The Lakewood Church

[Infusion]

Hi josephsdreams

I hesitate answering you because I truly believe we each have a personal relationship with Jesus and so, while we share many same beliefs, some are just for us on a personal level.

If you tend to believe that thinking about punching your brother is a sin, how can I go against what God's
Spirit has told you?

I can only tell you what I've learned from experienced Christians that have done a lot of counselling to troubled persons. I'm not saying that you're one...Just to say that this is not my opinion but what I've been taught. I do agree with it however.

How could just thinking about something be a sin?
We think all the time. We have difficulty controlling our thoughts because we're fragile humans.

So what did Jesus mean in Mathew 5?
If one Lusts after a woman, he has already committed adultery. So one is not allowed to Think of a woman?
No. A thought is not sinful it's normal. Dwelling on a thought and building upon it could lead to sin.
Thou shalt not covet. Are you thinking of coveting? And what if you are coveting? At what point is it sin?
I trust Jesus to save me. He knows my heart. Is it living in darkness? God knows our heart. If we're sincere and living in the Light, I would not worry. How could we experience the joy of knowing God if we even worry about our thoughts?

We should do our best and rest in the Lord.
HE is our Sabbath rest.

Anyway, I'd rather you thought of punching me than really punching me!

We're on a road...

Fran

No
Everybody does not think covetous thoughts and lustful thoughts about other mens wives all the time. Everybody does not think of doing wrong things all the time. You ask what point is it a sin? Its a sin when you do it. Its not normal to lust and covet and you should not be telling yourself its ok. You say if we are living in the light I need not to worry but this behavior is not living in the light its living in darkness and sin.

 

[Infusion]

Just finished watching the Lakewood service.
It was tremendous from start to finish with one flaw.
They made a rather large plea for money through tithing.
I've never heard them do it quite like this before.
But I wasn't going to let that ruin my experience so I brushed it off and then heard a great sermon by Joel to finish it.

So you listened to the sermon once and it confirmed all we said about him.

 

[Infusion]

The teaching of tithing will be one of the last sacred cows of the religious system to fall.

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How does tithing mean giving to the church when it started 8000 years before the church existed? Do you think tithing might mean giving the money to the Lord like Jacob first said at the pillar? Do you think giving it to a rich guy is giving it to the Lord?

 

[Infusion]

... And he's not preaching some "prosperity gospel'. He is preaching a gospel of hope and encouragement. He wants us to know that God is bigger than our problems and that if we stay in faith He will bring us through them. That with God, anything is possible. And it doesn't matter how big your problems are, they are nothing compared to God's power.

He also preaches about being patient and staying faithful in tough times. He's not about getting rich or successful, he's about staying in faith and believing that God truly does rescue those who call upon Him..

Acts 2:21 KJV:
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

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She says hes not preaching wealth or self prosperity LOL
They literally introduce him at times as the preacher that preaches prosperity and wealth no kidding.

 

[Infusion]

When Joel was new and on TV, I had already been saved for many years.
He was so refreshing.
I went out and bought his first book and I couldn't put it down.
Tremendous stuff.
I was very encouraged, at a time when I needed encouragement.
Then people came along and said all kinds of bad things about him.
Many Christians were all too glad to jump on the band wagon and bash another Christian, especially one that made a lot of money and ran a big church.
Complaining about Joel Osteen has turned into out right hatred for him.
Why?
Because he is successful?
And you're not?
Try living your best life now and see how quickly things change for you.
And that ain't no devil talking.
They don't want you to live your best life now.
They want to keep you down and to keep bringing others with you.
That is hardly having "victory in Jesus!

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Another preacher said a rich man cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.... oh whats his name again.... oh yea Jesus.

 

[Infusion]

Willie,

you are old enough to know better than to say that ALL' who are not on-board with
a denominational-doctrine , or creed, or statement of Faith, are an 'hater', this is heart-breaking'!

is this what is called, 'across-the-board-judgment'?

it must be a question that all of us have to ask ourselves - is perceived-conceived-hatred REAL??

for a Christian', some things just have to GO', but, we have to 'root' them out on our own and own them,
and 'OVER-COME' them, in order to be and do what our Saviour expects of us...

most of us know that 'every denomination' 'thinks' that 'they only have the truth'!

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I find it strange also that those who have a different idea the Joel supporters seem to feel attacked and attack back.

 

[Infusion]

Fran, no one ever answers you on these things.
I think they are all afraid of you.

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or its been answered many times and vids are posted from the first page and you both arent able to keep up.

 

[Infusion]

Goodnight Guys,
i would like to make a comment. i will try to be fair. Joel is very popular even here in Guyana. lots of people know of him and listen to his programme that comes over every day around 7 am over the radio. many hindus have told me personally that they listen to him. my neighbours, who are not believers, listen to him. i think he is a great motivational speaker.
i wish he would centre his speeches on Christ though. Some of the people that listen to him still dont believe in Jesus Christ after years of listening.the conviction is not there. and that is what worries me.
But i dont believe we should attack.or make fun of him. Pray for him. Remember David and Saul. Saul was anointed to lead the country. He lost the anointing and was doing his own thing. Yet David did not attack him when he had the chance. He said, How can he put his hands on the Lord's anointed?
We all have to answer to God. those on the pulpit and we too, on the pews.

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Nobody is 'attacking' him any more than you just did. We are just making obvious points that people need to hear. I could say things about his personal character but I am keeping it about his sermons. And they dont believe now cause thats all he is , a motivational speaker.

 

[Magenta]

Another preacher said a rich man cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven....
oh whats his name again.... oh yea Jesus.

Chapter and verse please

 

[Infusion]

I truly doubt that gospel message would be effective!
Most Christians don't understand that verse.

Did you sell everything you own to follow Him?
How do you expect a non-believer to if he's hearing that message?


Fran

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no... everybody understands it fine except the people who just dont want to.

 

[Infusion]

Chapter and verse please

matt19:23-24
next time look it up yourself. im not your mama.

 

[Magenta]

matt19:23-24
next time look it up yourself. im not your mama.

Next time don't lie about what Jesus said.

 

[Infusion]

Quite simply, Joel Osteen is uneducated in the Bible, a pastor without qualifications, who has adopted all the worst features of Word of Faith and the positive confession movement. He doesn't know the Bible either. Last year, he was mentioning about some old Testament characters, and he got the stories all wrong. Sorry, that is Sunday School material. Any child of 10, raised in a Christian home should know these things. He has never studied the Bible seriously, though, so why would he know that Daniel was thrown into the lions den, or that Jonah was in the belly of the great fish, for example? Very sad.

He is a part of the heresy that pretends to be encouraging, by telling people they can "confess" what they want, and they will be rich, healed etc. That is the worst and most discouraging heresy that ever sprang out of Satan's mouth. Because, this life is not perfect, people are not always healed, or made rich. But through suffering we can indeed grow in God and character. Easy times are actually not conducive to Christian growth.

"More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out by the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5

So has Joel ever preached on that passage? Because the Word Faith people have told me that verse doesn't really count.

Besides being a poor Bible student, preaching another gospel, the Osteens also believe we should serve God for OURSELVES! Not for God! What a narcissistic and twisted gospel! Growing close to Christ means he must increase, and I must decrease, to quote John the Baptist. I guess he forgot this part of the Scriptures:

“present our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is our spiritual worship.” Romans 12:1

As for what he says about repentance, well, certainly God has no real expectations that we would really deny ourselves, lift up our cross and follow him? At least, that is what I read Joel says.

I was going to attach a few links to this post about the heresy and lies of Joel Osteen. But do you know what?? There are just too many of them.

I think it was Santuzza who send she would not follow anyone with one heretical belief. Well, after reading 4 or 5 articles, she doesn't have to worry about only finding one heresy. There are so many!

Please feel free to google "Heresy and lies of Joel Osteen." You will be overwhelmed with how many articles there are.

But then, I have always believed the Word Faith is total heresy, and a lie from the pit of hell, so yes Joel fits right in with that heresy.

As for Allan, if you keep on advertising this person and his services, I will report you to the admins. Proselytizing for another gospel is not allowed on CC.

Thats exactly what he always teaches too. And why do people always ask others to look stuff up for them? I think they fear what they find.

 

[Infusion]

Next time don't lie about what Jesus said.

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How is that a lie? I just posted the verse.

 

[Infusion]

Angela, I believe that Joel Osteen is a good preacher.
I am sorry he does not meet your standards.
I would say he is a pastor by title only.
The real pastoring at Lakewood is no doubt done by many other people.
Joel is the face of the church and does the preaching.
You don't like what he preaches.
I do.
You can choose not to listen to him.
I not only choose to listen to him, but I enjoy inviting others to do the same thing because I believe he's better than just about everyone available on TV and internet.
That's my opinion.
Your threats will not change my opinion.
I'm sorry that he is in some way hurting you.
I personally find him to be very helpful.
Would you like for me to pray for you over this pain you are feeling?

lol
they are just stating well known facts.
why do you keep saying people are threatening you or hurting? this is just crazy.

 

[Infusion]

Why is it that some people think they have to tell others they MUST believe Jesus only as THEY see Him, or else it's obvious they already have one leg burning from the fires of Hell?

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Joel says you dont even have to believe in Jesus. I guess hes perfect for you after all.

 

[Infusion]

2 Timothy 4:1-4

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

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Youre awesome

 

[Infusion]

Well, I think you fully understand that no one sees Jesus or God or the Holy Spirit or reads each word and concept of the Bible exactly as another person does. Yet some actually do believe there is no possibility that what they have come to believe about any or all of those things can be any way but the one and only perfect way they, themselves, understand it. And they make no bones about quickly letting others know "YOU HAVE TO BE WRONG.... BECAUSE I KNOW I AM RIGHT!!!"

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You were the only one attacking people on this thread so why dont you answer your own question sir.

 

[Infusion]

No, not in the way most Western Christians try to impose it upon others.

Suppose an Isis fighter who never in his life meets anyone who has ever heard of Jesus, comes to understand Jesus' way of loving others and wants this for his life.

The next morning, a Christian B-117 pilot drops a bomb on him.

Where does he end up? He never heard this strange-sounding English word, "Jesus." He doesn't even know what a "Bible" is. Yet he was made by the same God who made you, and he was touched by the same sort of mysterious inner love we all claim.

Now, I will play Larry King, and try to get you to say he went to Hell. Are you going to let me do that?

I think there is far more to Jesus than the narrow "rule box" we have placed Him in.

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If he never heard of a bible or Jesus then how did he come to know him overnight?

 

[Infusion]

Yes. So many of us try to insist that if the words typeset in a black book aren't read to you, then God is incapable of touching your heart. We honestly do seem to think that "coming to God through Jesus" is swearing allegiance to a certain name we were taught in our culture.

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So you are standing with Joel on Jesus isnt necessary to be a Christian or be saved huh. That pretty much throws out the whole bible huh. I guess it negates the entire religon. You should maybe look into simple self help motivators that are not claiming to be pastors.