Would a human clone have a soul?

[blue_ladybug]

But the clones are implanted with the original's memories and life experiences, sooooo...

They develop, grow, and live in a completely different time and environment, so their life's experiences and outlook would be quite different.

 

[ROSSELLA]

Would a human clone have a soul?

Dolly the sheep made the news over 20 years ago. I think it is very likely that humans have been cloned by now. Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not some sort of conspiracy nut. I just think that human cloning would be such an incredibly lucrative--albeit unethical--activity that some gov't or well heeled private organization somewhere has secretly been working on this. Granted, humans are *much* more difficult to clone than, say, sheep or cats or mice. But two decades is a long time to solve even the most difficult of problems. So I'm guess that somewhere in an out-of-the-way laboratory, there is a living human clone. Does he or she have a soul?

Only God can know that. However, I know God is a just and merciful God. He's perfectly capable of giving anyone and thing a soul if He desires to. And I don't think He would hold it against the cloned person for being created in a lab instead of being born in the traditional way. After all, the cloned person wouldn't have chosen to be born/made, and he/she couldn't exist unless God allowed it to happen. That being said, God doesn't owe anyone, natural born human or clone, anything, and God knows things humans don't. It's possible He sees things differently. However, until we die and go to Heaven and hear the answer from God Himself, we should treat any human clones like other humans and assume they have souls. To treat them as inferior or assume they don't have souls when there is no Biblical answer would be unloving and cruel.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Seoul, cloning already IS part of our society. The government's been cloning humans since at least the 1960's.. All the major celebs and government officials are clones. Sounds nutty but it's true, IMO.. And haven't you ever noticed that the clones don't have black pupils? Their pupils are the same color as their irises. And the shape of the teeth are different, as is the eye color. With today's technology, anything is possible. They even have robots that look fully human..

 

[Magenta]

This reminds me of a movie... I'm thinking it was "The Island"? (Sorry... I'm quite fascinated by this subject and have watched several films with clones as part of the story line.)

In the film I'm thinking of, wealthy patrons paid a corporation to raise clones of themselves in order to replace whatever they might need in the future. Some things were obvious--a heart transplant, or lungs that had been ravaged by cancer.

But what about a model who is in an accident, or her skin just isn't as smooth as it used to be? Forget a facelift. She had the corporation produce a clone for her so that she could have completely new, youthfully dewy skin.

I could be confusing movies, but I remember in one, a wealthy infertile couple (the wife could not produce a child on her own) had the wife cloned, and the clone was able to produce a child from their own genetic material, all within a lab.

The couple was told that the clones remained in vegetative states and never came to awareness or consciousness.

But in reality, the scientists found that without a full human interaction and experience, the clones failed to develop, and anything they produced was unusable. So, this couple fully believed that the wife's clone was raised in a state of complete unconsciousness, and yet was able to produce their child.

In reality, the wife's clone had to be raised in a controlled lab that replicated the human experience (including regular socialization with other clones and the scientists) so that she could grow as a complete human being. They impregnated her, allowed her to carry to full gestation, then aided her in giving birth--and killed her immediately after the baby was born.

The most heartbreaking scene is that this exhausted young woman eagerly asked the nurse if she could hold her baby, and the nurse shook her head no. The young woman's IV's were filled with lethal substances, and she died nearly immediately after that, while watching a nurse hold on to her baby. She was never allowed to even touch her own child.

To me, the case of a cloned human being is a lot like an unborn child.

If people believe a clone is just a mass of cells and not a true human being with no soul, it'll be easy for them to raise, harvest, and subsequently murder the clones after they've taken what they want (just like other animals.)

I personally do not believe God would agree with this, but that's just me. I just hope they get the ethical issues squared away BEFORE cloning become the norm in our society.

Yes. The Island was a movie that came to mind as I was reading your previous post to this one... I like that sort of movie also Although I cannot place/remember the birthing scene you mention, the island's premise that human organ tissues could not survive with out a life purpose provided by the conscious experience of living was somewhat reminiscent of the Matrix movie, in that the clones were completely unaware of their true purpose for living. The narrative they had been given for their isolation was completely fabricated... oh, and those poor saps who won the lottery! Your time for organ harvesting has come, it is curtains for you A great movie cast always helps also

[video=youtube;_ZyNJ3cKfEg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZyNJ3cKfEg[/video]

 

[Magenta]

But the clones are implanted with the original's memories and life experiences, sooooo...

No, Blue, memories are life specific and non transferable

 

[seoulsearch]

Seoul, cloning already IS part of our society. The government's been cloning humans since at least the 1960's.. All the major celebs and government officials are clones. Sounds nutty but it's true, IMO.. And haven't you ever noticed that the clones don't have black pupils? Their pupils are the same color as their irises. And the shape of the teeth are different, as is the eye color. With today's technology, anything is possible. They even have robots that look fully human..

You must get out a whole lot more than I do, Blue.

I only work with the general public. I have not yet encountered anyone whom I believed was a clone or a robot, though I agree it could be possible.

Robots are another ethical area I find fascinating, such as the series West World. In the series, using robots to fulfill the basest of human desires is seen as acceptable... as long as the robots are just mindless machines (and you do everything possible, even if it's unethical, to keep them that way, because, after all, they're EXPENSIVE!)

But if the robots become conscious of their own existence and of what's being done to them, does this then make it wrong?

I enjoy things like this because I think it makes us think about what really makes us all human.

One of my favorite scenes in West World was when one of the robots has an argument with his creator, basically asking, "Why did you make me this way and why do you keep allowing me to get to this point?" And the creator says, "Because I keep hoping you'll decide to join me on your own."

I couldn't help but think of how many times God has had that very same conversation with me.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

Seoul, cloning already IS part of our society. The government's been cloning humans since at least the 1960's..

Woah, what? Can you point me to where that's documented? As far as I've read, the first actual, successful clone was produced roughly 14 years ago.

All the major celebs and government officials are clones. Sounds nutty but it's true, IMO..

It's true, or it's your opinion...? Don't take umbrage to it, but again, I have to ask: Can you point me to some documentation? It sounds like total conspiracy theory.

 

[blue_ladybug]

But if they're cloning the original human, doesn't it make sense that they'd have to also implant that person's memories into the clone? Makes sense to me.. lol.. At the very least, they can feed the clone that person's memories after they've been "born".

No, Blue, memories are life specific and non transferable

 

[Magenta]

But if they're cloning the original human, doesn't it make sense that they'd have to also implant that person's memories into the clone? Makes sense to me.. lol.. At the very least, they can feed the clone that person's memories after they've been "born".

No, Blue, it makes no sense at all, because the clone would generate its own life memories. Though I did like the movie, Being John Malkovitch. That kind of weird is right up my alley

 

[Magenta]

Also, Blue, you are talking about memory extraction and replanting which, as far as I know, is unheard of outside of lala land I did also like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind They tried to erase memories in that movie...

 

[Fenner]

Did you ever see the movie AI, Artificial Intelligence? It was about robots but it was sad and interesting and I think it really looks into how far things can really go when humans mess with things we aren't supposed to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.I._Artificial_Intelligence

 

[Magenta]

I also watched Vanilla Sky again recently. In that movie, a horribly disfigured man allows himself to be cryogenically frozen so he can live until reconstructive surgical technology has caught up to where he can be properly restored to his former boyish good looks (being Tom Cruise, after all... ) Again, in the movie, he does not just exist in a completely unconscious state, but in a lucid dream state, where he is literally creating his life as the years go by and he lays there, unaware of the outside world. If you have not seen the movie I would recommend it

 

[Magenta]

Did you ever see the movie AI, Artificial Intelligence? It was about robots but it was sad and interesting and I think it really looks into how far things can really go when humans mess with things we aren't supposed to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.I._Artificial_Intelligence

That was an interesting movie, very varied in its scope due to the long length of time represented, and yet it was a very touching movie, especially when they talk of the human spirit and its endless search for meaning and purpose found ultimately in love, even in the AIs.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone called me a conspiracy nut. lol.. Anyhoo, Prez Clinton called for a ban on human cloning in 1997. Why would he do that if human cloning weren't real? Here's a link to that.

Clinton Bans Federal Money For Efforts to Clone Humans - The New York Times

Woah, what? Can you point me to where that's documented? As far as I've read, the first actual, successful clone was produced roughly 14 years ago.


It's true, or it's your opinion...? Don't take umbrage to it, but again, I have to ask: Can you point me to some documentation? It sounds like total conspiracy theory.

 

[Magenta]

[video=youtube;i5ZRZPjMURw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5ZRZPjMURw[/video]

 

[Sully]

Kanye West has already been cloned. Wape uk peeps.

 

[blue_ladybug]

As far as the government doing human cloning, go do your own research. It may sound nutty, but crazier things have happened. And the things being done in this world ARE more evil than any of us could ever imagine..

 

[Magenta]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone called me a conspiracy nut. lol.. Anyhoo, Prez Clinton called for a ban on human cloning in 1997. Why would he do that if human cloning weren't real? Here's a link to that.

Clinton Bans Federal Money For Efforts to Clone Humans - The New York Times

From the article:

There is no evidence that scientists are experimenting
with cloning humans, with or without federal money...

 

[tanakh]

The nearest thing to Human Clones we have are identical Twins, Triplets ect. I am certain they have souls. The basic material for a clone is living tissue I assume that a Human being would have a soul in the same way that someone born naturally would have one.

 

[blue_ladybug]

So why waste Congress' time with banning it then? Kinda strange if you ask me.. If they ARE doing human cloning, they aren't gonna admit "yeah we're doing it for spare body parts." :/

From the article:

There is no evidence that scientists are experimenting
with cloning humans, with or without federal money...