Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): Same?

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dave_in_KWC

Senior Member
May 21, 2014
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KWC, Ontario
Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): Same?

There’s a lot of talk today in secular therapy circles about the concept of “mindfulness” and so I would like to write about what I see is the difference between this concept: mindfulness (taught often in secular therapy) and the idea of having our mind “in Christ”. If you ask, the secular (or even a Christian) therapist will possibly tell you the concept of mindfulness comes from an eastern meditative practice where you are instructed to focus on the “here-and-now “ and not allow your mind to drift into thinking about things past or future. This practical idea is not a bad thing from a Christian perspective; clearly Jesus is explaining in the New Testament book of Matthew chapters four through eight about concepts that have to do with not worrying and thinking about things that have not yet been and about not dwelling on past hurts or offenses. I think it’s fair to say that Jesus wants us to live in the present: here and now; which are concepts that are taught as part of teaching mindfulness. But the BIG issue is HOW you are able to do such things as keeping your mind on things that are good and healthy and in the here-and-now?

So what’s the problem here with the idea of mindfulness vs. having our minds in Christ?

Let’s look at the next concept: having our minds “in Christ Jesus”. The big new insert into this discussion here is that: we as Christians, have some One that empowers us to keep our minds focused here in the present on things that are “above and not below” (Colossians 3:2). In our own strength and effort we may be able to try to focus ourselves in the here and now, but all this will give us is an unhealthy confidence in our own abilities (or carnal confidence or pride, in the negative sense of the word). Whether we like to think about this are not, I will argue that that is a carnal confidence or ungodly pride. Romans 8:6 – 7 indicates that anything that I do apart from surrender to my Redeemer the Lord Jesus Christ is carnality and leads to destruction and devastation.

As a Christian, focusing myself and my own strength on the present (and not the past or the future) without relying on Jesus as my strength, as my counsel, as my whole: fully as my all in all, can be seen as carnality and is immoral. Do you understand? Just because I’m focusing on the present doesn’t mean I’m doing it “in Christ” and through His Grace/Strength. And if I’m not doing it “in Christ” then I will argue I am not living the Life that God has for me in His Kingdom: in Him. I can be going through the steps of living the Christian life in all sorts of ways without being surrendered to God, This is often how God challenges and corrects us, by helping us to realize that what we’re doing was apart from Him and His strength and help, even if it just means staying “in the present” in our minds. We often feel the “pain” of this kind of carnal living because of it’s “natural” consequences or how this living “deadens” or hearts or spirits.

Having our minds firmly set upon Jesus Christ is a discipline that goes far beyond the idea of mindfulness. In Christ, by surrendering to Jesus and learning to live and move and have our being in Him we’re focusing on the essential experience of being in the Kingdom of God. Some call this: “Living in the River” as opposed to living out on the “muddy banks”. The first is being in Christ, the second is being in the flesh. One leads to a life that is fulfilling here on earth (despite the pain and sacrifice that “living in Love” will needfully involve) by the power of the Spirit of Christ and all the joy and satisfaction that comes from that – and the other which brings upon us the consequences are living in direct opposition to God: or carnally. “...[T]he mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace...” Romans 8:6

This Spirit of Christ raised our Lord Jesus Christ from the dead and the same Holy Spirit can raise us from the deadness of carnal thinking and behaving. This is a far cry from just being “mindful” - which is all the 3-dimensioned World, apart for Jesus can offer us. Which is some help, granted - but does it lead the Seeker where they need to be? You can enter into that Spiritual dimension of Christ’s invisible Kingdom here on earth, for the FIRST time by believing in what Jesus Christ did for us all by sacrificing His life for pay the universal cost of our and Humanity’s wrong doing or breaking of God’s Love Laws. Or you can stay (as a Believer in Jesus) in the “River” by continuing to remain in surrender to our Lord and Redeemer: Jesus.

Let’s all get in the River! The Water is FINE!
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S



– and the other which brings upon us the consequences are living in direct opposition to God: or carnally. “...[T]he mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace...” Romans 8:6

"and the other, which brings upon us the consequences of living in direct opposition to God: or carnally. “

[h=1]Romans 8:6-9Amplified Bible (AMP)[/h][FONT=&quot]6 Now the mind of the flesh is death [both now and forever—because it pursues sin]; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace [the spiritual well-being that comes from walking with God—both now and forever];7 the mind of the flesh [with its sinful pursuits] is actively hostile to God. It does not submit itself to God’s law, since it cannot, 8 and those who are in the flesh [living a life that caters to sinful appetites and impulses] cannot please God.[/FONT]
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

You lost me there, sorry. There is something you tried to get across, I could hear it trying to get out. I did a counselling course at collage once and was impressed at how easily the mind can be turned and set in a different path, depending on which path it started on by facing the problems of the first path head on. Weather this has anything to do with 'Mindfulness as taught by Therapists' I haven't got a clue.

I do know that if the mental health people actually knew what was going on in the minds of those led by the Spirit of Jesus, we would all be locked up and the keys buried very deep.

The trouble is we can not look at what we have in Jesus and compare it with or to anything that is not of Jesus, it does not work. We also can not start from the other side and try to understand what the things of the Spirit are through the eyes of the flesh, or the world or the therapist. That is just not going to work either.

Jesus is life. Jesus is truth. Jesus is all. Jesus is called "The wonderful counsellor", which means (according to the Strong's concordance) that Jesus is able to 'devise an answer to the problem and lead us through to a successful conclusion'.

It does not matter where one comes from or where one is going, what one has or has not done. If we all focus on Jesus I mean really focus on Him, the Lord of life, the Son of God, the one through whom all creation is created, the one who hung on the cross and died for us all to release us from the grasp of sin and death, If we, with all our strength, and will, and ability focus on Jesus, then we are home and nothing more matters, at all, ever.
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

You lost me there, sorry. There is something you tried to get across, I could hear it trying to get out. I did a counselling course at collage once and was impressed at how easily the mind can be turned and set in a different path, depending on which path it started on by facing the problems of the first path head on. Weather this has anything to do with 'Mindfulness as taught by Therapists' I haven't got a clue.

I do know that if the mental health people actually knew what was going on in the minds of those led by the Spirit of Jesus, we would all be locked up and the keys buried very deep.

The trouble is we can not look at what we have in Jesus and compare it with or to anything that is not of Jesus, it does not work. We also can not start from the other side and try to understand what the things of the Spirit are through the eyes of the flesh, or the world or the therapist. That is just not going to work either.

Jesus is life. Jesus is truth. Jesus is all. Jesus is called "The wonderful counsellor", which means (according to the Strong's concordance) that Jesus is able to 'devise an answer to the problem and lead us through to a successful conclusion'.

It does not matter where one comes from or where one is going, what one has or has not done. If we all focus on Jesus I mean really focus on Him, the Lord of life, the Son of God, the one through whom all creation is created, the one who hung on the cross and died for us all to release us from the grasp of sin and death, If we, with all our strength, and will, and ability focus on Jesus, then we are home and nothing more matters, at all, ever.

What an awesome post!

We are to set our sights on JESUS: the overseer of our soul, and the author and finisher of our faith
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

I can't speak to having a mind in Christ, but I do know from my own experience that the mindfulness exercises I have been taught by my therapists have been very helpful to me in calming my mind at times of high stress, anxiety, or when I will get into a loop of persistent thoughts.
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

I believe that Philippians 4 also explains what we are to do in all things
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

I can't speak to having a mind in Christ, but I do know from my own experience that the mindfulness exercises I have been taught by my therapists have been very helpful to me in calming my mind at times of high stress, anxiety, or when I will get into a loop of persistent thoughts.

Thanks for your reply, Y_i_g. My comments were meant to be a Scriptural exhortation to Believers, only. If you are using Paulo C.'s quote as a valuable "belief", (and based on your CC Profile "About" section; I might guess you are still "unsure" as to your faith in Jesus Christ as your Saviour? If so, maybe we can chat more about where you are at in tournaments spiritual journey?
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

when I was growing up, I was taught that anything associated in any way with eastern stuff was evil.


but now I can see the value of mindfulness, and yes, Jesus' teaching on peace can enhance our mental state, imo
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

A belated "Thanks, Dave." I missed this last fall. I did know why Mindfulness is junk, but couldn't have explained it as well as you did. So, thank you.
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

Thanks for your reply, Y_i_g. My comments were meant to be a Scriptural exhortation to Believers, only. If you are using Paulo C.'s quote as a valuable "belief", (and based on your CC Profile "About" section; I might guess you are still "unsure" as to your faith in Jesus Christ as your Saviour? If so, maybe we can chat more about where you are at in tournaments spiritual journey?

No thank you.
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

You can pray and be comforted by the Holy Spirit without needing to do mindfulness meditative exercises.

Of course, the exercises are great for appreciating the present time but mostly I found they aren't about Jesus, but the self. More related to New Age/Mysticism than christianity.

I guess if prayer and time with God has a similar affect then is there are need for 'mindfulnes'
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

Mindfulness is one of the biggest deceptions this century.

I have tried it out a little, not really understanding much about it at the time.
Most mindfulness practitioners have studied eastern Hindu practices, that is the root
of mindfulness. I very quickly realised it was wrong.

At it's most basic said to be therapeutic, it often teaches you to say the same thing to
yourself i.e. chanting. Its focus is on you, the inner self, the minds eye. What you feel,
focus on your body, your sensations, your breathing mixed with things like allow yourself to float,
imagine a blue sky etc. It encourages you to see yourself and think
of yourself as part of a bigger universal consciousness - that's where the Hindu roots
start to show, it tells you to allow your mind to go blank.
It's a thinly veiled form of Buddhism.

By contrast the bible never tells you to allow your mind to go blank.
It never tells you to focus only on yourself.
Instead it tells you to meditate on the word of God. It's far more healthier to
pick out encouraging verses and meditate on them, what they mean to you.
Allowing your mind to go blank opens up your mind to hypnotic suggestion
and the demonic.


If someone told a person to mediate by kneeling on a mat 7 times a day pointing
in a certain direction, would you do it if it made you feel better or would you
recognise it as a thinly veiled form of Islam? Mindfulness is no different. It's
Hinduism in disguise.

Another thing is that you have no idea what you are unwittingly opening
yourself to by in effect, practicing these Hindu forms of meditation.
Sadly it's the in thing at the moment and many medical practitioners
recommend it. How about they recommend giving your life to Christ and
meditating on the bible. Of course they will never to that but they are
unwittingly promoting Hinduism.
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

I've never found mindfulness to have anything to do with being self-centered more than any other practice that involves people (everyone is a selfish turd), nor having any relation whatsoever to Hinduism. I think the type of mindfulness I am talking about is vastly different than what others are talking about (no big surprise since most of you baffle me anyhow). I'd try to explain mindfulness as it relates to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in a modern therapeutic setting, but I have the notion the explanation would just not satisfy the "if it ain't in the Bible then it is of the DEBBIL!" crowd.
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

I've never found mindfulness to have anything to do with being self-centered more than any other practice that involves people (everyone is a selfish turd), nor having any relation whatsoever to Hinduism. I think the type of mindfulness I am talking about is vastly different than what others are talking about (no big surprise since most of you baffle me anyhow). I'd try to explain mindfulness as it relates to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in a modern therapeutic setting, but I have the notion the explanation would just not satisfy the "if it ain't in the Bible then it is of the DEBBIL!" crowd.

Mindfulness (M.) as taught by many North American therapists is akin to Transcendental Meditation in that M. is a "recycling tand scrubbing" of Eastern religious practices that prepare the user to be more open to the spiritual forces behind the deceptions and fraudulent promises of Eastern religions like Zen Buddhism (where the teachings of M. originate), Hinduism, Sufism, Taoism, etc.) Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is completely separate as a therapeutic modality from M. Dialectical Behavioural Therapy (DBT), on the other hand, directly uses M. in it's methodology. You may have meant DBT?

I wrote this brief article to explain from a Christian Counsellor and Registered Therapist's (with 18 years experience in private practice as a Clinical Master of Social Work) perspective, the difference between the common practices of the therapeutic world (such as M.) and what I understand as the scriptural principles of us keeping our minds and hearts "stayed" upon Him, the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

I've never found mindfulness to have anything to do with being self-centered more than any other practice that involves people (everyone is a selfish turd), nor having any relation whatsoever to Hinduism. I think the type of mindfulness I am talking about is vastly different than what others are talking about (no big surprise since most of you baffle me anyhow). I'd try to explain mindfulness as it relates to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in a modern therapeutic setting, but I have the notion the explanation would just not satisfy the "if it ain't in the Bible then it is of the DEBBIL!" crowd.
But isn't it a contradiction

the term itself:

mindfulness really means one (in meditation? On what?) empties ones mind completely


And that is far from what a Christian (who contemplates in prayer the spiritual truths of GOD) does


meditation. This mindfulness this emptying ones thoughts is detachment

A Christian, who comes to THE FATHER, in prayer, is engaged and focused wholly....knowing to whom he/she comes to
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

Great thread Dave

Anyone who enters into these practices who does not know CHRIST and is not protected by the power of HIS NAME run the risk of opening the wrong doors to wrong spirits

And anyone who knows CHRIST and is protected by HIS NAME wouldn't be involved in this detached distanced activity
Nor would they confuse it to be another type of prayer

it isnt

For prayer before GOD, one would never empty themselves but would be fully engaged

How is it honoring to GOD to come before HIM
and empty ones mind???
 
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Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

Maybe, when 2 Thessalonians 2 does happen, possibly some will come to their senses and purposely and without ceasing call on the NAME of THE LORD
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

And maybe they will hold to Philippians 4 and wait
 
Re: Mindfulness (as taught by Therapists) and Having the “Mind in Christ" (Romans): S

Please forgive me if I appear negative

but it seems to me that unwholesome thoughts in this generation are effecting many and even those at very young ages