Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[eternally-gratefull]

PROOF!!!

YOU DON'T WANT PROOF!!!

How much proof would you like posted?
TRY THE ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT...

Then why do you not READ THE WHOLE NT?

Come of it Fran, you can not be that far off you can not see the very argument you use against others can be used against you?? It is based on perspective.

You think I do not study the NT, and it proves me wrong..

I believe the same about you. (the only difference is you also use outside sources, while I do not)

What will it accomplish for either of us if we keep usinng these same nonsensical, arguments against each other? We will look like two kids blame shifting, and NOTHING will come from it.

 

[FranC]

WHat is arrogant is making the same argument over and over which is not true. and thinking it is true.

No one here is saying, or has ever said people should not follow Christ. (At least no one i have ever heard)

If one FALLS AWAY

HOW
could the STILL be FOLLOWING CHRIST????

 

[FranC]

WHo are those who follow Jesus?

Those born again, or those who THINK THEY ARE?

Ooops.
Another insult.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If one FALLS AWAY

HOW
could the STILL be FOLLOWING CHRIST????

Who said they ever were following Christ (and not just going through the motions?)

The bible says a man or woman born of God can not sin.. If one can not fall into sin, how can they fall away?

The bible also says there are many impostors. who look like christians, but are not..

so who can fall away? those who ARE born of God. or those who THINK they are born of God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ooops.
Another insult.

How is that an insult? I did not name names, I asked a question..

do you have an answer to my question?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My post sounds like an attack to you?

You aren't going to try and explain it away?
BECAUSE IT CANNOT.

We CAN fall away.

1. I already addressed those bible scriptures yesterday, I refuse to do it again.
2. If you want to think you can fall away, Be my guest. Me, i will continue to trust in Jesus and keep pushing to the prise of the high calling..

 

[PeterJens]

When we walk in the Spirit and in love

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:35-39


Paul is declaring victory through the love of Christ at work in His heart.
This is not defeated hypocritical faith, which believes we are lost in sin,
but God still forgives us.

When we walk in Jesus ways nothing can separate us from Gods blessing.

Amen.

 

[FranC]

Then why do you not READ THE WHOLE NT?

Come of it Fran, you can not be that far off you can not see the very argument you use against others can be used against you?? It is based on perspective.

You think I do not study the NT, and it proves me wrong..

I believe the same about you. (the only difference is you also use outside sources, while I do not)

What will it accomplish for either of us if we keep usinng these same nonsensical, arguments against each other? We will look like two kids blame shifting, and NOTHING will come from it.

Here's why ET:

I was here practically by myself through all these pages.

Do you think it's correct for only YOUR side to get to speak?
There are people reading along who may be just saved, or who may be seeking the truth.

I'm speaking to them. I have some help now. That's nice.

Seems to me that my side does not throw insults around.
Your side does. This is readily understood by anyone reading along.

When this thread is finished, I'll stop.
Until then, YOU will not be the only one to speak,
and speak incorrect doctrine.

I've pointed out insults to you.
We're supposed to be brothers in Christ and we're supposed to be having a civil conversation.
It should NOT BE PERSONAL.

 

[FranC]

1. I already addressed those bible scriptures yesterday, I refuse to do it again.
2. If you want to think you can fall away, Be my guest. Me, i will continue to trust in Jesus and keep pushing to the prise of the high calling..

I'm happy you say this.

How about not telling new Christians they cannot fall away,
when I've shown verse after verse proving that one can.

The best you've done is go to the Greek, which no one here really knows.
Twist verses around to make them mean what YOU want them to mean.
I've sat here and read that IF does not mean IF.

Kind of reminds me of Pres. Clinton. If you know what I mean.

It's silly.

 

[willybob]

Heart Purity is a must not an option

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAYjN5vjuzY

 

[wsblind]

If only Peter and others understood how truly great a passage that was..

How much do you love? It's the wrong question. We are not virtuous creatures.

How much does God love us? That is the real question. He is virtuous. And He has a unconditional love for His Children, based upon who and what HE is, not based upon who and what we are.

So if we base His love for us off of the way we love.......it will be conditional love.

And God has unconditional love for His children.

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[PeterJens]

A strange paradox. If sin is not a problem to ones own soul because you are forgiven,
lying and slandering others is no restraint, if the goal is to show how hypocritical the
opposition is.

The real blindness is the argument is already lost. We stand on Christs example and
righteousness.

And these guys are hurt people, who will lash out in every and any means, because
what we are writing does hurt them. If they were to accept our words, then they
know change would have to follow. This is what will judge them on the last day.

All you need to say is a simple “Yes” or “No.” Otherwise you will be condemned.
James 5:12

ll you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
Matt 5:37

What we say needs to be relied upon. Nothing we say should be just for effect or
be untrue.

 

[PeterJens]

So if we base His love for us off of the way we love.......it will be conditional love.
And God has unconditional love for His children.

If you are not written in the Lambs book of life you will be sent to the lake of fire.

That is a conditional aspect of Gods love towards man.

Gods love exists despite mans sin, and they can find salvation in His son.
The door is open, but again to approach this door a repentant confessing heart
is required.

So Gods love is available to all, but to gain access to the Father is only through
the Son, and with a contrite heart.

So it is seriously miss-leading to say Gods love is not conditional. It is amazingly
conditional or we are universalists.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here's why ET:

I was here practically by myself through all these pages.

Do you think it's correct for only YOUR side to get to speak?

Thats our first problem It should not be a my side against your side, We should be discussing the word of God with open hearts. If we make it a my side vs your side. Then all we will ever doe is have heated discussions with no respolution even possible.

and ps. I have many times been here by my self talking about the grace of God and eternal security, and if I would ever use that strawman argument, I would pray someone would confront me with it, Because it would never help my case.

There are people reading along who may be just saved, or who may be seeking the truth.

I agree, and when they see two people using the argument you need to read the bible.. and the other say no you do. What are those people to think?? We MUST think of them.. which is why I keep bringing up the strawman discussion because it HURTS our case more than it does HELP it.

I'm speaking to them. I have some help now. That's nice.

You have some help? is that what you call it?? I hope you are not refering to Peter and Willy.. They are not helping you at all..

Seems to me that my side does not throw insults around.

We must not be reading the same comments, I have been insulted and attacked numerous times today. Are you sure your not selectively reading? I am not attacking you by saying that, Just asking for you to search your heart and see if this is true.

Your side does. This is readily understood by anyone reading along.

Your side does it also. and again, Anyone reading it can see this (here we go again)

When this thread is finished, I'll stop.
Until then, YOU will not be the only one to speak,
and speak incorrect doctrine.

And I will not allow you to speak incorrect doctrine also (again, here we go.. I mean seriously?? You want to keep that line of reasoning up?

I've pointed out insults to you.
We're supposed to be brothers in Christ and we're supposed to be having a civil conversation.

Tell Peter jens and willy that!

It should NOT BE PERSONAL.

I agree 100 %, When we say somethign, and someone makes a statement that says they disagree and they see it this way, it should ne be seen as an attack. causing us to go all ballistic on other people. and then blame shift when it is pointed out that that is what we are doing (cough Peter)

 

[blue_ladybug]

People CAN fall away from God, be it for a few weeks, months or even years. They can fall away AND STILL be saved. Now, before you attack me, I mean "fall away" in the sense that we may go entirely off our path with God. Been there, done that. I was, and AM, still saved. Just because someone falls off their path doesn't necessarily mean that they have stopped believing in God. I never stopped believing in Him, but was doing my own thing, instead of what GOD wanted me to do. It's a good thing that God is patient, and always waits for us on the path, to return to Him.

Now if someone doesn't believe in God, then obviously they won't be saved. They can't lose salvation because they never had it in the first place.

To those of you who believe that born-again, believing Christians don't or can't sin, that just is not true. One trip to the Family forum to read the adultery, divorce, porn or masturbation threads will prove it.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Oh grow up, people!! Seriously..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm happy you say this.

How about not telling new Christians they cannot fall away,
when I've shown verse after verse proving that one can.

No I willnot tell them that, I will tell then what John told me to tell them, They they can KNOW THEY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. and because of this, they can continue to believe in his name.

To not falter when satan gets in their head when they fail. To keep on pushing in spite of all the oposition from their flesh and satanic opression and all the accusations he makes against them.

if I were to tell them they could fall away,

1. It would instill fear (should)
2. I would have to tell them the hard work they will have to do to make sure they do not fall away (meaning I would be teaching them works, and not grace)
3. I would have to tell them the grace they they just placed their faith in, is not really grace at all.

The best you've done is go to the Greek, which no one here really knows.

You do not have to know. Jus tlook up the word like any english word. and see what is said.

Twist verses around to make them mean what YOU want them to mean.

Here we go again You see, it is you who are doing that (see what I mean, back and forth,, )

I've sat here and read that IF does not mean IF.

If has many meanings even in the english. perhaps we could do a study of that.

Kind of reminds me of Pres. Clinton. If you know what I mean.

Ug, please no politics.. lol. But yes I do know what you mean.

It's silly.

it is, it is also dangerous because this is someones eternity we are talkingn about.

 

[wsblind]

If you are not written in the Lambs book of life you will be sent to the lake of fire.

That is a conditional aspect of Gods love towards man.

Gods love exists despite mans sin, and they can find salvation in His son.
The door is open, but again to approach this door a repentant confessing heart
is required.

So Gods love is available to all, but to gain access to the Father is only through
the Son, and with a contrite heart.

So it is seriously miss-leading to say Gods love is not conditional. It is amazingly
conditional or we are universalists.

Gods love doesn't save us. His Justice saves us. His love sent Jesus Christ to the Cross for all mankind and His Justice/righteousness was satisfied. We adjust to His justice by believing in Christ.

His love put every person ever born in His book of life. If that person doesn't ever put their faith in Christ they are blotted out. But the believer has the promise they will NEVER be blotted out.

New American Standard Bible
Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

New American Standard Bible
'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

 

[PeterJens]

Gods love doesn't save us. His Justice saves us. His love sent Jesus Christ to the Cross for all mankind and His Justice/righteousness was satisfied. We adjust to His justice by believing in Christ.

His love put every person ever born in His book of life. If that person doesn't ever put their faith in Christ they are blotted out. But the believer has the promise they will NEVER be blotted out.

New American Standard Bible
Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

New American Standard Bible
'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Gods justice does not save us, it is His forgiveness through the cross, washing us clean and
giving us new life and giving us a heart that loves from within.

Now the real area of discussion is can we taste of heaven and not be bound in forever?
I would say yes, because if you are one of the elect you will walk deeper.
If not you will fall away. The whole point is to walk in the ways of love.

Sin is the opposition of walking in love. This is the great divide of spiritual realities.
Justice applies to blatant sin.
So much of life is not about justice but love between people.

In the view of all sin is just forgiven past, present and future, makes spiritual
reality sterile and empty. It is like having been cleansed by disinfectant, and
then left alone. Things may continue to spread, get worse or better, it does
not matter.

 

[PeterJens]

Gods love doesn't save us.

Jesus is love, Gods expression of his forgiveness to mankind.
So truly Gods love expressed in Christ does save us, for God is love.