Did any earthly human join God in Heaven before Jesus?

[Embankment]

Jesus existed from the beginning, he is the alpha and the omega.
Yet, until his death and reserection the price for sin had not been paid. That was the start of the New Covenant God made with us. Making us pure through Jesus and exceptable to join with God.

 

[StanJ]

I knew before I asked you anything you would cut and run.
I also knew you would not be able to answer me in truth.
Your theology has many flaws in it.

You are a troll and soon to be ignored.

 

[StanJ]

Jesus existed from the beginning, he is the alpha and the omega.
Yet, until his death and reserection the price for sin had not been paid. That was the start of the New Covenant God made with us. Making us pure through Jesus and exceptable to join with God.

God created time and the Holy Spirit caused Mary to conceive Jesus. Jesus started to exist the moment he did when humans born to Mary.

 

[BigJa]

You are a troll and soon to be ignored.

I do not believe God is going to see it your way.
No...I know He is not going to see it your way.

But anyway...that is your problem not mine.

 

[prove-all]

Your the first person I have ever heard to to argue that Jesus did not exist until he was born.
except those who deny the trinity.. Not sure what your trying to prove here.

Before Jesus was conceived by Mary, He was not the Son of God.
God is the divine family. He was one of that family.

In John 1:1 He is called the “Logos”—the Word. He, like the Father, had existed eternally.
But He is nowhere in God’s Word referred to as a son of God prior to conception by Mary.
His human birth was His first birth[seed of David]. He gave up the glory He had with the
Father in order to be born into the world to save the world.

The Word was [with] God

at that prehistoric time of the first verse of John 1, the Word was not (yet) the Son of God.
He divested himself of His glory as a spirit divinity to be begotten as a human person.

He was made God’s Son, through being begotten or sired by God and born of the virgin Mary,
and later [resurrected] as the firstborn Son of God, declared Son of God at his second birth.

“And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness,
by the resurrection from the dead.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you speaking from experience?

I have not died and been given that body yet, so no.. why?

 

[StanJ]

I think you are playing on semantics here. and we may not disagree
Again, Jesus own words shows When he responded to the pharisees by saying before abraham existed (was) I am (literally I I AM, or the same words YHWH used to tell moses his name in the burning bush, which is why they picked up stones to stone he, he declared to them he was God.

At that point Jesus was the hypostatic union of man and God and as such spoke with one voice and one personality. Jesus and the word cannot be separated they are one and as such he is God. God is The Great I Am and in Genesis he was shown as God, The Word and the Holy Spirit. The only begotten son of God became God when he was born. Do not know what begotten means? Now the Triune nature of God is referred to as of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit but it was not so in the Old Testament but he was still the same Triune God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wrong. The body you will be given when Jesus returns will be a glorified body yes but the same body you have when you died.
Jesus was not Jesus until he was born, that's why I he was given a name.

um wrong, the body I have now will return to the earth. It will not be the same body.

Jesus was jesus before he was born, He was just not in human form, He was in his own spirit..

 

[StanJ]

I have not died and been given that body yet, so no.. why?

Ignore him he's nothing but a troll and I'm sure he'll be gone soon.

 

[StanJ]

um wrong, the body I have now will return to the earth. It will not be the same body.
Jesus was jesus before he was born, He was just not in human form, He was in his own spirit..

So you don't believe in the resurrection of the Dead? You don't believe what Paul said in 1 Cor 15:52 or 1 Thess 4:13-18?
Where does the bible say Jesus was in spirit before he was born?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you don't believe in the resurrection of the Dead? You don't believe what Paul said in 1 Cor 15:52 or 1 Thess 4:13-18?
Where does the bible say Jesus was in spirit before he was born?

Again.

Jesus said, Before abraham existed, I AM

Jesus himself declared he existed before Abraham was even created..

The bible declares, Jesus had no beginning or ending, no mother or father, was before all things, all things were created through and by him, he has many names and titles. Son of man, Son of God, Immanuel. etc etc.. Jesus is not even his real name, It is a transliteration of his greek name "iesus" His real name I believe was "hebrew Yeshua" Joshua.

so again, I am not sure what point you are trying to make..

 

[BigJa]

I have not died and been given that body yet, so no.. why?

Then how would you know all this you are proclaiming on here is actually
the way you say it is to us?

 

[dcontroversal]

Then you are surely wrong.
In modern English, Gen 5:24 states; Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
Clearly this does not mean to heaven based on what Jesus said, so why equivocate?
Moses is irrelevant and a red herring that you use to avoid the real issue.

Well....the bible was not inspired in modern English and my point stands STAN.......

 

[StanJ]

Again.

Jesus said, Before abraham existed, I AM

Jesus himself declared he existed before Abraham was even created..

The bible declares, Jesus had no beginning or ending, no mother or father, was before all things, all things were created through and by him, he has many names and titles. Son of man, Son of God, Immanuel. etc etc.. Jesus is not even his real name, It is a transliteration of his greek name "iesus" His real name I believe was "hebrew Yeshua" Joshua.

so again, I am not sure what point you are trying to make..

Not answering my questions and repeating yourself doesn't make for a productive discussion. I'm not disputing what you say I'm asking questions to make you think. What did Jesus mean when he said I am? He didn't say I existed. What did God tell Moses to tell the people? Who was speaking when Jesus said this? As an inseparable hypostatic union, Jesus and the Word where one so of course the Word existed before Abraham and the Word was who told Moses to tell the people I am has sent me. You can't just ignore scripture to protect your own point of view. It ALL has to fit together and be used in arriving at an understanding. 2 Tim 3:16
The Bible declares that Melchizedek had no beginning and no end and that he resembled the Son of God. Heb 71-3. My points are made when you answer the questions and stop trying to deflect to other issues.

 

[StanJ]

Well....the bible was not inspired in modern English and my point stands STAN.......

Well it sure wasn't inspired in the King James language so why wouldn't you want to use a thoroughly modern and more accurate English version than a 400 year old Elizabethan English version to understand what the origin language is actually saying in our modern language? You are actually not making a point.

 

[dcontroversal]

Well it sure wasn't inspired in the King James language so why wouldn't you want to use a thoroughly modern and more accurate English version than a 400 year old Elizabethan English version to understand what the origin language is actually saying in our modern language? You are actually not making a point.[/QUOTE\]

I actually thought I made a very good point....The Bible was not inspired in English whether it be 1611, 2011 or 2911 English......

 

[StanJ]

I actually thought I made a very good point....The Bible was not inspired in English whether it be 1611, 2011 or 2911 English......

Exactly which is why it is required to study to get the gist of what the Greek was trying to convey in our modern language as it's a matter of linguistics. But besides that you're still not making a point as it relates to my post.

 

[garee]

My understanding is that before Jesus death burial and reserection not a sole was worthy of Gods presence. Godly people before Jesus went to Purgatory. Looking for scripture one way or the other.

The old testament saint were held in the bosom of Abraham, as the presence of God as sort of a holding pen called a grave until the trial of Christ . When Christ said he was finished as the veil was rent the graves were opened and in their souls (not having received their new incorruptible bodies) they were witnessed by many angels. They are sleeping waiting for the wake up call . This is the first resurrection in which all who die in Christ enter because nothing could hold them..

Corrupted flesh and blood could never enter our resting place until the final resurrection when those asleep and those who remain reigning with Christ on earth will both hear the wake up call. .."Arise and receive your new incorruptible bodies" which no one has received other than Christ, as a one time demonstration by which we know him no more forever more.

God remains without beginning of days or end of Spirit life .He who alone is supernatural (no beginning) has no mother or father in that way.

The old testament saints that had the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ abiding in them.They by the Spirit that dwelt in them looked ahead, we look back, both receiving the end of our faith, even the salvation of our souls.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1Pe 1:9-11

Purgatory simply make the faith of God in respect to the grace of God without effect .

 

[John146]

when I die, and am given a glorified body, I will still be me.. the body I have now will no longer exist.

Same with Jesus, He was sirit, and entered a human body, and given a human name.. But it was still jesus.

Scripture please...

1 Corinthians 15
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[BigJa]

I will tell you one thing I know you will feel for sure when you leave this world.
You will feel your soul separate from your flesh. It will be a tearing sensation.
And it will seem as you are caught up in a time lock.