Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
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Here is an article that looks at 2 Tim. 2:11-13. I like to use this website from time to time as it tackles some "seemingly" conflicting obscure scriptures. It has a place at the bottom of the article where people can ask questions. I have often learned a lot from these questions as many of us have the same ones.
This article is NOT for those that have made up their minds that Jesus leaves us for whatever reason we can come up with in our own natural human thinking - it is for those that are open to listen to the Holy Spirit within them reveal the beauty of their Lord. He is faithful to us.
What If I Deny Jesus? (2 Timothy 2:11–13)
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.” (2 Tim. 2:11–13)
This is a trustworthy saying that comes in two parts and both parts are trustworthy for the simple reason that Jesus is trustworthy, even when you’re not.
Destined to reign in life
The first part of the trustworthy saying begins like this: “If we died with him.” The Christian life begins at death. This is what makes the gospel unique. Every manmade religion preaches self-denial and dying to self, but the gospel simply declares, “You died.”
But more than that, we died, so that Christ might live through us. It’s an if-then statement. If A, then B. “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me” (Gal. 2:20).
“But wait,” says Paul. “There’s more. This trustworthy saying comes with bonus features. We don’t merely live, we also endure and reign.” This new life we have in Christ is a new kind of life characterized by supernatural endurance and reigning in all things.
If Paul had said, “Work hard and endure and maybe you will get to reign,” that would be nothing special or trustworthy. That’s how the world works. But it’s not how the kingdom works.
Verse 12 follows right after verse 11. Paul is describing the life we have in union with the One who already overcame, already endured, and who now reigns. “This life we have in Christ is an enduring and reigning life,” says Paul. “It’s like nothing on earth.”
Do you see? In the first part of the trustworthy saying, Paul is giving us a three-part punchline. “You know you died with Christ, right?” Yes, Paul, I know. “Well do you also know that you will live with Christ?” Sure, Paul, in heaven. “No, not just in heaven, but here and now. You will endure here. You will reign in life here. This is a trustworthy saying that deserves your full acceptance.” Oh, I didn’t know that Paul. That’s really good news!
Many Christians are looking forward to a future life with Christ but they are not ruling and reigning with him here and now. They don’t know they can. They’ve been told life is one big test and maybe, if they are careful, they’ll get a crown at the end. But the abundant life Christ promised is experienced by those who know and trust him now.
What if I disown Jesus?
This brings us to the second part of the passage: “If we disown him, he will also disown us.” The King James says, “If we deny him, he will deny us” (v.12) which is a better translation since it’s the same word Jesus uses in Matthew 10:33.
An insecure believer worries, What if I deny Jesus in a moment of weakness? But Paul is not talking about this. He is not talking about Christians at all, but those who reject Christ and will one day reap the consequences of their choice. There’s no grace for the faithless because the faithless will not receive it. If you don’t believe God is good to you, you will have difficulty experiencing his goodness.
Do you see? There are those who confess Christ and those who deny him. If you have denied him, you may yet confess him, but if you have confessed him, you cannot deny him – at least not to the point where he would deny you.
If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself. (2 Tim 2:13)
This verse has been used to sow fear into the hearts of the saints. “If you are not constant in your faith every single day, if you disown Jesus just one time, God will punish you!” It’s as if the preceding verses weren’t even there. It’s as if your unfaithfulness (or sin) was greater than his faithfulness (or grace). Hear that slap? That’s the Apostle Paul doing a face-palm!
To recap, Paul says if we die with Christ, we will live, endure, and reign with him. Each follows the other and this is a trustworthy saying.
Will Jesus deny me?
So why does Paul start talking about disowning and denying in the second part of the passage? He does it to reinforce his point which is that Christ is trustworthy. Here’s the punchline: since Christ cannot disown himself, Christ cannot disown you! Not ever. You are one with the Lord. His future is your future and his future is very good!
Keep reminding them of these things… (2 Tim 2:14)
Dead religion says you have to perform and endure to be saved, but the gospel of grace says we stand on Christ alone. He is our rock, and our sure foundation. We stand on his promises, not ours.
Do you see? The unbeliever falls on account of his faithlessness, but we stand on account of Christ’s faithfulness. Even if you have a bad day, or a moment of faithlessness, he remains utterly faithful, for he cannot disown himself. This is a trustworthy saying!
We who have acknowledged Christ before others cannot unacknowledge him. We who have died with Christ cannot un-die. We who have been born again cannot be unborn. If you were to deny him, as Peter did three times, Jesus won’t disown you, for he cannot disown himself.
Here is the link if anyone wants to read the questions at the bottom.
https://escapetoreality.org/2014/07/23/what-if-i-deny-jesus-2-timothy-2v12/
This article is NOT for those that have made up their minds that Jesus leaves us for whatever reason we can come up with in our own natural human thinking - it is for those that are open to listen to the Holy Spirit within them reveal the beauty of their Lord. He is faithful to us.
What If I Deny Jesus? (2 Timothy 2:11–13)
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.” (2 Tim. 2:11–13)
This is a trustworthy saying that comes in two parts and both parts are trustworthy for the simple reason that Jesus is trustworthy, even when you’re not.
Destined to reign in life
The first part of the trustworthy saying begins like this: “If we died with him.” The Christian life begins at death. This is what makes the gospel unique. Every manmade religion preaches self-denial and dying to self, but the gospel simply declares, “You died.”
But more than that, we died, so that Christ might live through us. It’s an if-then statement. If A, then B. “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me” (Gal. 2:20).
“But wait,” says Paul. “There’s more. This trustworthy saying comes with bonus features. We don’t merely live, we also endure and reign.” This new life we have in Christ is a new kind of life characterized by supernatural endurance and reigning in all things.
If Paul had said, “Work hard and endure and maybe you will get to reign,” that would be nothing special or trustworthy. That’s how the world works. But it’s not how the kingdom works.
Verse 12 follows right after verse 11. Paul is describing the life we have in union with the One who already overcame, already endured, and who now reigns. “This life we have in Christ is an enduring and reigning life,” says Paul. “It’s like nothing on earth.”
Do you see? In the first part of the trustworthy saying, Paul is giving us a three-part punchline. “You know you died with Christ, right?” Yes, Paul, I know. “Well do you also know that you will live with Christ?” Sure, Paul, in heaven. “No, not just in heaven, but here and now. You will endure here. You will reign in life here. This is a trustworthy saying that deserves your full acceptance.” Oh, I didn’t know that Paul. That’s really good news!
Many Christians are looking forward to a future life with Christ but they are not ruling and reigning with him here and now. They don’t know they can. They’ve been told life is one big test and maybe, if they are careful, they’ll get a crown at the end. But the abundant life Christ promised is experienced by those who know and trust him now.
What if I disown Jesus?
This brings us to the second part of the passage: “If we disown him, he will also disown us.” The King James says, “If we deny him, he will deny us” (v.12) which is a better translation since it’s the same word Jesus uses in Matthew 10:33.
An insecure believer worries, What if I deny Jesus in a moment of weakness? But Paul is not talking about this. He is not talking about Christians at all, but those who reject Christ and will one day reap the consequences of their choice. There’s no grace for the faithless because the faithless will not receive it. If you don’t believe God is good to you, you will have difficulty experiencing his goodness.
Do you see? There are those who confess Christ and those who deny him. If you have denied him, you may yet confess him, but if you have confessed him, you cannot deny him – at least not to the point where he would deny you.
If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself. (2 Tim 2:13)
This verse has been used to sow fear into the hearts of the saints. “If you are not constant in your faith every single day, if you disown Jesus just one time, God will punish you!” It’s as if the preceding verses weren’t even there. It’s as if your unfaithfulness (or sin) was greater than his faithfulness (or grace). Hear that slap? That’s the Apostle Paul doing a face-palm!
To recap, Paul says if we die with Christ, we will live, endure, and reign with him. Each follows the other and this is a trustworthy saying.
Will Jesus deny me?
So why does Paul start talking about disowning and denying in the second part of the passage? He does it to reinforce his point which is that Christ is trustworthy. Here’s the punchline: since Christ cannot disown himself, Christ cannot disown you! Not ever. You are one with the Lord. His future is your future and his future is very good!
Keep reminding them of these things… (2 Tim 2:14)
Dead religion says you have to perform and endure to be saved, but the gospel of grace says we stand on Christ alone. He is our rock, and our sure foundation. We stand on his promises, not ours.
Do you see? The unbeliever falls on account of his faithlessness, but we stand on account of Christ’s faithfulness. Even if you have a bad day, or a moment of faithlessness, he remains utterly faithful, for he cannot disown himself. This is a trustworthy saying!
We who have acknowledged Christ before others cannot unacknowledge him. We who have died with Christ cannot un-die. We who have been born again cannot be unborn. If you were to deny him, as Peter did three times, Jesus won’t disown you, for he cannot disown himself.
Here is the link if anyone wants to read the questions at the bottom.
https://escapetoreality.org/2014/07/23/what-if-i-deny-jesus-2-timothy-2v12/
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
wow.. Not churched are you?
rom 11 speaks of the gift of land God gave Isreal. It has absolutely nothing to do with gentiles. It is a fact. Any gift God gives, is a gift that is given forever. God does nto repent of his gifts..
Eph 2: 8-9 speaks of salvation. Not of just past sins. No past is in evidence, nor is it worded.
Salvation is eternal. or it is not savlvation at all.
John 10. says no future event can take us from God. that means NO FUTURE EVENT. WHy do you want to make God out to be a liar?
When you say sins what do you mean by sins?
To me repent and believe the gospel is a calling to faith.
Repent is to change ones mind concerning Jesus and then place your faith in him.
Jesus said he had to go away in order for the Holy Spirit to come to convict the world of its sin.
John 16:8-9
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
The primary sin is that of unbelief.
Once a person responds to the Spirit’s conviction and turns to faith in Christ, the other sins he practiced will be taken care of. It is the sin of unbelief—a refusal to trust in Jesus—that is primary.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Rom 11 says that just as the jews were cut off of being gods reresentatives. the gentiles could be cut off also. and it given back to jews..
Salvation is not in context in romans 11. Isreal is in context.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
His exegesis is horrendous, and not even close to be correct.
How come you can't understand this?
oh wait, I think you just answered your own question.
What does baptism do?
It removes all your sins up to that point.
After that you coness them to God since we'll be sinning our Whole life, although we do not want to and do our best not to.
So there is SIN: Orignal Sin, Sin Nature, The Flesh, call it what you will.
Then there are sins: Sins and sinning is what we do every day. Lying, stealing, treating someone badly, murder, etc.
maybe we could say it's breaking Jesus's two commandments, which include every other commandment.
Yes. It is a CALLING TO FAITH, as you understand it also.
It's not grieving the Holy Spirit by not believing and turning from God.
Repent is to turn away from satan and TO JESUS. So you could understand your way, no problem.
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
Now you say the primary sin is that of unbelief.
I'd say that Mathew 12:31-32 agrees with you.
Unbelief is the unpardonable sin. I guess that would make it the primary sin.
Fran
Now we see Baptismal regeneration....what's next........next we won't even need Jesus....he cannot keep his promises anyway according to some.
W
wsblind
Guest
Where in the bible does it say that getting baptized removes all our sins up to that point? 
Something about that doesn't compute in my brain.. I always thought that getting saved and repenting, removes our sin from us. 
After all, repenting is confessing your sins, and receiving forgiveness.
If I'm wrong, tell me because I'm stupid on alot of things..lol
Something about that doesn't compute in my brain.. I always thought that getting saved and repenting, removes our sin from us. After all, repenting is confessing your sins, and receiving forgiveness.If I'm wrong, tell me because I'm stupid on alot of things..lol
Where in the bible does it say that getting baptized removes all our sins up to that point?
Exactly....Immersion is a picture and the public profession of faith...it states you have died with Christ, are buried with Christ and resurrected with Christ as a new creation....the first act of obedience after faith and salvation...nothing more, nothing less....
W
wsblind
Guest
Where in the bible does it say that getting baptized removes all our sins up to that point?
If I'm wrong, tell me because I'm stupid on alot of things..lol
Repenting is going from not trusting Christ for your salvation to trusting Christ for your salvation. From not believing in His person to believing in His person. Changing our mind about who we think Christ is.
All we do is acknowledge that we are a sinner and need His salvation.. And repent from our unbelief in Christ.
It isn't until we are saved that we can start to see how we really missed the mark or our specific sins.
Here is an article that looks at 2 Tim. 2:11-13. I like to use this website from time to time as it tackles some "seemingly" conflicting obscure scriptures. It has a place at the bottom of the article where people can ask questions. I have often learned a lot from these questions as many of us have the same ones.
This article is NOT for those that have made up their minds that Jesus leaves us for whatever reason we can come up with in our own natural human thinking - it is for those that are open to listen to the Holy Spirit within them reveal the beauty of their Lord. He is faithful to us.
What If I Deny Jesus? (2 Timothy 2:11–13)
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.” (2 Tim. 2:11–13)
This is a trustworthy saying that comes in two parts and both parts are trustworthy for the simple reason that Jesus is trustworthy, even when you’re not.
Destined to reign in life
The first part of the trustworthy saying begins like this: “If we died with him.” The Christian life begins at death. This is what makes the gospel unique. Every manmade religion preaches self-denial and dying to self, but the gospel simply declares, “You died.”
But more than that, we died, so that Christ might live through us. It’s an if-then statement. If A, then B. “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me” (Gal. 2:20).
“But wait,” says Paul. “There’s more. This trustworthy saying comes with bonus features. We don’t merely live, we also endure and reign.” This new life we have in Christ is a new kind of life characterized by supernatural endurance and reigning in all things.
If Paul had said, “Work hard and endure and maybe you will get to reign,” that would be nothing special or trustworthy. That’s how the world works. But it’s not how the kingdom works.
Verse 12 follows right after verse 11. Paul is describing the life we have in union with the One who already overcame, already endured, and who now reigns. “This life we have in Christ is an enduring and reigning life,” says Paul. “It’s like nothing on earth.”
Do you see? In the first part of the trustworthy saying, Paul is giving us a three-part punchline. “You know you died with Christ, right?” Yes, Paul, I know. “Well do you also know that you will live with Christ?” Sure, Paul, in heaven. “No, not just in heaven, but here and now. You will endure here. You will reign in life here. This is a trustworthy saying that deserves your full acceptance.” Oh, I didn’t know that Paul. That’s really good news!
Many Christians are looking forward to a future life with Christ but they are not ruling and reigning with him here and now. They don’t know they can. They’ve been told life is one big test and maybe, if they are careful, they’ll get a crown at the end. But the abundant life Christ promised is experienced by those who know and trust him now.
What if I disown Jesus?
This brings us to the second part of the passage: “If we disown him, he will also disown us.” The King James says, “If we deny him, he will deny us” (v.12) which is a better translation since it’s the same word Jesus uses in Matthew 10:33.
An insecure believer worries, What if I deny Jesus in a moment of weakness? But Paul is not talking about this. He is not talking about Christians at all, but those who reject Christ and will one day reap the consequences of their choice. There’s no grace for the faithless because the faithless will not receive it. If you don’t believe God is good to you, you will have difficulty experiencing his goodness.
Do you see? There are those who confess Christ and those who deny him. If you have denied him, you may yet confess him, but if you have confessed him, you cannot deny him – at least not to the point where he would deny you.
If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself. (2 Tim 2:13)
This verse has been used to sow fear into the hearts of the saints. “If you are not constant in your faith every single day, if you disown Jesus just one time, God will punish you!” It’s as if the preceding verses weren’t even there. It’s as if your unfaithfulness (or sin) was greater than his faithfulness (or grace). Hear that slap? That’s the Apostle Paul doing a face-palm!
To recap, Paul says if we die with Christ, we will live, endure, and reign with him. Each follows the other and this is a trustworthy saying.
Will Jesus deny me?
So why does Paul start talking about disowning and denying in the second part of the passage? He does it to reinforce his point which is that Christ is trustworthy. Here’s the punchline: since Christ cannot disown himself, Christ cannot disown you! Not ever. You are one with the Lord. His future is your future and his future is very good!
Keep reminding them of these things… (2 Tim 2:14)
Dead religion says you have to perform and endure to be saved, but the gospel of grace says we stand on Christ alone. He is our rock, and our sure foundation. We stand on his promises, not ours.
Do you see? The unbeliever falls on account of his faithlessness, but we stand on account of Christ’s faithfulness. Even if you have a bad day, or a moment of faithlessness, he remains utterly faithful, for he cannot disown himself. This is a trustworthy saying!
We who have acknowledged Christ before others cannot unacknowledge him. We who have died with Christ cannot un-die. We who have been born again cannot be unborn. If you were to deny him, as Peter did three times, Jesus won’t disown you, for he cannot disown himself.
Here is the link if anyone wants to read the questions at the bottom.
https://escapetoreality.org/2014/07/23/what-if-i-deny-jesus-2-timothy-2v12/
Hi Grace,
I'm really busy today and read thru your post quickly. I'll read it again Tomorrow morning.
Just the quick glance show me conflict between 2 Timothy 2:12 and 13.
Do you not see it??
Anyway, soon with further comments.
Romans 11 is speaking about BELIEVERS. Jews, the "son" of God, Israel, AND believers.
Paul is speaking to gentiles here. He's comparing them to the Jews which DENIED Christ.
If THEY could be cut off, imagine those that are grafted in.
Romans 11:13-22 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my [a]fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
This goes along very well with Mathew 22, The Marriage Feast.
Those invited were cast out and EVERYONE was invited to the banquet. But they had to be dressed properly or they would be thrown out where there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The proper clothing, is the covering of Christ.
If God did not spare the natural branches (the Jews) but cut them off because of UNBELIEF, He will also not spare the gentiles to whom Paul preched.
That's OK.
Sounds like everybody has one except me.
Some go often enough even to make up for my absence!!
I've always been OSAS but to admit that on this thread would put me in the same category as some very rude insulting people that I would rather not be associated with.
So for the sake of what is going on in this thread, I will no longer admit I'm OSAS.
So for the sake of what is going on in this thread, I will no longer admit I'm OSAS.
- Status