Did any earthly human join God in Heaven before Jesus?

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also......
[h=1]Revelation 1:4-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

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Jon4TheCross said:
also......
Revelation 1:4-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
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We all have the Bible so copying and pasting a whole bunch of scripture without any comments is rather useless. Do you have an actual point that you're trying to make?
 
Magenta said:
Jesus said, No one has ever gone into heaven except
the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. John 3:13
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Thank you, Jesus was in heaven before the first human was created.. He was before all..

And no human ever deserved the right to be in heaven, All have sinned,,
 
eternally-gratefull said:

Thank you, Jesus was in heaven before the first human was created.. He was before all..

And no human ever deserved the right to be in heaven, All have sinned,,
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Jesus was conceived through the Holy Spirit. He did not exist in Heaven except as the preincarnate Word.
Matt 1:20 and John 1:1-3
 
What does it mean that ENOCH was TRANSLATED that he should NOT see death....or ELIJAH being TAKEN up in a chariot of fire....where was he taken to, THE MOON?....or where was ENOCH TRANSLATED too...FIJI......??

NO man has swam the PACIFIC....but that does not mean that men have not crossed the PACIFIC......!
NO MAN has ASCENDED into heaven......but that does not mean that men have not been TAKEN to heaven..............!

YEAH I KNOW!
 
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dcontroversal said:
What does it mean that ENOCH was TRANSLATED that he should NOT see death....or ELIJAH being TAKEN up in a chariot of fire....where was he taken to, THE MOON?....or where was ENOCH TRANSLATED too...FIJI......??
NO man has swam the PACIFIC....but that does not mean that men have not crossed the PACIFIC......!
NO MAN has ASCENDED into heaven......does not mean that men have not been TAKEN to heaven..............!
YEAH I KNOW!
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I'm pretty sure you know exactly how to use the biblical tools on the internet and find out what it means but the bottom line is Jesus said no man has seen God and he came along a lot later than Enoch and Elijah so bottom line, was Jesus lying or not?
 
StanJ said:
I'm pretty sure you know exactly how to use the biblical tools on the internet and find out what it means but the bottom line is Jesus said no man has seen God and he came along a lot later than Enoch and Elijah so bottom line, was Jesus lying or not?
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I am pretty sure that no matter what anyone states you like to argue ;) .....the word TRANSLATED is clear...so is TAKEN UP.....and your bottom line question is moot.......only a fool would accuse Jesus of lying!

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]was taken[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μετετέθη[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]metetethē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3346a[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to transfer, change[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from meta and tithémi[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]TOOK[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μετέθηκεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]metethēken[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3346a[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to transfer, change[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from meta and tithémi[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And....DID Moses see God when God put Moses in the cleft of the rock and walked by? Simple Yes or NO will suffice...
 
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dcontroversal said:
I am pretty sure that no matter what anyone states you like to argue ;) .....the word TRANSLATED is clear...so is TAKEN UP.....and your bottom line question is moot.......only a fool would accuse Jesus of lying!

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]was taken[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μετετέθη[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]metetethē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3346a[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to transfer, change[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from meta and tithémi[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]TOOK[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μετέθηκεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]metethēken[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3346a[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to transfer, change[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from meta and tithémi[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And....DID Moses see God when God put Moses in the cleft of the rock and walked by? Simple Yes or NO will suffice...
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Then you are surely wrong.
In modern English, Gen 5:24 states; Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
Clearly this does not mean to heaven based on what Jesus said, so why equivocate?
Moses is irrelevant and a red herring that you use to avoid the real issue.
 
Embankment said:
... not a sole was worthy of Gods presence.
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you're not wrong. ;)

Exodus 3:5
Then He said, "Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."
 
Magenta said:
Jesus said, No one has ever gone into heaven except
the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. John 3:13
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This is a great example of how important is the source we use. It can change the doctrine.

Critical text:
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." (NASB)

Church text:
"No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven." (ISV)

If we use the church text, it is clear this is not about the same thing as the event of assumption of Enoch, Elijah or Moses. Because Christ was not in heaven in that moment "physically".

If we use the critical text, there can be a problem - Enoch/Elijah vs nobody ascended into heaven.
But even there is a little help - the past tense in Christ's saying. He said only the son of Man ascended into heaven in the past, i.e. He was not talking about His after resurrection ascension.
 
trofimus said:
This is a great example of how important is the source we use. It can change the doctrine.

Critical text:
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." (NASB)

Church text:
"No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven." (ISV)

If we use the church text, it is clear this is not about the same thing as the event of assumption of Enoch, Elijah or Moses. Because Christ was not in heaven in that moment "physically".

If we use the critical text, there can be a problem - Enoch/Elijah vs nobody ascended into heaven.
But even there is a little help - the past tense in Christ's saying. He said only the son of Man ascended into heaven in the past, i.e. He was not talking about His after resurrection ascension.
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Maybe you will understand it better if you read John 1:18 and FYI, Moses did die. Joshua 1:1.
 
StanJ said:
Maybe you will understand it better if you read John 1:18 and FYI, Moses did die. Joshua 1:1.
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Moses did die, but after his death his body was taken up. See Jude, there is a reference to this event.

Thats why Moses could together with Elijah talk with Jesus on the mount.
 
trofimus said:
Moses did die, but after his death his body was taken up. See Jude, there is a reference to this event.
Thats why Moses could together with Elijah talk with Jesus on the mount.
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All Jude :9 mentions is the contention between Michael and Satan. This was a rabbinic story that has no basis in the OT and what Jude was dealing with here was not about where Moses's body ended up, only about who has real power in God's creation. Regardless, Moses died and was buried by God. Deuteronomy 34:5-7
It is obvious you do not understand the purpose of the Transfiguration in Matthew 17 so I suggest you read the following article.
Matthew 17:1-7 - Understanding The Transfiguration
 
Embankment said:
My understanding is that before Jesus death burial and reserection not a sole was worthy of Gods presence. Godly people before Jesus went to Purgatory. Looking for scripture one way or the other.
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Purgatory is not supported by the Bible OT or NT..

It in fact denial of the sufficency of the Atonement of Jesus.. We are forgiven all our sins through the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ and therefore there is no place bejond this world where we need to get our sins purged....

John when He was on the island of Patmos was taken to heaven in the spirit and from that experience He wrote the Book of Revelation.. Also Elijah was caught up by God and thus it can be stated that Elijah went to heaven..
 
StanJ said:
All Jude :9 mentions is the contention between Michael and Satan. This was a rabbinic story that has no basis in the OT and what Jude was dealing with here was not about where Moses's body ended up, only about who has real power in God's creation. Regardless, Moses died and was buried by God. Deuteronomy 34:5-7
It is obvious you do not understand the purpose of the Transfiguration in Matthew 17 so I suggest you read the following article.
Matthew 17:1-7 - Understanding The Transfiguration
Click to expand...

Again, Moses did die, but his body was then taken up. Jude is the Word of God, so it must be true.

"But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
 
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