The Rapture of the Church

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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
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#41
Good day Joaniemarie,

I'm sure that I don't have to tell you not to listen to these people who are rejecting the Lord's promise to gather his church and that He is not going to send us through his wrath first. They dishonor Christ by not recognizing that he took upon himself the wrath that we deserve. They have no understanding that the gathering of the church is a separate event from the Lord's return to end the age. We are living in the last days and these are the false teachers that we are warned about.

Guard what you know to be the truth.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/B]

Thank you Ahwatukee. No., I'm not in the least bit swayed from looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ. I'm fully persuaded for much of the same reasons you mentioned here in your post. It's a major confidence as God meant it to be for us to know He sent Jesus to take our punishment and the coming judgment as only He can. There is no more condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

Been through some things in my 58yrs that God has used to show the truth for us who received Jesus. That we passed from death unto life because of Christ. Rom.8:1 is very clear
:D None of us believers can allow another person to steal away our confidence in Christ. :)

It seems many Christians on CC don't believe in Christ coming to rapture His bride before the tribulation begins. So all the more reason for those of us who do to tell them when we get the chance. If they don't believe they will be missing out on a great and precious truth meant to hold us in these last days here on earth.

I just don't understand why L Clarke thinks I'm slandering anyone??
 
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GaryA

Guest
#42
Ahwatukee:

Do you know why it ended up looking like this:


[QUOTE=LClark;3011709]It is a shame the you slander believers. ALL believe and look for His Coming (parousia). There is only ONE future coming in the Bible, the second advent of Christ.

Yes, Read Thessalonians in context. There are two ways the Christians read the Bible 1) eisegesis where we impose our man-made views on the text and confirm our biases. 2) exegesis where we let the Text speak to us

Actually take the time and sit down with your Bible and read 1 Thess. in context. It is NOT teaching a secret Rapture of the church that leaves airplanes crashing and clothes on the ground...that's Hollywood stuff...it may be good, clean entertainment but it is not faithful to the text of Scripture. The trouble with 'Bible' forums is that there is little room for Bible study...rather a shotgun approach of spewing out verses out of context. 1 Thess. is about the Second Advent of Christ, the Parousia. Learn to STUDY https://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2013/05/11/second-coming-rapture-vs-scripture-christian/
[/QUOTE]


instead of this? :


It is a shame the you slander believers. ALL believe and look for His Coming (parousia). There is only ONE future coming in the Bible, the second advent of Christ.

Yes, Read Thessalonians in context. There are two ways the Christians read the Bible 1) eisegesis where we impose our man-made views on the text and confirm our biases. 2) exegesis where we let the Text speak to us

Actually take the time and sit down with your Bible and read 1 Thess. in context. It is NOT teaching a secret Rapture of the church that leaves airplanes crashing and clothes on the ground...that's Hollywood stuff...it may be good, clean entertainment but it is not faithful to the text of Scripture. The trouble with 'Bible' forums is that there is little room for Bible study...rather a shotgun approach of spewing out verses out of context. 1 Thess. is about the Second Advent of Christ, the Parousia. Learn to STUDY https://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2013/05/11/second-coming-rapture-vs-scripture-christian/


I really wish you would learn how to properly modify quotes -- or, not do it at all...

Just sayin'...


My advice?

STOP changing the size of quoted text in your posts.

LET the quote reflect the other person's post as they posted it.

MAKE your text larger - fine.

LEAVE theirs alone.


Just a thought...

:)
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#43
I'm not in the least bit swayed from looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
Why do pre-trib folks believe that post-trib folks are not looking for that same blessed hope and glorious appearing that is referred to in Titus 2:13?

( We simply know that there are some other things which must happen first before that happens. )


None of us believers can allow another person to steal away our confidence in Christ.
Why do pre-trib folks believe that post-trib folks do not have confidence in Christ?


If they don't believe they will be missing out on a great and precious truth meant to hold us in these last days here on earth.
You should "hold up" better in these "last days" if you believe the "real truth" ( what the Bible actually says ) about the End Times Scenario...


I just don't understand why L Clarke thinks I'm slandering anyone??
Perhaps my other comments in this post will give you a clue...

:)
 
Feb 7, 2017
1,605
140
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#44
No Rapture! Not in the Bible. And no, not harpazio, either. Just a doctrine which makes no sense, because Jesus is only returning once, and not in secret. That is simply not in the Bible!
[FONT=&quot]I agree there will be no secret rapture:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Revelation 1.7)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nevertheless, the rapture will take place three and a half days after the first half of the seventieth week. And that's why people will want to fight against Jesus in person.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make [/FONT][FONT=&quot]war against him that sat on the horse[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and against his army.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Revelation 19.19)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#45
Hi Joan: I am so sorry, but if you look in the mirror you will see the false teacher. I do not understand folks like AHWA, I have watched him write many things that are true, however when it comes to the rapture of the church, he rejects the scriptures and invents a bible of his own so that it will say what pleases him. In matt 24, and Mark 13, Jesus taught a post-trib gathering of the church. Before Paul wrote the Thess letters where they claim the pre-trib rapture came from, the church believed in a post-trib rapture, because that was the ONLY RAPTURE given to them at that time. When Paul later joined the church he would have had to have been post-trib. So Paul described a post-trib rapture to the Thess. This is easy to see because Paul described the same rapture that Jesus described. Also Paul said that the rapture will not occur until after the Antichrist. Besides all that the tribulation Jesus described is not the wrath of God because it is a time of great persecution of Christians. Please check these things out and do not fall for the lies.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#46
I'm just going to jump right to the end here, so if somebody already said these things, sorry for redundancy. Most people have a very limited view about what is going to happen because they only reference the Bible when predicting the end times. First we need to understand that Lucifer or those who worship him have authority over many of the institutions of this world. They know what is coming and have been preparing. The Luciferians are trying to make a one world government, easy to control for when their god comes. First seal is describing the effort for domination. Second seal is those who oppose this effort will be killed and forced to conform. Once control is established whatever resources are left will be controlled by the authorities and can charge whatever they want. This leads to rebellion, starvation and total civil unrest. Fifth is the martyrs asking when the judgement takes place and given white robes and told to chill. Then comes the part we have all been waiting for.

This might be the biggest overlooked part of Revelation yet explains the problems everyone is having with comprehending it. Before anybody makes any hasty decisions to move on read this in full. Nibiru is this big conspiracy theory thing. Before you dismiss it, first read what happens when the sixth seal is broken and I will explain it. If a huge heavenly body comes close enough to earth, this is exactly what would take place. So much gravitational pull it would create a huge earthquake, smoke debris would fill the atmosphere, there would be a meteor shower (stars falling from heaven), and mountains and islands would move out of place as the mantle shifts. Here is the other part, the sky rolled back like a scroll, describes even the atmosphere being pulled. This is when the kings and the rulers retreat to the bunkers that they have built, into the sides of the mountains. It's no secret that there is something being prepared for by the elite.

Now this is a huge disaster that kills a great many of the population. In Matt 24 it states after this that the Son of Man will gather up His elect. These are the multitudes dressed in white robes (Rev 7:9). It is a global apocalypse, followed by Christ coming and collecting the church before Lucifer comes. After this the dragon, Lucifer comes to earth as a god, physically deceiving many. What happens next is a little less metaphorical than we might like to think. When it's the Antichrist, there won't be any wondering. What I picture isn't sci-fi, it's sci-lit(eratal). The 144000 will convert many and these will be the tribulation saints, that the beast makes war with.
 
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popeye

Guest
#47
I have posted these same words here before and will continue to do so each time I see the false Teachings of a Rapture. This will be Satan's message when he shows up. Don't be one who jumps in his wagon. The whole world has been setup for this. Be careful my friend.1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I would not have you to be ignorant brethren concerning them which are asleep that ye sorrow not even asothers which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died androse again even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring withhim.
The subject here in verse 13 refers to where the dead are. Verse 14 clearly tells us where they are. Theyare with the Father. Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of theLord shall not prevent them which are asleep. What we are being told here is that at the Lords return he will bring those that have diedin him with him. Simple to understand. Verse 16 doesn't read correctly it should read : For the Lord himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout with the voice of the Arch-Angel and with theTrump of God and the dead in Christ shall return with him. We already know where the dead are so no need to say shall rise first. Thiswritten the way it is leads people to believe they'll be popping outof holes in the ground. The Trump of God refers to the last Trump youfind in the book of Revelation. I have read here on this Forum that there are other Trumps other than those spoke of in Revelation. I asked for someone to tell me where but as expected I've never beengiven an answer. If you know please tell me. Verse 17 tells us whathappens at Christ's return. 1 Cor.15:52-53 Verse 18 is just simply telling us to not worry about where the Dead are as the subjectstarts out in Verse 13.
Nowhere in Gods word does it say Christwill return twice. If you are one of those who believe this your setting yourself up to be in Satan's wagon when he tells you hes hereto rapture you away. Be very careful my friend don't be misled. Do alittle study check out the word of God. Don't believe Me or any other Man check it out yourself.
Man,your doctrine is so sick and trashy.

You are saying that Jesus and Paul are satanically inspired.

Sick
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
#48
Besides all that the tribulation Jesus described is not the wrath of God because it is a time of great persecution of Christians.

And therein lies your error. The majority of the book of Revelation is given to the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. The time of persecution (trials and tribulation),which comes at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness, began at the on-set of the church and is still in operation. However, once the church is gathered, then the wrath of God will begin, which will cover that entire last seven years, with the last 3 1/2 years referred to by Jesus as the great tribulation. So, one of your on-going errors is not recognizing that there is a difference between the persecution that comes at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming wrath.

As long as you continue to not recognize this, and you continue to not recognize that the event of the gathering of the church as being a separate event from the Lord's return to end the age, your interpretation of end-time events will be in error.

By the way, Matt.24 is not referring to the church, but will involve Israel in fulfillment of the seventy 'sevens' that were decreed up them and their holy city (Dan.9:24-27) and the great tribulation saints, as well as the wicked (Dan.2:31-45, 7:25, Rev.7:9-17, 13:5-7). This can be deduced from the reference of the abomination being set up in the holy place within the temple and the desolation that takes place where the woman/Israel flees out into the wilderness where she is cared for 1260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years (Matt.24:15-22, Rev.12:6,14)
 
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Dec 21, 2012
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#49
Enow: you built a really big house but forget the foundation, stop beating the bush and just go to the roots. Paul joined a post trib church so he had to be post trib. Any scenario that fits pre-trib gathering is wrong simply because there is no pre-trib gathering...it is post trib.
There are 3 harvests that makes up the kingdom of heaven.

The pre trib rapture saints of O.T. saints & N.T. saints whom are the firstfruits to attend the Marriage Supper is the 1st harvest.

They that be Christ's at His coming; the left behind saints and new believers are of the 2nd harvest.

Then the last harvest when Satan is released from the pit of thos remianing loyal to Christ during that small season after the milleniel reign of Christ.

Then the Son will give back the kingdom to the Father after putting away hell and death and Satan and all unsaved to the lake of fire.

Matthew 13:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The smallest parable from Jesus supports this of what He goes into details at various times throughout the 4 gospels.
 
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popeye

Guest
#50
Hi Joan: I am so sorry, but if you look in the mirror you will see the false teacher. I do not understand folks like AHWA, I have watched him write many things that are true, however when it comes to the rapture of the church, he rejects the scriptures and invents a bible of his own so that it will say what pleases him. In matt 24, and Mark 13, Jesus taught a post-trib gathering of the church. Before Paul wrote the Thess letters where they claim the pre-trib rapture came from, the church believed in a post-trib rapture, because that was the ONLY RAPTURE given to them at that time. When Paul later joined the church he would have had to have been post-trib. So Paul described a post-trib rapture to the Thess. This is easy to see because Paul described the same rapture that Jesus described. Also Paul said that the rapture will not occur until after the Antichrist. Besides all that the tribulation Jesus described is not the wrath of God because it is a time of great persecution of Christians. Please check these things out and do not fall for the lies.
...are the dead raised first?.... In your postrib gathering?
 
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popeye

Guest
#51
Thank you Ahwatukee. No., I'm not in the least bit swayed from looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ. I'm fully persuaded for much of the same reasons you mentioned here in your post. It's a major confidence as God meant it to be for us to know He sent Jesus to take our punishment and the coming judgment as only He can. There is no more condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

Been through some things in my 58yrs that God has used to show the truth for us who received Jesus. That we passed from death unto life because of Christ. Rom.8:1 is very clear
:D None of us believers can allow another person to steal away our confidence in Christ. :)

It seems many Christians on CC don't believe in Christ coming to rapture His bride before the tribulation begins. So all the more reason for those of us who do to tell them when we get the chance. If they don't believe they will be missing out on a great and precious truth meant to hold us in these last days here on earth.

I just don't understand why L Clarke thinks I'm slandering anyone??
I can tell you right now it is a pretrib gathering.

The game changers are 1) the bride/ groom dimension 2) Jesus' words at the last supper 3) a gathering of God's people in rev 14 during the GT....not to mention lot,Noah,and the fact that the AC KILLS EVERY HUMANOID on the planet refusing the mark.

Now,any ONE of those makes their deal impossible,but JESUS himself told us to " pray that you be counted worthy to escape..."
 
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popeye

Guest
#52
There are 3 harvests that makes up the kingdom of heaven.

The pre trib rapture saints of O.T. saints & N.T. saints whom are the firstfruits to attend the Marriage Supper is the 1st harvest.

They that be Christ's at His coming; the left behind saints and new believers are of the 2nd harvest.

Then the last harvest when Satan is released from the pit of thos remianing loyal to Christ during that small season after the milleniel reign of Christ.

Then the Son will give back the kingdom to the Father after putting away hell and death and Satan and all unsaved to the lake of fire.

Matthew 13:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The smallest parable from Jesus supports this of what He goes into details at various times throughout the 4 gospels.
Actually 4.

In Leviticus.

First fruits
Main
Gleaners
Corners

Jesus,raised the patriarchs at his resurrection. That is first fruits.
 
Aug 25, 2016
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#53
Paul spoke Colloquial Greek look at Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a CLOUD of witnesses let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us and let us run with patience the race that is set before us. He uses the word CLOUD here in the same manner he used it in Thessalonians where people are led to the Rapture. He wasn't speaking of a cloud as many people interpret it to be. The word AIR he uses is meant to be in the Spirit.
 
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Nov 26, 2012
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#54
Everybody is still ignoring the global devastion which follows the horsemen and precedes the seven years. Christ comes back before the trumpets to collect the surviving church. This is where one is taken and one is left, from Matt 24. Then He is on Mount Zion with the 144000 reaping the "earth's harvest" where the blood was up to a horse's bridal. After this are the bowls of wrath. Finally He is again at the great battle where the beast is defeated. It looks more like a military campaign to me. This is what the Bible describes without preconceived notions. Christ returns at the global devastation which starts the count down but claims victory seven years later.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#55
Hey Popeye, I read the post of buddyt and your comments, he said absolutely nothing that is not in the bible yet you accuse the man of having a sick and trashy post and you also accuse him of saying that Jesus and Paul are satanically inspired, something he did not do. I think when you signed off as Sick you pretty well described where you are coming from.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#56
May the Lord remind every one in how to serve Him in replying in this thread....

Galatians 5:[SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Romans 12:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.[SUP]17 [/SUP]Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.[SUP]18 [/SUP]If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Address the topic and not the poster, directly or even indirectly, please. May God cause the increase as He ministers.
 
M

MattTooFor

Guest
#57
Please provide the scripture(s) that say that the tribulation, the wrath of God, comes before the gathering of the church?
Matthew 24. First comes the abomination, then the great tribulation, then the cosmic signs, then the rapture (the "gathering"), then after the cosmic signs and the "gathering" there follows the "wrath ofGod.

I notice, once again, you're trying to slip in your doctrines as foregone conclusions when, without further ado, you equate the 70th Week of Daniel with the wrath of God. Come on now, guy.
 
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popeye

Guest
#58
Hey Popeye, I read the post of buddyt and your comments, he said absolutely nothing that is not in the bible yet you accuse the man of having a sick and trashy post and you also accuse him of saying that Jesus and Paul are satanically inspired, something he did not do. I think when you signed off as Sick you pretty well described where you are coming from.
Satanic?

That is sick friend,i don't care who says it. It is sick.

But it was Jesus that said,at the last supper, we would be with him in heaven,and Paul that said we would rise and meet Jesus in the air. We may disagree as to when,does that make either one satanic??????

But,to top it off,it is you guys that have no provision in your doctrine for the marriage supper,or those left behind,or the bema seat,all of which happen in heaven.....and we,who are right down the middle,bullseye in doctrine are the satanists,huh?
 
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popeye

Guest
#59
Paul spoke Colloquial Greek look at Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a CLOUD of witnesses let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us and let us run with patience the race that is set before us. He uses the word CLOUD here in the same manner he used it in Thessalonians where people are led to the Rapture. He wasn't speaking of a cloud as many people interpret it to be. The word AIR he uses is meant to be in the Spirit.
Oh,of course.

Only us misguided ones would have thought that air meant air,and clouds meant clouds.
 
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popeye

Guest
#60
Originally Posted by samuel23

Hi Joan: I am so sorry, but if you look in the mirror you will see the false teacher. I do not understand folks like AHWA, I have watched him write many things that are true, however when it comes to the rapture of the church, he rejects the scriptures and invents a bible of his own so that it will say what pleases him. In matt 24, and Mark 13, Jesus taught a post-trib gathering of the church. Before Paul wrote the Thess letters where they claim the pre-trib rapture came from, the church believed in a post-trib rapture, because that was the ONLY RAPTURE given to them at that time. When Paul later joined the church he would have had to have been post-trib. So Paul described a post-trib rapture to the Thess. This is easy to see because Paul described the same rapture that Jesus described. Also Paul said that the rapture will not occur until after the Antichrist. Besides all that the tribulation Jesus described is not the wrath of God because it is a time of great persecution of Christians. Please check these things out and do not fall for the lies.


...are the dead raised first?.... In your postrib gathering?

Again,in your postrib rapture model,do the dead rise first ,before the living are caught up?????

Such an easy question for a bible expert such as yourself.