1984, Third Chapter

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
G

Galatea

Guest
#1
#1
Hello fellow readers! I realize most people have read more than three chapters, I finished the book myself last week and am reading something else, but others may have just finished chapter three because of life. This is the thread to discuss the book so far, or anything else that comes to mind. I don't mind rabbit trails at all. :)

In the third chapter, Winston has a dream about his mother and baby sister. He thinks his mother sacrificed herself for him, but he is not sure if he remembers correctly. There is a poignant line "Tragedy, he perceived, belonged to the ancient time, to a time when there were still privacy, love, and friendship, and when the members of a family stood by one another without needing to know the reason."

The dystopia of London in 1984 has no room for love, it is very sad- but Orwell was not a Christian, so he did not realize that a government could not banish love. He then has a dream about Julia in the Golden Country, a pastoral, private place.

We are also introduced to the Party slogan, "Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#2
Aug 2, 2009
24,640
4,298
113
#2
You make the book sound so good, Galatea! :rolleyes: It almost makes me want to read it.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#3
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,041
113
77
#3
Galatea said:
Hello fellow readers! I realize most people have read more than three chapters, I finished the book myself last week and am reading something else, but others may have just finished chapter three because of life. This is the thread to discuss the book so far, or anything else that comes to mind. I don't mind rabbit trails at all. :)

In the third chapter, Winston has a dream about his mother and baby sister. He thinks his mother sacrificed herself for him, but he is not sure if he remembers correctly. There is a poignant line "Tragedy, he perceived, belonged to the ancient time, to a time when there were still privacy, love, and friendship, and when the members of a family stood by one another without needing to know the reason."

The dystopia of London in 1984 has no room for love, it is very sad- but Orwell was not a Christian, so he did not realize that a government could not banish love. He then has a dream about Julia in the Golden Country, a pastoral, private place.

We are also introduced to the Party slogan, "Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."
Click to expand...
Its been a long time since I read it but i may now read it again. Orwell wrote it in 1948 he got the title by reversing the last
two digits. 1984 would have seemed a fair way ahead to him then.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#5
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#5
first comes 'The Grapes of Wrath' - then '1984' - then 'Gone with the Wind' -

"And then I saw another Book opened"...
 
Dude653

Dude653

Senior Member
#6
Mar 19, 2011
12,500
1,078
113
#6
I started reading 1984 but I never finished it. Just couldn't get into it.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#7
#7
zeroturbulence said:
You make the book sound so good, Galatea! :rolleyes: It almost makes me want to read it.
Click to expand...
If you don't want to read it, you can listen to it. It's a cautionary tale against totalitarianism, so not very pleasant reading.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#8
#8
tanakh said:
Its been a long time since I read it but i may now read it again. Orwell wrote it in 1948 he got the title by reversing the last
two digits. 1984 would have seemed a fair way ahead to him then.
Click to expand...
I read it in high school, twenty years ago, so don't mind reading it again, especially since it is referenced so much nowadays. I'm sure a lot of people thought 2000 was light years away, and now it is 2017. Time flies.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#9
#9
oldethennew said:
first comes 'The Grapes of Wrath' - then '1984' - then 'Gone with the Wind' -

"And then I saw another Book opened"...
Click to expand...
Not quite sure what you meant, here.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#10
#10
Dude653 said:
I started reading 1984 but I never finished it. Just couldn't get into it.
Click to expand...
It is rather depressing, the mood is hopeless, not a happy book.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#11
Jul 3, 2015
58,715
28,123
113
#11
I had wondered where we were :D I have not read any more of 1984 since I finished chapter 3, so I am glad to discover I am not falling behind... :) The cruelty of children described in 1984 really reminded me of Lord of the Flies. I know, I said that already in another thread :D I found my previous post, and will have to catch up on thread reading also :D This is from the other thread:

I have not read this page of the thread yet, but did glimpse posts about the youth of the story, and they had struck me too, as being quite ripe for the picking and planting into the world of totalitarianism, and reminiscent of Lord of The Flies in that way. There is no room in the world Winston inhabits for anything private or personal. All goodness and mercy and grace and love have been stamped out. There is only blind obedience, and loyalty, or swift retribution upon looking away from what is prescribed as being for the good of all.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#12
#12
Magenta said:
I had wondered where we were :D I have not read any more of 1984 since I finished chapter 3, so I am glad to discover I am not falling behind... :) The cruelty of children described in 1984 really reminded me of Lord of the Flies. I know, I said that already in another thread :D I found my previous post, and will have to catch up on thread reading also :D This is from the other thread:

I have not read this page of the thread yet, but did glimpse posts about the youth of the story, and they had struck me too, as being quite ripe for the picking and planting into the world of totalitarianism, and reminiscent of Lord of The Flies in that way. There is no room in the world Winston inhabits for anything private or personal. All goodness and mercy and grace and love have been stamped out. There is only blind obedience, and loyalty, or swift retribution upon looking away from what is prescribed as being for the good of all.
Click to expand...
I may have already said this, so bear with me if I am repeating myself. Stalin had a quote about the greatest weapon is education, or something along those lines. It's really quite frightening. It is reminiscent of the Hitler Youth movement, too. I do believe they were encourage to report disloyal family members.

I love Lord of the Flies- but there is a difference. The children there made up the rules on their own- copying their betters, but there was a small group of boys who went against the masses. Simon, Piggy, and Ralph- these three and the younger boys (I think) did not succumb to the cruelty of the rest. Orwell's book has no hope- but Golding's does.

A thought that ran through my head while reading the book this time was this, if you had a modicum of sense, wouldn't you pretend to be a Prole? I mean, the Party does not have inherited status. The book states that people born to Proles could become Inner Party or Outer Party members. Inner Party members might have a child that is a Prole.

I don't know, if I was in school and had some with-it-ness, I'd pretend to be a Prole and have freedom, maybe even start a revolution.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#13
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#13
Galatea said:
I may have already said this, so bear with me if I am repeating myself. Stalin had a quote about the greatest weapon is education, or something along those lines. It's really quite frightening. It is reminiscent of the Hitler Youth movement, too. I do believe they were encourage to report disloyal family members.

I love Lord of the Flies- but there is a difference. The children there made up the rules on their own- copying their betters, but there was a small group of boys who went against the masses. Simon, Piggy, and Ralph- these three and the younger boys (I think) did not succumb to the cruelty of the rest. Orwell's book has no hope- but Golding's does.

A thought that ran through my head while reading the book this time was this, if you had a modicum of sense, wouldn't you pretend to be a Prole? I mean, the Party does not have inherited status. The book states that people born to Proles could become Inner Party or Outer Party members. Inner Party members might have a child that is a Prole.

I don't know, if I was in school and had some with-it-ness, I'd pretend to be a Prole and have freedom, maybe even start a revolution.
Click to expand...
But that sort of person would not — could not — stand to associate with the Proles.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#14
#14
Willie-T said:
But that sort of person would not — could not — stand to associate with the Proles.
Click to expand...
What I mean is this, there are many people who "play dumb" because they see the lay of the land, and don't want responsibility or something. If I were in the Spies as a kid, and kind of perspicacious, I'd see that the Proles have a lot of freedom that people in the Party DON'T have. Kids (at least teens) are rebellious by nature, so if I were tired of being monitored all the time, I might be a kid smart enough to "play dumb" to not be inducted into the Party and relegated to the Proles- especially if I were a kid with a revolutionary turn of mind. Or a Prole with ability. The Book said that the people in the classes were not stratified.

There are many people who aren't interested in power and would rather be an average schmuck than be in a position of power.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#15
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#15
Galatea said:
What I mean is this, there are many people who "play dumb" because they see the lay of the land, and don't want responsibility or something. If I were in the Spies as a kid, and kind of perspicacious, I'd see that the Proles have a lot of freedom that people in the Party DON'T have. Kids (at least teens) are rebellious by nature, so if I were tired of being monitored all the time, I might be a kid smart enough to "play dumb" to not be inducted into the Party and relegated to the Proles- especially if I were a kid with a revolutionary turn of mind. Or a Prole with ability. The Book said that the people in the classes were not stratified.

There are many people who aren't interested in power and would rather be an average schmuck than be in a position of power.
Click to expand...
I feel it might be like one of us moving to the Appalachians.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#16
#16
Willie-T said:
I feel it might be like one of us moving to the Appalachians.
Click to expand...
Well, I'm in Alabama, and many of us dream for a home in The Smoky Mountains, lol. As a matter of fact, my brother-in-law said he wished he could move onto a mountain on a big tract of land and be a mountain man. I think this sentiment was in reference to an ordinance in the city that makes fireworks illegal, so kind of long the lines of doing what you want.

I don't know, if I was a kid with some sense, I might think- "This constantly being monitored life is for the birds, I'm going to live like a Prole in the English countryside." I kind of think the lady hanging out the diapers and singing a pop tune had the happiest life of all the characters mentioned. Winston often said the only people who sang were the Proles.

Living on a mountain in Appalachia singing Bluegrass songs sounds kind of nice, in my opinion. :)
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#17
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#17
Galatea said:
Well, I'm in Alabama, and many of us dream for a home in The Smoky Mountains, lol. As a matter of fact, my brother-in-law said he wished he could move onto a mountain on a big tract of land and be a mountain man. I think this sentiment was in reference to an ordinance in the city that makes fireworks illegal, so kind of long the lines of doing what you want.

I don't know, if I was a kid with some sense, I might think- "This constantly being monitored life is for the birds, I'm going to live like a Prole in the English countryside." I kind of think the lady hanging out the diapers and singing a pop tune had the happiest life of all the characters mentioned. Winston often said the only people who sang were the Proles.

Living on a mountain in Appalachia singing Bluegrass songs sounds kind of nice, in my opinion. :)
Click to expand...
I've done it for awhile in Eastern Tenn and NC (Smokies) and we sold everything up there. Couldn't exist that way.
 
G

Galatea

Guest
#18
#18
Willie-T said:
I've done it for awhile in Eastern Tenn and NC (Smokies) and we sold everything up there. Couldn't exist that way.
Click to expand...
It's funny how people from different areas think. Most people here go to one of two places on vacation: The Great Smokey Mountains or Disneyworld. A home in the mountains is kind of like the dream for people, here. But it might be because we are swamp dwellers (not really, but almost).
 
CLee622

CLee622

Senior Member
#19
Feb 27, 2017
220
4
18
#19
I know this has nothing to do with the thread but I was born in Alabama! Jasper :) parents moved here when I was a baby ;) lots of family still there.

But hey I did like the book. Had to read in school ;) freaky and realistic for a worldly-ish book.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#20
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#20
Galatea said:
It's funny how people from different areas think. Most people here go to one of two places on vacation: The Great Smokey Mountains or Disneyworld. A home in the mountains is kind of like the dream for people, here. But it might be because we are swamp dwellers (not really, but almost).
Click to expand...
I've lived most of my life right here on the waters of the Gulf, but I prefer the mountains.... NOT the people, however.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.