on, you really believe that was only for Timothy? Then what is for us today? That what we want to hear? What supporting our selfmade doctrines and teachings?
With your view you can defend every teaching and doctrine. But will this pleased God? For me this is simple ignoring of Gods word.

 

[StanJ]

Come on, you really believe that was only for Timothy? Then what is for us today? That what we want to hear? What supporting our selfmade doctrines and teachings?
With your view you can defend every teaching and doctrine. But will this pleased God? For me this is simple ignoring of Gods word.

Yes, of course I do, otherwise I wouldn't have said so. Maybe you don't understand the English well enough? Try reading it in German. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+4&version=SCH2000
If you understood basic biblical hermeneutics, then you would agree with me. What exactly is it you think Paul is saying in
1 Timothy 4:12-14, and how does it relate to the issue of women pastors?
What I think pleases God is for somebody to have an overall understanding of all of His Word, not just one or two verses.

 

[garee]

I would question the idea of “rule over’ rather than “rule with’. It’s a matter of positions not persons. Just as the Father is not greater as a person than the Son the same applies to male and female.They work as one.

A woman being silent during a gathering together does not just affect the woman during those kinds of ceremonial gatherings used as shadows of the good thing to come. The men there are part of those laws. If the woman does not perform them, the whole congregation shares in the error, vice versa.

I think much has been lost because of the head covering ordinance which is used to represent the new order of government, because the time of the first century reformation had come. This is when the temporal outward form of temple worship as that seen , using shadows and types to preach the gospel in advance, was done away with. The veil which represented the coming of Christ was used express the hidden unseen glory of God who remains without form .

Changing a part of the ordinance or taking away the whole is shown with Arron’s two sons who added something to the law .They both vanished to show the importance of ceremonial laws used to point ahead as the gospel .

The head covering ceremony as shadow points ahead. It is used in a similar way of the veil to show the only glory that should be seen during a gathering together is the glory we see by faith. Take away one aspect of the ceremonial law the rest might as well be dismissed.

This is seen with the breaking of bread ordinance, the head covering /uncovering ordinance was part of the breaking of the bread . It worked to help us understand the marriage supper in heaven when we receive our new incorruptible bodies (neither male nor female Jew or Gentile) . And also a sign for the angels

While we are here on earth again the only glory that should be seen is the hidden glory of God, the purpose of the ceremonial laws.(we walk by faith the unseen) They help us see men and woman share the same outward glory as a manifestation of His. The head covering and the breaking of bread are considered one in principle representing what we will be when we do receive our new incorruptible bodies. Exchanging the bread for Jellow, or chocolate milk to represent the blood of Christ , many today would be offended.

1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Man is both an image as a representation and a glory as a manifestation, of His hidden glory. If man does not follow that ordinance to uncover the whole of Corinthians 11 new order is made to not effect. Just as if the woman does not cover her hair.

In the head covering and uncovering doctrine, the woman is not spoken as the image of man but the glory of man.

1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Here it is not representation but manifestation. The glory of man must not be manifest in spiritual exercises, we walk by faith. No glory but that of God is to be seen in the spiritual realm. Therefore when the man see the women’s head covered, he is reminded that his glory is covered also . Their public ministry is done so God alone receives the glory .

It’s not who is capable, but will men honor the glory doctrine. As the glory hidden from our eyes. We are not to cover the glory of city on the hill.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Rev 21:22

 

[freed4ever]

Tim,
I wanted you to ask God for this understanding. but If you were to go back to Genesis and see what God said to the women for her sin in her disobedience as once spoken then it is done forever. do not be fooled but what man says as we many know not what he should.
Test the spirit and see what sort it is from and by the fruit which it brings forth it will either be of God in heaven or the evil one, Be not fooled. Be at peace and he himself will answer you this to your understanding.

Peace and Grace wisdom is added unto you this very hour
Your Brother in Christ