Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[Sirk]

Sirk - It breaks my heart to hear you speak like this. Walking in openness and honesty,
in love and truth is not a standard, or a rule book, it is being who you are.

If you get cut you bleed, if you are sad you cry, if you are happy you laugh.

You talk as if I am saying be something you are not, pretend to be in the Kingdom,
when I am saying, believe Christ and obey. And through obedience you will change,
you will sow and reap a new person. Now if you do not believe this, then nothing
will change and it will appear to you to be true.

And there is the irony. You become in Jesus what you believe.
Hunger and thirst for righteousness and you will be filled.
Purify your hearts and you will be pure.
See God and you will know wisdom and freedom.
Forgive and you will be forgiven.

Ask the Lord to help and He will make it possible.
Do everything in your own strength and fail, commune with
Christ and walk together and you will succeed.

Dude...you're still speaking in religious Christianese. Do you ever just talk like a normal human being? I've heard all this you say thousands of times from people I've seen stumble and fall countless times. You're a unicorn and I don't believe in unicorns....cuz unicorns don't exist.

I dub thee bubble boy.

 

[dcontroversal]

cheap shots and cheap lies wont wash with me i dont think nothing of the sort and dc likeing an outright lie just spells your false doctrins out..

Do they sell nappies and binkies in jolly old England HAHA just because I like a post does not necessarily mean I agree with everything said.......and for the record on the other statement....UMMM England never did beat the U.S.....if you did we would be England WEST....just because your tea drinking, biscuit eating red coats burned the White House does not mean you beat the U.S.

 

[dcontroversal]

Dude...you're still speaking in religious Christianese. Do you ever just talk like a normal human being? I've heard all this you say thousands of times from people I've seen stumble and fall countless times. You're a unicorn and I don't believe in unicorns....cuz unicorns don't exist.

I dub thee bubble boy.

HAHAHHAHAHAA bubble boyeeeee HAHAHA We are having comedy night at the CC HOUSE tonight............ALL jokes aside....JESUS LOVESSSSS SINNERS>....HE DIED for them

 

[PeterJens]

Dude...you're still speaking in religious Christianese. Do you ever just talk like a normal human being? I've heard all this you say thousands of times from people I've seen stumble and fall countless times. You're a unicorn and I don't believe in unicorns....cuz unicorns don't exist.

Do you know the bible and normal christian terms?
Maybe you no longer believe any of it?

To hunger and thirst for rightousness, is to know the right things to do
is a given situation, rather than standing blankly and wondering what do I do next.

Purify your hearts, is thinking how you can love people, encourage, support and
meet their needs, bring joy and support to them. It is not lusting after sex, wealth,
possessions, glory etc. It is putting your heart into seeing people as they are,
empathising and listening, and waiting till you heart shows you how to reach
them.

When you find purity, you will start to see God and why he does what He does.
If you have never grasped innocense or beauty of the soul, maybe this is far
from you.

Forgiving people is a simple idea. You do not count the hurts or loss against
someone, you allow Christ to heal you and work through why it hurt and
damaged you. Emotional hurts work out if you let them speak and then
let them go.

Is this enough for you, or do you need more?

 

[Sirk]

I consider myself to be a pretty patient kind father. And I have a really great kid so it makes it pretty easy.

Well these last couple weeks have been trying to say the least. Don't need to go into detail about all that......anyway, this weekend I needed to build a pinewood derby car on pretty short notice. I cut my finger pretty good doing it late friday night....and I'm a guitar player so that was a bummer. So sunday we race, car is slow, boy cries and gets all upset that his car didn't win. Dad didn't get so much as a thank you....not to mention that dad had to nag kid to even help. Dad was pissed....he felt pretty small that he didn't build his kid a winning car and he also felt pretty disregarded seeing how he really did try pretty hard and kid displayed such poor sportsmanship and gratitude about the whole thing.

The point is that I sinned against my kid, Instead of patiently working thru it, I lashed out at him for being so disrespectful. No, I didn't yell or hit. But I said in anger, "I'm sorry I'm such a failure as father". The long and the short of it is that I apologized to him, he apologized to me, we reconnected and we both grew in our relationship. Now, if you actually live in the real world with different personalities and people around you, rubbing up against your "humanness" and pissing you off from time to time....you sin. And if you say you don't, the bible calls you a liar.

I don't believe anyone who says they don't sin against others from time to time. And I never will. So all of this....if you just walk in the light as He is the light christianese horse crap that bubble boy runs his mouth about post after post is nothing more than a clanging cymbal to me.
And why is it a clanging cymbal, cuz I've seen it before, every single time, the ones running their yaps like this, are the ones behind closed doors cheating on their wives, stealing, coveting, lying and on and on and on.

 

[wsblind]

We do live in a world of feminized males. And not men.

New American Standard Bible
A constant dripping on a day of steady rain And a contentious woman are alike;

 

[PeterJens]

And why is it a clanging cymbal, cuz I've seen it before, every single time, the ones running their yaps like this, are the ones behind closed doors cheating on their wives, stealing, coveting, lying and on and on and on.

Ok you are a cynic about purity.
Why not just be open about where you are, and encourage as you have the process of
resolution, which I whole heartedly agree with.

Today I did a transportation of a massive hardboard art piece to college, and I was the
person who was failing, until I delivered and the Lord worked things out.
It was touch and go about getting angry, and certainly my daughter was not a happy person.
Except she lost her reason to moan and everything worked out. It helped teach me to walk
consistently and not let others fears or worries change my faith and expectation in the Lord.

Now I do fail, but I am learning to know the ways of Christ.
And many followers are much better than me, and walk closer and better than I do.
Some fail terribly and have no real commitment, but it does not deny the victory I
see in Christ and in His word.

Sirk, you even resolved the situation, which is a great step forward. It is how we move
forward for where we are that matters not where we are. If we do not move forward,
how we claim to know anything about Jesus or His ways?

 

[Utah]

The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:5

Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Tim 2:22

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
Titus 1:15

Thank you for your honesty.
You are repulsed at me quoting Paul.

You have to be very careful that you have not just become jaded.
If you no longer believe people can be cleansed and walk in purity, then surely
what Christ promises us is futile.

The whole principles of the temple were about purity and defilement.
That which is holy could be brought into His presence.

In Christ we have been purified. But the language you are saying is
Christ has not purified us at all, we are still hypocritical failed creatures.

In all honesty that is just unbelief. You do not know my purity or lack of
it, only what you project. And once you project evil onto another without
evidence that is judgementalism.

So it appears gb9, EG, Utah, wsblind also walk in unbelief.

And is your sense of impurity related to one particular sort of impurity or just in
general? It is easy to always be self condemning, which I suspect most people
are doing, unless this impurity is real spiritual lostness and habitual sin.

What I know is it is always easier to dismiss oneself from a difficult task, if you
fail by one issue or all the issues you fail.

I can project one thing -- you're out of your $&@"! mind. My faith in Jesus is concrete. I'm a captain who will go down with the ship while you're a first class, elitist passenger thinking you're better than everyone.

I prayed today asking God for blessings, to His happiness and glory. I served Communion to dementia patients in a nursing home. I held hands with an ill women and prayed for her while smiling tenderly, giving her peace and courage.

God answered my prayers, for He was glorified, but not because of anything I did, I just acknowledge it all. WTH did you do today, punk, besides beat your self righteous chest?

 

[Sirk]

Ok you are a cynic about purity.
Why not just be open about where you are, and encourage as you have the process of
resolution, which I whole heartedly agree with.

Today I did a transportation of a massive hardboard art piece to college, and I was the
person who was failing, until I delivered and the Lord worked things out.
It was touch and go about getting angry, and certainly my daughter was not a happy person.
Except she lost her reason to moan and everything worked out. It helped teach me to walk
consistently and not let others fears or worries change my faith and expectation in the Lord.

Now I do fail, but I am learning to know the ways of Christ.
And many followers are much better than me, and walk closer and better than I do.
Some fail terribly and have no real commitment, but it does not deny the victory I
see in Christ and in His word.

Sirk, you even resolved the situation, which is a great step forward. It is how we move
forward for where we are that matters not where we are. If we do not move forward,
how we claim to know anything about Jesus or His ways?

no pain no gain. Even Paul equated our spiritual muscles with our physical ones. You don't build big biceps without tearing them first. And I'm not a cynic. I just know people. One of the most pure guys I know talks often about being inoffendable. Yet he is the easiest to offend. You know not how deep the well of your unrighteousness goes. No man does. Good thing you got Jesus. You'd be screwed if you didn't.

 

[dcontroversal]

no pain no gain. Even Paul equated our spiritual muscles with our physical ones. You don't build big biceps without tearing them first. And I'm not a cynic. I just know people. One of the most pure guys I know talks often about being inoffendable. Yet he is the easiest to offend. You know not how deep the well of your unrighteousness goes. No man does. Good thing you got Jesus. You'd be screwed if you didn't.

ALL I know is JESUS was highly impressed with those who came to him abased and stating their unworthiness to even be in his presence and or like a dog seeking the crumbs that fell from HIS table......

The reason we have no right to brag or boast is because any righteousness we have in our life, any "good" we have partaken of etc...IS ALL JESUS through us as a living sacrifice.....

We are sinners saved by grace and we are commanded to not think of ourselves ore highly than we should.....

Any person that is puffed up boasting of their holiness and righteousness is a modern Pharisee....the Pharisees were frauds and fakes.......

Only after they acknowledged JESUS (Nicodemus) were they worthy of the kingdom.......and that worthiness was because JESUS was now in them dia the word...!

 

[BillG]

Again, the word Hope in the N.T. means an assurance of something guaranteed.....it is not the hope that is being peddled by some here. The hope they are peddling I like one who buys a lottery ticket and they HOPE they win....

We are saved the micro second we believed
We are saved right now
We are continuing to be saved into the future

A present continuing result from a past completed action........<---this is what the bible teaches by verb tense!

Yeh I know that now, didn't back then though.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

When you've already been saved, you don't need to hope for salvation. You already have it so hoping for it would be kind of silly. As far as hoping that myself and others are saved from temptation, well isn't that what PRAYER is for??

[FONT=&quot]Beloved sister Blue_Ladybug, we aren’t saved.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“But as many as received him, he gave them power [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to be made [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](John 1.12 – Douay-Rheims)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We aren’t sons of God. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Instead, we are being made sons of God. Our salvation need to be developed:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]work out your own salvation with fear and trembling[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Philippians 2.12,13)[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i missed nothing. I just know real life. It's pressures and stresses and people. I know that some days are a struggle. Some days are a breeze. We get tired and hungry. We're human and we fail.

You set standards even you can't live up to yet expect others too.

The jist of legalism, But we are not the only ones who had to deal.. The jews had to be scolded for trying to put people under the burden of the law even their fathers could not carry.. Satan uses the same lies and tricks he has used since the begining, sadly, we human never figure them out, we still fall for them.

 

[Utah]

When you've already been saved, you don't need to hope for salvation. You already have it so hoping for it would be kind of silly. As far as hoping that myself and others are saved from temptation, well isn't that what PRAYER is for??

Beloved sister Blue_Ladybug, we aren’t saved.

· “But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.” (John 1.12 – Douay-Rheims).

We aren’t sons of God. Instead, we are being made sons of God. Our salvation need to be developed:

· “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2.12,13).

Oh for crying out loud!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Beloved sister Blue_Ladybug, we aren’t saved.

· “But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.” (John 1.12 – Douay-Rheims).

Titus 3: 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy HE SAVED US (done deal)

Romans 8:24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? (done deal)

Ephesians 2:5, 8-9 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), For by Grace YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED by faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest anyone should boast. (again done deal)

We aren’t sons of God. Instead, we are being made sons of God. Our salvation need to be developed:

Galatians 3:26
[ Sons and Heirs ] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

· “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2.12,13).

Work out your own salvation, It is yours, You have it, You have possession of it, YOU ARE SAVED.

Now work out what you have.

I find it amazing, the very verse you said proves we are not saved yet, proves we ARE SAVED. Those who are not yet saved, can not work out their salvation, they have to have it first.

 

[Stephen63]

We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

a. Believe they can lose salvation
b. Believe they must do good to keep it
c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

Daniel was a righteous saved child of God....anyone doubt that? NO
John was a righteous mas whom Jesus loved and an apostle...anyone doubt that? NO
Paul was a righteous man who was saved and wrote almost half the N.T...anyone doubt that? NO

Notice their view under inspiration.

For those who say the saved don't sin......or won't sin.......or are without sin......!

DANIEL
Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,

And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

JOHN
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

PAUL
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

The only man who was sinless 100% was Jesus...even the most faithful men and women of the bible failed and had sin that they struggled with....the above re all present tense...NOT PAST TENSE......!

For those who say that we advocate a wicked sinful lifestyle because we acknowledge these scriptures.....this is false, misleading and border line lying.........!

I read of ONE person two-three months ago who claimed to be sinless, & I think he's now banned.

Can you name some of these threads that claim such things? I want to look them over.

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

a. Believe they can lose salvation
b. Believe they must do good to keep it
c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

I'm also curious why you added these three descriptions, when none of these match the Op at all.

For instance, most, if not all, of the people who believe any of the above don't believe we are sinless.

What we do believe is that sinlessness is the goal.

We do believe according to Ephesians we're created to good works, as God has said.

It seems to me this is a fabrication to blame & paint a whole group as sinless perfectionists. I guess the legalist story didn't work, so now you're trying this.

To fabricate a story is a sin of lying & deception.

This is sad.....

What's sadder, is this wickedness goes on every day under the admin's noses.

And they wonder why people don't stay.

1Peter 4:14If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.15Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome meddler; 16but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name. 17For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER? 19Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.

Lord, judge & fight for your righteous, & defend Your little ones in Jesus' name, amen.

 

[Grace777x70]

I absolutely love that scripture in 1 Peter 4!

The scripture in 1 Peter 4 about judgment in the house of God must come first is a beautiful promise of the sealing of God's people off before judgment comes to the world.

1 Peter 4:17-18 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

[SUP]18 [/SUP] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Peter was the apostle to the Hebrews and Peter being a good Jewish man would have heard this spoken off in the OT.

It is a hebraism ( expression ) from Ezekiel 9:4-6 in which they had set aside the jewish elders and marked them before judgment came..these ones were saved from the judgment.

In other words we get protected/marked by the Spirit of God before judgment comes ..but judgment starts at the house of God first by us being "marked"...that's the sign that judgment is coming to the ungodly as 1 Peter 4:17-18 says.

Those "who do not obey the gospel" are those that reject Christ's work on the cross and resurrection.

1 Peter 4 is an awesome promise of being safe and secure in Christ!! it's a beautiful picture of us being sealed by the Holy Spirit.

We have a good, good Father! and a mighty salvation in Jesus our Lord!

 

[Utah]

I'm also curious why you added these three descriptions, when none of these match the Op at all.

For instance, most, if not all, of the people who believe any of the above don't believe we are sinless.

What we do believe is that sinlessness is the goal.

We do believe according to Ephesians we're created to good works, as God has said.

It seems to me this is a fabrication to blame & paint a whole group as sinless perfectionists. I guess the legalist story didn't work, so now you're trying this.

To fabricate a story is a sin of lying & deception.

This is sad.....

What's sadder, is this wickedness goes on every day under the admin's noses.

And they wonder why people don't stay.

1Peter 4:14If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.15Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome meddler; 16but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name. 17For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER? 19Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.

Lord, judge & fight for your righteous, & defend Your little ones in Jesus' name, amen.

You're still here spreading your hate so what's your point?

 

[JIMBO43]

What cheap lies? YOU are the one saying your hoping for eternal life. Jesus Christ IS eternal life.

If you don't have eternal life, real life eternal life right now............Christ is not real to you yet.

And that's compassion buddy. Get saved. Get eternal life. Because Christ is eternal life.

Chist has eternal life Because hes God..
We have eternal life because we have a soul..
Reguardless of where your eternal life may be is a choice of your own... if you keeep the faith untill the end you will spend your eternal life in his kingdom..

If you dont keep the faith to the end then you have an advocate with the father who may put you in prison for a bit or for a while,, or for eternity..

Now correct me if im wrong but if your salvation redemption eternal life with God) is allready declared then that means youve recieved your glorified body too ... tell me is that glorified body a face lift or angelic or something else.. ?