Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

JIMBO43 · Mar 15, 2017

Ok i see ecourament here which is Good and a quick turn around to show your encourament.. but it seems that some are slow to show theres and answer staright away..

Now you may call that faith with out pure belief,,,, because from where im standing you should ware your faith like you where a cloak it should be a part of you and something you stand up for..

Now if one can not answer simple questions about there faith then do they really understand there faith and what its all about ?

Now if i have a faitht that is to never give up hope surely i can answer that faith staright away with any question that is asked of me.. surely i will not deflect from my truth of my faith..

So a question could you be sinlless and switch of and say at this moment i am a perfectionist,,,(come on please give some perfection credit lol)

PeterJens · Mar 15, 2017

The realist

All sinners are sinners, so you can guarantee they can sin and do sin.
Big news. Jesus came to tell people they were sinners and though they
still sin, they are home free into heaven, a place they literally will hate,
because they have the get out of hell free card.

Only drawback is they hate the people of the Kingdom, cannot stand purity,
love, reality, humblness, meekness, self control, mourning, peace making,
being poor in spirit, desiring to do the right thing.

So maybe the card has actually been read wrongly.

Now Jesus is saying what makes the nature of His people and His kingdom.
The shock is His kingdom is not glitzy, successful, showy, full of glamour and
lots of add ons, just loving people, helping one another, in a serving way, with
no heros, just people who take the pain and return love and acceptance.

I got this vision, when people see Christ, they will reject Him and not know why
He is the king, and be totally destroyed and lost. It is this man, my Lord I met when
I heard Jesus talking to the woman caught in adultery. It was the fact He understood
everyone, and resolved the conflict but not the eternal destinations.

JIMBO43 · Mar 15, 2017

dcontroversal said:

I dont even know what you mean by verb tense lol... is this the oxford dictionary of salvation again ha

BillG · Mar 15, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Could the focus on not striving to sin detract from he who is perfect?
If we focus an being perfect then we lose focus on he who is perfect.

Sometimes I think we can have a mindset that if we are not perfect like Jesus then we have failed. Which can add to the to strive to be perfect.

I don't think Jesus ever expected us to be perfect. If so he could have just come to earth and say "Be perfect"
He died to restore the relationship with God that Adam and Eve had.

He said "I must go back to the Father so the Holy Spirit must come to reveal he who is perfect and place your faith in him"

There is nothing wrong with striving to be like Jesus, that's what he asked us to be like.
But to me when we place our perfection on a par with his then we have lost the focus.

That focus is what Jesus did on the cross

MadebyHim · Mar 15, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Was never pointing finger at you, or any body. But some people know the word pretty well like yourself. Calling people that preach stop sinning, lying do-gooders is not a good witness. Same as other side saying, people must do this or that. That is both sides trying to be God, instead of planting the seed, and letting God water it, and once in a while we fertilize it, with some Word.

JIMBO43 · Mar 15, 2017

BillG said:

mate we have to aknonoledge are faults first befor we can perfect them and we have to want to change to make that change..

But why not ? i mean why cant we be a holy guy or a linford christie... or a kenny daglish or a well toned athlete or a seargent major..... why cant we strive to be professionals true embasserders for the renewal of peace on earth.. if we have a goal to strive for peace and see that jeolousy is one of our faults,,, we can learn to not be jelouse and accepts someone elses jelosy..

We can learn that vanity is only a reflection of our body and not our spirit... so we could end up just having a quick look in the mirror rather than an endless one..

Pride we could learn that somebody else would like to finish first for a change and give them the good leads...

Greed we could learn that the begger hasnt eaten tonight and give him half of yours.....

So its not impossible to become perfect at least for one day,,, which the lord loves like the sabbath day... which he likes you to keep holy...

And this is where i stand If the lord reconises we cant be holy seven days a week why does he only ask for one ?

peacefulbeliever · Mar 15, 2017

MadebyHim said:

#1 that verse is to those who are trying to gain their righteousness by the law, i.e. the WHOLE law, 613 statutes.
#2 In context: "But you have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by which you are called. Thou shalt love your neighbor as yourself, you do well: But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin If you fulfil the royal law according to the scripture , and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the WHOLE law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
#3 On two commandments hang the law and the prophets - You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. When you do these two commandments - you are keeping the law but if you fail in one . . . you have failed in all, i.e. when you are loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, you will be loving others . . . if you hurt anyone in anyway - you have offended in one point and therefore guilty of all. I know at times I have had "respect of persons" . . . haven't you?
#4 Now tell me . . . WHO beside Jesus Christ has not failed in one area?
#5 Should we encourage people not to sin? Sure . . . Do I encourage a person by saying that "I am perfect. I don't sin." or saying "I know what you mean, sometimes I have trouble in that area too but we can and should strive to be better".
#6 I don't believe anyone condones sin.

dcontroversal · Mar 15, 2017

PeterJens said:

What is sad is believers tearing apart other believers not about sin, but about
walking in love, and whether this is possible.

It is like a bunch of agnostics debating the theory of not being an alcoholic.
Everyone is an addict so no one can kick the habit, and anyone who believes they
can or have is a liar, because we know so.

Getting into life, eternal life is about walking in faith and believing Christ. If people
cannot even believe Christ about their own behaviour and the possibility He can change
them, how on earth is Christ going to give them resurrection. People in this state would
rather stay in the world and be counted as sinners than walk as saints.

It is all masked with the fear of death and ultimate judgement, so they dare not face that
without the get out of jail free card, "I had faith", look at all the prophecies I gave...

MAYBE, you forgot what this thread was about..........

dcontroversal · Mar 15, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Google verb tense bro as applied unto the INSPIRED GREEK N.T. and be enlightened migo....

blue_ladybug · Mar 15, 2017

I could lie and say I am sinless, and go further and also say I am a sinless perfectionist.. But that would be a LIE.. The TRUTH is, that I am a dirty rotten sinner, who sins almost daily, and will NEVER achieve perfection on this side of heaven. So sorry, but I can't give perfection any credit..

I know many here think that once you're saved, that you become sinless. That just ain't so. One trip to the Family forum and the plethora of porn, adultery, divorce, etc. threads bears proof of that. CHRISTIANS SIN. That's a fact. An ugly fact, but a fact nonetheless.

JIMBO43 said:

BillG · Mar 15, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Yes we do and should do. Acknowledge our faults and want change in them.

Maybe we have faults that we didn't realise we had. The Holy Spirit then comes and reveals them to us. I've had that a few times when seeking God.

I want to be as perfect as Jesus is. Truth is for me when I chased that and failed I feel like a piece of crap. Maybe that's a grace issue for me.

As for being perfect for one day, I am not sure it's achievable. I know this for me from my own heart.
What does perfection mean to you?
What day is your sabbath?

Can an You be Holy as he is Holy on the sabbath day? Can you honestly say to me that you have been perfect for one day in your life?

That is why I say that we can't be perfect for one day because we have faults that we don't know about then one day the Holy Spirit says "Time to deal with this"

JIMBO43 · Mar 15, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Google is a gate way to hell lol ill just imagine that verb means verbal lol

dcontroversal · Mar 15, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

What is the perfect tense in Greek?

The Perfect Tense indicates ongoing result. If you remember that the meaning of the word perfect is complete, then you can remember that the perfect tense has to do with completed action. But the perfect tense is a primary tense because it emphasizes the present, or ongoing result of a completed action.
What is the meaning of the aorist tense?

a verb tense, as in Classical Greek, expressing action or, in the indicative mood, past action, without further limitation or implication. adjective. 2. of or in this tense. Origin of aorist Expand.

The Imperative Active. 400. The imperative is used to express a command, exhortation, or an entreaty. The tenses occurring in the imperative are the present, aorist, and perfect, but only a few perfect active forms occur, and these are rare. For the distinction of time between the present and aorist,

ETC.........EVERY verb in the N.T. GREEK has an INSPIRED TENSE bro.........if this is ignored it will lead to faulty conclusions.....

JIMBO43 · Mar 15, 2017

BillG said:

well when youve lost several thousand times you learn to accept that you can fail... maybe you havent lossed long enough to learn to live with failure...

I guess you could say that learning to deal with failure is something we have to hold are hands up to,, but the reality is that true sportman ship does happen where two footballers will hold there hands up when being booked..

And then they will never do that mistake again..

Now on the flip side many footballers will never admit the truth and happily pay the fine because there rich anyway..
Some of the hardest men i know have acted like wimps lol.... the reality is that that you dont have to show your hard to prove your hard.. where as some do its the same for being like Jesus you dont have to show your good to him to prove your Good because he knows your motives and he he knows you may slip up... but if he knows your trying to be like him then that to me is enough...its not sinless perfection its reality...

BillG · Mar 15, 2017

blue_ladybug said:

Your a dirty rotten sinner who sins daily.

Im going to have to defriend you I'm afraid.

Serioulsy though when we have become saved I think God sees us as sinless, even though we are not.
We are his kids, just like Jesus his son.

Jesus was sinless and perfect and he credits what Jesus has done to his other kids.
Those who have placed their faith in what Jesus has done.

Its the perfection of Jesus that counts and our belief in it.

Good point made on the family forum.

Lets everyone who has posted on this post go take a look.
If you do so and you heart is not moved with compassion to love and accept where they are then maybe it's time to question your heart.

oldethennew · Mar 15, 2017

many things have been said in this 'thread' that should never have been uttered -
many feelings and emotions have been expressed that should have been kept in check
and mastered...much prayer is needed here along with forgiving hearts and
Christian Love and understanding...

Christ made Himself plainly understood and corrected in Love always, as our Example -
never did He defend Himself to any man, confront in Love, yes, defend, no...
He didn't have to defend Himself, because God was His Judge and not a man...

JIMBO43 · Mar 15, 2017

dcontroversal said:

What is the perfect tense in Greek?

The Perfect Tense indicates ongoing result. If you remember that the meaning of the word perfect is complete, then you can remember that the perfect tense has to do with completed action. But the perfect tense is a primary tense because it emphasizes the present, or ongoing result of a completed action.
What is the meaning of the aorist tense?

a verb tense, as in Classical Greek, expressing action or, in the indicative mood, past action, without further limitation or implication. adjective. 2. of or in this tense. Origin of aorist Expand.

The Imperative Active. 400. The imperative is used to express a command, exhortation, or an entreaty. The tenses occurring in the imperative are the present, aorist, and perfect, but only a few perfect active forms occur, and these are rare. For the distinction of time between the present and aorist,

ETC.........EVERY verb in the N.T. GREEK has an INSPIRED TENSE bro.........if this is ignored it will lead to faulty conclusions.....

Mate theres millions of meanings to words... i wouldnt put every word in the bible into a noun or a verb. abjective... i would go stark raving mad...

ILL just leave all that jazz alone ive got enough inside my brain allready and i dont want it to swell like a teafel

PeterJens · Mar 15, 2017

dcontroversal said:

It is an interesting point.
When people are close enough to agree the basics, yet far enough apart to see things
slightly differently following a chain of thought makes some sense.

My approach is simple, I share as I feel led, as my heart gives me utterance.

The theme is do believers sin. And the answer is obviously yes.
The question is how is it resolved and why?

It is like saying do toddlers fall over while learning to walk.
The answer is always yes else they never learn.

But interestingly some hold the true born again part of a believer
never sins, only the flesh. Not seen that version expressed here, but maybe
they have decided to take a holiday. lol.

BillG · Mar 15, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

I can assure you that I know my failings. I walk with them every day and I hate them with a passion.
I resolve every day not to fail.

Your quote about footballers is not fully true. They will still get a yellow card. Whether they actually did something to warrant it or not. Having played a fairly high level of football I know the tricks of the trade as such.

Whilst talking about football how many yellow cards does God give before you get the red card?

I do get what you are saying trying to be like him is not sinnles perfection and it's reality.
I want to be like him and that's my reality, but sometimes I feel, others say "You've has too many yellow cards now here is the red and your no longer part of the game"

In football when you get a red card you suffer punishment but after that your free to rejoin the game.
If God shows the red card it's a form a him chastising us in order to teach us and bring us back into the game.

dcontroversal · Mar 15, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

EVERY verb in the N.T. GREEK has an INSPIRED TENSE bro.........if this is ignored it will lead to faulty conclusions.....

Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

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