Wait- how does this work?!?! A spiritual "contradiction"

[Vidy]

Ok, I'm not going to get into ALL of the details, but this is the general story-

To start off, since many people tend to assume I'm older, I'm going to say that I'm 17 and she's 15. It was also a distanced relationship. Our parents supported the relationship, even though in full honesty I think her mom was kinda two-faced on the issue and helped influenced the outcome of this, but that's a different story.

Well, about 2 months ago, her mom gave us each a copy of a book. We were to read 1 chapter a day, and were to kinda use it as a guide to spark spiritual discussion, because we hadn't had too much of God in our relationship and both wanted Him to be a part of it, considering that He undoubtedly had a large part in starting it (also a different story).

Well, about a month and a week ago, before a D-Now weekend she went to, we got in a small disagreement over something. One of the last chapters talked about compatibility, and she said that she didn't think we were compatible in every way- The biggest two being a disagreement in "One Perfect Plan/spouse/path you are supposed to take" and the other being that she had a desire to travel, and I did not. I think some things in that discussion that I had said made her uncomfortable, and (without me knowing) she had shown it to her mother.

So, over her D-Now weekend, I had no contact with her. Seeing as we'd just had a disagreement, I figured the Bible would be a good place to go to find the answers I needed. We had a disagreement that partly had to do with God, so why not see what He has to say on the issue?

So, I spend the weekend studying my Bible and praying and stuff, and by the end of the weekend, I haven't talked to her in days and I'm fully prepared to tell her what I had found, and what I believed God was telling me. Ironically, it was that I believed that we COULD end up together if we wanted *insert more "One Perfect Plan/spouse/path disagreement" + actual biblical support*.

Well, she gets back from the weekend and she doesn't want to talk to me much, and is really kinda avoiding me. I get concerned and talk to her mom, who was actually mad at me for some things I had said in the conversation before (though I still had no idea, and none of it had been directed at el madre anyway). I finally get to talk to her, but for reasons I hadn't understood, I couldn't talk about ANYTHING relationship/future/argument/ect, until I had talked to the father first, who happened to be unavailable for a few days.

Finally, the big conversation comes up- She is breaking up with me. She says she still loves me, but she couldn't get her mind off of me and our relationship was becoming a distraction in her relationship with God. This I understand, and I was totally up for a break in the relationship if she needed one- But here's the kicker. She also said that she doesn't expect us to ever end up back together again. For some reason (and she still won't tell me why), she believes that we just won't be together.

So, here's the contradiction- Basically, my relationship with God has led me to believe that a relationship with her is perfectly acceptable, and I may pursue it if I wish. Her relationship with God is telling her that she shouldn't be with me, even though she wants to.

So who's right here? Which one of us is hearing what God really has to say? I'm really confused and hurt after all of this, and I don't want to lay blame to her and call her wrong, or accuse her of not having a right relationship with God. I'm just searching for answers, because it's a month after the fact and I STILL have no clue what's going on and why ='(

 

[lightbliss]

There's a possibility that she just isn't ready for the kind of relationship that you want. She's young, probably doesn't want to be in a "serious" relationship. You "know" you're going to be with her, perhaps that freaks her out.

Just give her time and space. I'll let her develop into the young woman God wants her to be. If the two of you are "for" each other, then it'll happen in God's time.

Also it's not about who's right or wrong. If she wants to travel, her can travel. She could be feeling things that she doesn't want to, that can "potentially damage" her relationship with God, and there is nothing wrong with putting God above someone else, now matter how "hurt" they feel about it.

 

[Vidy]

There's a possibility that she just isn't ready for the kind of relationship that you want. She's young, probably doesn't want to be in a "serious" relationship. You "know" you're going to be with her, perhaps that freaks her out.

Just give her time and space. I'll let her develop into the young woman God wants her to be. If the two of you are "for" each other, then it'll happen in God's time.

Also it's not about who's right or wrong. If she wants to travel, her can travel. She could be feeling things that she doesn't want to, that can "potentially damage" her relationship with God, and there is nothing wrong with putting God above someone else, now matter how "hurt" they feel about it.

I realize this. It's just that what's scaring me is her belief that we WILL NOT be together. It's confusing me, and I don't' see where she's coming from there. I realize that if our relationship is in the way for now, then she DOES need her space to keep her relationship with God healthy. However, what makes her certain that we'll never pick it back up?

Also, I never said I "knew" I would be with her, though I did make it clear that it was a possibility and that I desired it. What I was GOING to tell her, though never had a chance to, was that I KNEW that we COULD be together if we both had wanted.

And I said I know it's not about who's right/wrong- but what about what God had supposedly told me vs. what God supposedly told her? Did he tell us contradictory things? Or is one of us misunderstanding God, or even not listening to God at all?

EDIT: Also, this is kinda creepy... The girl I'm talking about in this topic. her name is Brittany, and she's homeschooled. She lives in TX instead of Pennsylvania, but still that's kinda weird XD

 

[lightbliss]

Well, if you're positive that God actually told you what you think He did, then maybe she's scared of everything possibly being definite

 

[Matthew]

And I said I know it's not about who's right/wrong- but what about what God had supposedly told me vs. what God supposedly told her? Did he tell us contradictory things? Or is one of us misunderstanding God, or even not listening to God at all?D

Well the problem lies with you not with God, as happens to everyone your own desires are probably clouding your understanding of what you each are feeling, at 15 and 17 years old neither of you have finished growing and it's a confusing time, that isn't a critiscism but just a fact and one you need to be aware of.

I would say a big danger is the tendency to over-analyze and focus too much on what is 'meant to be', having read your threads on this topic it sounds like for two people of 15 and 17 you seem to be taking things too seriously, it is great you pay respect by speaking with her parents and it's also great you each tried to keep a solid foundation for your relationship.

That said you are young and conversations about being together long term are premature, you each still have to grow in yourselves before that can even be an issue and your relationship should be a way to support eachother and help eachother grow, by focusing on the future of your relationship all you've done is add pressure and the weight of expectation to a situation that many grown adults struggle to deal with successfully.

I do understand your frustration because you deserve to know why she has ended things with you, but maybe the answer is hiding in plain sight and you need to consider that as a couple you moved too fast and her reaction to that is to push you away completely, if that is the case then over time she might find there is still a strong connection and she might open up again, but right now I'd say focus on yourself and try to accept that for now at least, things are a little out of your control.

 

[Vidy]

Well, if you're positive that God actually told you what you think He did, then maybe she's scared of everything possibly being definite

I really think it's a problem with her (and I mean this in a VERY nonoffensive, caring way). Looking at her surroundings and background, I think "fear" is a general term that pretty much hits the nail on the had, along with "insecurities."

She came from an abusive home (though she barely remembers any of it, and as far as I can tell it hasn't effected her much, but I'm sure it does and she just hides it very well). She's very insecure about herself- This is shown by the fact that, just days after breaking up with me, she was attempting to hook me up with random girls online that she had just met herself! She's pushing me to date other people, and I see this as strange tbh. I posted a different situation I had with her before (not sure if it was here or YA!), but people said it sounded like she had insecurity issues.

And fear of commitment- This one is GREATLY accentuated by her mother, and probably also by her birth family. Her mom FORCES non-commitment on her to be honest. In fact, her mom said very clearly to me that, until I am an adult and have proven that I will remain godly without the influence of my parents (who are Christians, my dad being a pastor/music minister), she does not trust me to be in a strong emotional relationship, or a committed relationship of any sort, with her daughter. I think this is crazy, seeing as I've never felt "forced" to be a Christian and I've been very careful never to associate my own spiritual life with my father's.

Anyway, if that's what it is, then what do I do? If it IS problem with her, I have a feeling it would be VERY stupid to just say that to her, no matter how nicely I try to put it.

I'm love her, and I will do everything in my power (and within God's favor) to be with her. I just don't know what all I SHOULD do... hmmmm....

 

[Vidy]

Well the problem lies with you not with God, as happens to everyone your own desires are probably clouding your understanding of what you each are feeling, at 15 and 17 years old neither of you have finished growing and it's a confusing time, that isn't a critiscism but just a fact and one you need to be aware of.

I would say a big danger is the tendency to over-analyze and focus too much on what is 'meant to be', having read your threads on this topic it sounds like for two people of 15 and 17 you seem to be taking things too seriously, it is great you pay respect by speaking with her parents and it's also great you each tried to keep a solid foundation for your relationship.

That said you are young and conversations about being together long term are premature, you each still have to grow in yourselves before that can even be an issue and your relationship should be a way to support eachother and help eachother grow, by focusing on the future of your relationship all you've done is add pressure and the weight of expectation to a situation that many grown adults struggle to deal with successfully.

I do understand your frustration because you deserve to know why she has ended things with you, but maybe the answer is hiding in plain sight and you need to consider that as a couple you moved too fast and her reaction to that is to push you away completely, if that is the case then over time she might find there is still a strong connection and she might open up again, but right now I'd say focus on yourself and try to accept that for now at least, things are a little out of your control.

Ok, I see where you're coming from. The "moving too fast" thing may be part of it, because I could tell towards the end that that's what she was feeling, and I was agreeing about slowing down. But pushing me away COMPLETELY? I was ready to slow down, I even suggested we pull back a bit. This came out of nowhere...

As far as "growing in yourself." I've always looked at that as a bunch of crap tbh. I, unlike many teens, KNOW myself. I know what I am and am not likely to do, even if I don't know why. I know "who I am as a person." It doesn't always take adulthood or years and years of self-meditation to do that. I know what I want (while I have nothing very specific really planned out), and I know how to get it. Focusing on myself is completely unnecessary, because that just leads to conceit and loneliness.

 

[Matthew]

Ok, I see where you're coming from. The "moving too fast" thing may be part of it, because I could tell towards the end that that's what she was feeling, and I was agreeing about slowing down. But pushing me away COMPLETELY? I was ready to slow down, I even suggested we pull back a bit. This came out of nowhere...

I agree that pushing you away completely is maybe more extreme than she needed to be, but you can probably understand from your own experiences that when you feel emotionally suffocated the defense instinct kicks in and most people do go further than they need too, and when they calm down they realise they were perhaps a bit too extreme in their reaction.

When this happens someone comes off worse, in this instance you, but if you give her space and try to see it through it oftens results in a more balanced and rewarding relationship, but it does require you to ride out the rough times, and there's no way to avoid that part of it.

As far as "growing in yourself." I've always looked at that as a bunch of crap tbh. I, unlike many teens, KNOW myself. I know what I am and am not likely to do, even if I don't know why. I know "who I am as a person." It doesn't always take adulthood or years and years of self-meditation to do that. I know what I want (while I have nothing very specific really planned out), and I know how to get it. Focusing on myself is completely unnecessary, because that just leads to conceit and loneliness.

I didn't mean focus on yourself in terms of going on a journey of emotional discovery etc... because oftentimes that is rubbish.........what I meant is at 15 and 17 a person is not fully grown in any way regardless of how well they 'know' themself.

My point here is that at 17 there are still some important life lessons coming your way and if you are busy focusing your attention on why things aren't how you want them to be and what can you do to make them so etc...your attention is off 'what can I learn from this?' and is swiftly onto' how can I get what I want?' which right now is your girlfriend back.

I'm not saying that is what's happening, but if in the wake of this break-up you focus too much on why she broke up with you might miss the lessons that could help you with future relationships, whether they are with her or someone else.

 

[Vidy]

I DO want to learn from this... but doing so requires knowing everything that happened, and why, and I'm still unclear on some of this stuff. I also have a feeling that knowing and learning from this COULD get her back with me, so it's a plus-plus there lol.

As far as life lessons I still have to learn- I'm aware of this. I really think this break-up will hurt me getting these "lessons" more than staying together would have been, but that's looking at it from my side of view. I sorta understand some of her intentions in the break-up, and I'm ok with her making those choices even though it hurts me. But as far as things I need to focus on in my life right now- I am a VERY fortunate person. I have things laid out for me pretty much. I am naturally intelligent (I am NOT trying to brag, sorry if it comes across that way). With no effort I have managed to get strait As throughout high school, a 33 on my ACT, and a full ride + $5,000 a year to the college I want to go to. I will literally be paid to go to college, and I am very talented in the field I am looking at joining. My parents were able to buy me both a car AND a laptop before I go, and for all I know they could be planning something else to get me. I realize I'm going to have to start working a little harder, but I highly doubt it will ever be something that requires all of my focus.

Now, I'm curious- You say I'll have to "ride out the tough time." What exactly does this include? Should I not talk to her about us at all during this time? She's my best friend regardless of whether she's my gf or not..... I want to still confide everything in her, and having to avoid this is just another level of horrible in this entire situation =S

 

[Matthew]

Now, I'm curious- You say I'll have to "ride out the tough time." What exactly does this include? Should I not talk to her about us at all during this time? She's my best friend regardless of whether she's my gf or not..... I want to still confide everything in her, and having to avoid this is just another level of horrible in this entire situation =S

What I mean is you have to bear the uncertainty, the feeling of being dropped off in no man's land is a hard one to bear and I've known it many times, the fact is you want her back and you say she has already made an attempt to play matchmaker for you with other girls, that's got to hurt you and so if you do intend to keep hoping for a relationship with her again but also want to keep a friendship these are things you're going to have to tolerate.

Remaining a friend to a former girlfriend is a rarely seen situation because the guy is usually hurt by seeing the girl move on, and you need to be aware that that could happen and even if it doesn't you may have to stand by while she goes through these situations, because sometimes it takes new relationship(s) failing to make a person see the value in those they had in the past.

I wouldn't recommend talking to her about your relationship, mainly because she has said you no longer have a relationship so trying to address it again might just do harm to your friendship, but that's a call you have to make though as you have the best chance of knowing how she will react to that.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

I'm gonna say the two of you arent gonna work unless her mother gets out of the way, both of you are young and she is only 15, no offense but what really can you expect from a 15 year old serious relationship wise.

 

[Vidy]

^^Yeah, that's what I'm sayin.... But the mother has a VERY... dominant personality. In fact, she had attacked me without warning on an IM once for my "attitude," and when I asked her to tell me WHAT I did for her to attack me that way, she wouldn't provide any examples. I tell my friends she's a bit

ter old lady =P =P


But yeah, I definitely don't expect a relationship back with her soon, all things considered....

Oh yeah, another thing on the "What God told us" thing. Just a week before the break-up, she had told me that she was sure she was supposed to date me at least through my first year of college, to help keep me grounded when I'm out on my own. I wonder what happened to that?

So I guess my question is this- If we are both asking God for an answer, and get different answers, then it's obvious that either one or both of us is not getting an answer from God. If it's only one of us, how do we determine which one is actually receiving insight from God? And if it's both of us, then what IS God trying to tell us here? Or is he just remaining silent on the matter??? *sigh* Me and my programmer mind, trying to figure out and evaluate every possible scenario XD

 

[Matthew]

Oh yeah, another thing on the "What God told us" thing. Just a week before the break-up, she had told me that she was sure she was supposed to date me at least through my first year of college, to help keep me grounded when I'm out on my own. I wonder what happened to that?

It sounds like she is confused about what she really wants, and having her mother in between probably doesn't help, to be honest if she is that confused and changeable in what she feels is right then it's probably best she's alone for a while to figure things out.

So I guess my question is this- If we are both asking God for an answer, and get different answers, then it's obvious that either one or both of us is not getting an answer from God. If it's only one of us, how do we determine which one is actually receiving insight from God? And if it's both of us, then what IS God trying to tell us here? Or is he just remaining silent on the matter??? *sigh* Me and my programmer mind, trying to figure out and evaluate every possible scenario XD

I don't think you can determine that, all you can do is try to be honest with yourself about what you're feeling and not let your own desires cloud your judgement, although that's very hard it's obviously been happening a bit.
Consider that maybe neither of you are correct and your both missing the point and hearing what you want to hear, one of you doesn't have to be right.

To be completely honest you make it sound as if your both confused about what's going on, and when that happens time apart is usually a good thing.

 

[Vidy]

It sounds like she is confused about what she really wants, and having her mother in between probably doesn't help, to be honest if she is that confused and changeable in what she feels is right then it's probably best she's alone for a while to figure things out.



I don't think you can determine that, all you can do is try to be honest with yourself about what you're feeling and not let your own desires cloud your judgement, although that's very hard it's obviously been happening a bit.
Consider that maybe neither of you are correct and your both missing the point and hearing what you want to hear, one of you doesn't have to be right.

To be completely honest you make it sound as if your both confused about what's going on, and when that happens time apart is usually a good thing.

I think we ARE both confused ~_o But this time apart... She says it's likely permanent, and I don't see where that's coming from. When you say to leave her alone to figure it out, is asking her why she believes that we won't ever be together again crossing the line, and likely to push her past the "point of no return?"

Also, as far as both missing the point, I pointed out that it WAS an option, I haven't ruled it out ^_^ But how do we hear what GOD wants us to hear? How will He tell it to us? Using emotional/thought basis is obviously unreliable, so hearing voices or having constant thoughts or feeling drawn to something is something I won't trust as a definite voice from God.

As far as my judgment goes, until the last few days, I saw nothing TO judge. I was with her, and I was happy. She was happy, but for some reason uncertain, to a point that it became harmful to the relationship I think. She had a choice, I think she believed it was between "Staying with me and not growing in God, or leaving me totally for God," because she doesn't think she can handle both at the same time right now. I TOTALLY support her in this if she feels that's what she needs to do.

Like I've said a few times, I'm just stuck on why it's not considered temporary....

 

[Matthew]

I think when all is said and done the fact remains that she is only 15 years old, at that age things are rarely ever permanent or temporary, thoughts and feelings can be like a blade of grass.......they bend with the wind.

There is only so much advice anyone can give as only she can give you answers and she may not even know what she is feeling and just wants to be alone while she does it, all you can do is continue being her friend and seek guidance through your faith, and again that is ultimately something that only you can do.

I know it is very little help but there are always more question than answers, especially when romance is involved.

For now I welcome you into the club of baffled men who cannot fathom the female mind.

 

[Vidy]

Thanks =) I'll definitely be waiting it out, and I'll try to get the answers that I can out of her without worsening the situation. I'll try to move VERY carefully now, and pray often that things will end up working out between us =P

I'm trying to keep a best friend contact, but shortly after the break-up, my sister all of a sudden started calling her nonstop, she refuses to talk to me on the phone at all, and she got grounded for a month for no real reason. Ah well, I'm trying =/

 

[MahogonySnail]

15 year olds should be still playing tea parties and dolls.

 

[Vidy]

15 year olds should be still playing tea parties and dolls.

Please tell me you're not serious XD Most people stop that before they turn 10 tbh.

I think part of my problem may be that I've almost NEVER looked at age for a qualifier of ANYTHING. I never say, "Oh, I'm not 17, I can't play an M rated video game," because I know WHY it's rated M, and I know those things don't effect me. I can easily ignore language without being influenced at all, and I am a very nonviolent person, and these games rarely have sex (my "weak" spot) in them, so they're safe. I never say "Oh, I'm almost 18, I can almost smoke now!@#!" because most things that have an age REQUIREMENT I don't desire to do anyway.

But in the case of relationships and authority issues, it becomes a problem. With authority, I never say "You're older so you must know better." I think "You know what you know, and if it WORKS then I will listen, regardless of your age." People who rely on pointing out age to prove their point are the sorriest leaders IMO.

In the case of relationships, it makes me want to jump ahead too fast in areas that THEY might not be ready for, but they don't let me know they're not ready for it. I have spent a lot of my effort on trying to become the BEST person I can possibly be for my future wife (and more recently, making myself the best GODLY person I can be for my future wife). While most people are struggling with grades (which I have no problem with) and a billion extracurricular activities, I'm working on self-betterment. I feel kinda like I'm "prematurely" ready for a deep, serious relationship. I hate it when people point out age like it's impossible, because that is a SOCIETY problem. Back in Bible times, people married young- They got jobs young- They LASTED.

I want that, because I see it in the Bible and I KNOW it's possible. But when society is hammering "No u r wai 2 yung2#!" into your head, you sometimes start to believe it. Teenagers are no longer considered "young adults" anymore, and we are >expected< to be immature. When we do show signs of maturity, we are bashed for "trying to be an adult too fast." I think it's a bunch of crap -.-

</overlylongunnecessaryrant>


But yeah, she might not be ready yet... But I'm still not sure what to do. I'm talking to God about it, and I THINK He's saying this isn't the end of it, but I'm not sure. In the meantime, I don't know what all I should tell her about what I'm thinking and feeling, and how much I should ask her about her thoughts and feelings. It's very sensitive, and one part of me just wants to ball up and cry, and the other part wants to charge in and fix it, and I have a feeling that neither of those are good *sigh*

 

[MahogonySnail]

I was still playing with lego and toy cars up to age 22. That's what wrong with the world these days, people grow up too fast.

 

[Vidy]

I was still playing with lego and toy cars up to age 22. That's what wrong with the world these days, people grow up too fast.

No... What's wrong with the world these days is we grow up too slow ~_o

Until recently, you had FULL adult responsibilities as a teenager. You were expected to be married, have a job, and be a strong person in faith. Now, as you have so well proven, we aren't expected to have any sort of maturity until our mid-20s. Our bodies CRAVE emotional and physical maturity during our mid-teens, but society has changed in such a way that meeting these needs is nearly impossible.