Have you believed the false grace message?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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I was so stubborn. It amazes me that some seem to have been able to simply believe all their lives. I cannot grasp that. I rebelled. I rejected God and religion. I ran. I picked up drugs and looked for love in all the wrong places, and really do see now how I was fully snared by the enemy of life as I ran from the source of life.
I had a soft spot for Jesus but I did not know Him personally. I had a divine intervention at the time of the breakdown of my marriage, following two first trimester miscarriages and a still birth. I went to church in the spring of 1988, wondering about Jesus. I went to watch a film on His life, based on the gospel of Luke. As I sat in that church after seeing the first or second part of that movie, I am not sure at what point the following happened: my whole body was filled with the Light of God's unconditional love and forgiveness for me and all I had done, all the ways I had messed up my life, all my failures and mistakes, all of it bathed in the Light of His absolute understanding of how and why I had become the person I was, all of it bathed in the Light of His unconditional love and total forgiveness. I tell you, I wept. I felt so broken and so lost and so unredeemable, but most of all I felt unworthy. And of course I am unworthy.
Even after that, oh yes, it was a cherished experience, but even after that I did not believe in "that" God. I had begun a spiritual seeking phase, and carried on in that for another fifteen years until God clearly called me out of what I was doing. And yes, even after that, even after that clear calling out, my stiff-necked stubbornness was so set against Him it took another year following the calling out for me to surrender my life to Him.
I had a soft spot for Jesus but I did not know Him personally. I had a divine intervention at the time of the breakdown of my marriage, following two first trimester miscarriages and a still birth. I went to church in the spring of 1988, wondering about Jesus. I went to watch a film on His life, based on the gospel of Luke. As I sat in that church after seeing the first or second part of that movie, I am not sure at what point the following happened: my whole body was filled with the Light of God's unconditional love and forgiveness for me and all I had done, all the ways I had messed up my life, all my failures and mistakes, all of it bathed in the Light of His absolute understanding of how and why I had become the person I was, all of it bathed in the Light of His unconditional love and total forgiveness. I tell you, I wept. I felt so broken and so lost and so unredeemable, but most of all I felt unworthy. And of course I am unworthy.
Even after that, oh yes, it was a cherished experience, but even after that I did not believe in "that" God. I had begun a spiritual seeking phase, and carried on in that for another fifteen years until God clearly called me out of what I was doing. And yes, even after that, even after that clear calling out, my stiff-necked stubbornness was so set against Him it took another year following the calling out for me to surrender my life to Him.
S
Fully trained:
κατηρτισμένος (katērtismenos) — 1 OccurrenceLuke 6:40 V-RPM/P-NMS
GRK: τὸν διδάσκαλον κατηρτισμένος δὲ πᾶς
NAS: but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like
KJV: every one that is perfect shall be
INT: the teacher fully trained moreover every one
perfect: how do you get perfect? Regenerated? That kinda goes hand in glove with "will be like his teacher" if our teacher is Jesus.
κατηρτισμένος (katērtismenos) — 1 OccurrenceLuke 6:40 V-RPM/P-NMS
GRK: τὸν διδάσκαλον κατηρτισμένος δὲ πᾶς
NAS: but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like
KJV: every one that is perfect shall be
INT: the teacher fully trained moreover every one
perfect: how do you get perfect? Regenerated? That kinda goes hand in glove with "will be like his teacher" if our teacher is Jesus.
Last edited:
. Pass me that wrench, I got this. Lol
W
Now keep in mind that I am concerned about the meat. And getting to the meat. Look Close, this is not a salvation verse. This is an eternal security verse. ANd His Father is telling us something very important about our salvation.
This is the Father telling us something very,very very important and we need to believe Him. Salvation is a done deal,because we believe on the work of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.. You HAVE eternal life, and you will not ,will not come into judgement and you HAVE passed from death into life.. If we don't believe Him...........we get the idea of loss of salvation from baby believers.
This is the Father telling us something very,very very important and we need to believe Him. Salvation is a done deal,because we believe on the work of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.. You HAVE eternal life, and you will not ,will not come into judgement and you HAVE passed from death into life.. If we don't believe Him...........we get the idea of loss of salvation from baby believers.
"Faithful in Master YHWH..." that I may bring to recollection the sent messengers and set apart ways in Messiah, agreeably what I teach in all the assemblies. I come to you in the spirit of gentleness to plead with you to return to our Fathers' ways, and the ways of all of the set apart believers of the way of Master YHWH and Messiah Yeshua. It is not that I desire to in some way become your father that I speak like this. I speak like this so that you may remember what you have heard from the beginning. It was the Messiah's own Father that led you to believe in his son. Now it is by the spirit of my Master Yeshua that I share with you the certain hope and mystery that has existed from the founding of the heavens and from the foundation of the earth and all that is in them.
I am a slave to my Master Yeshua and a bond servant to his will. He has guided me into truth so that I may share it with those of you who have an ear to hear, obey, and understand. It was with great peril that the sent of Master Yeshua gave their messages of repentance. In chritianity we can see one term, (repentance) for two terms in the scripture. This has caused them in teaching to miss the mark and make grievous error regarding the reality of repentance. 1 Cor. 10:6and11 ish. Says, "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.", also again it is written, "Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."
So now is there rebellion as in Israel's day evident in our day to us? Is there a rebellion against Elohim and his ways? YES! Yes! I tell you and you know daily people of all religious creeds participate in rebellion, covetousness, sexual sin, and yes they have even contempt for Messiah, as some of them tempted; and serpents destroyed them. Neither should we complain, as some of them complained; and where destroyed by the destroyer.
Where does it say to flee from idolatry? You shall not bow down to idols to worship them! I say though they have provoked the jealousy of Master Yeshua. Do you not know and have you not heard we are to be perfect, holy, and blameless; without sin?
Not the hearers of Torah are righteous before Elohim; but the doers of Torah are being made righteous. Do you not know that you profane the name of the Father by not obeying the Father and saying, "We are the people of YHVH"! For we know, that Torah is of the Spirit; also sin is violation of Torah. Don't you know that to whomsoever you give up yourselves to serve in bondage, his servants you are, whom you serve; whether it is to sin, or whether it be to righteousness, that you give ear? Men have however made their own teachings and perverted the plan and grace of Elohim our G_d. Now become a slave to Master Yeshua and to our Father because as long as you are a slave to sin you are emancipated from the grace of Elohim, and a stranger to his covenants; without hope and lost in the world.
Behold the day of YHWH is come.
The good news is that finally there is no condemnation any longer that sin and death brought about through the instruction in righteousness that is meant for your edification and sanctification in Messiah and in our Elohim who makes us Holy. If you have the ear to hear it I am telling you today what works where created for you to live in and gain life through; because it was this same word, ()named Yeshua) that instructed Moses. Before Moses was Abraham worshiped the Messiah and Elohim in agreement to his word. "Because Abraham heard, obeyed*my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and My Torah." Noah found grace in the eyes of Elohim and discerned the difference from clean and unclean. Job was a man that was still pleased in El Shaddai in his great suffering at the hand of the destroyer, “Have you considered My servant Job, that [there is] none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited me against him, to destroy him without cause.".”Also against his three friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer, and [yet] had condemned Job."*
These few righteous men of Elohim not to mention all the prophets that testify to Messiah also obey the instruction of YHWH. There is therefore coming a day when there will be made a distinction between the servants of sin and the servants of Elohim and the Messiah.*
The Gospel or Basar originates in Gan Eden when YHWH introduced Adam and Eve to the "Tree of Life" that would cause them to live forever. The tree here represents the Kingdom of Elohim, which has no beginning or end. The sprout which was spoken of by Isaiah is the foretelling of the birth of the tree of life through Messiah, and foundation of the gospel, though it did not originate at the coming of Yeshua but already existed. In Luke 1:26 "Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,"[Galeela, (to reveal) Nazareth, (city of the branch)] (Torah or Instruction, Still scrolls are called a tree of life in synagogue)"The fruit of the righteous [is a] tree of life, and he who wins souls [is] wise."
So my Master Yeshua is this same shoot of Jessie that is alive, has made atonement for you in your ignorance, and is raised from the death to everlasting life and joy to receive you in obedience in his Father's name and never leave you or forsake you even in these later days. As I have already said there is a time coming and it is already here when distinction will be made between those who are slaves to sin and those slaves to righteousness. So turn quickly to the faith which saves to life of life and grows us together in agreement in Messiah and Strength.* This obedience to Torah is our strength if we remain united with Messiah and remember Torah is of the Spirit and sin is violation of this instruction. Be ignorant no longer and put on the full armor of Elohim and while you do this return and put on the Belt of Truth which is where your weakness is and gird up your loin. If Yeshua dwells in you, you will have this witness. The spirit of knowledge and reverence for YHWH will sprout forth good fruit unto everlasting life.
*Please I know you are not void of understanding, I speak this way because before Elohim no man can stand or be found with words in his mouth at judgment for his defense. If I make a case against you I do myself as well. Yet I plead with you as heirs to the promise and hope which is the Kingdom of Elohim and of the Messiah to not only put your trust in this Yeshua with an outward expression of faith but act in true faith and in obedience and humility, prayerfully to our Elohim Master YHWH in our Messiah Yeshua make supplications, fasting, and with great rejoicing in its season; rest.
I am a slave to my Master Yeshua and a bond servant to his will. He has guided me into truth so that I may share it with those of you who have an ear to hear, obey, and understand. It was with great peril that the sent of Master Yeshua gave their messages of repentance. In chritianity we can see one term, (repentance) for two terms in the scripture. This has caused them in teaching to miss the mark and make grievous error regarding the reality of repentance. 1 Cor. 10:6and11 ish. Says, "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.", also again it is written, "Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."
So now is there rebellion as in Israel's day evident in our day to us? Is there a rebellion against Elohim and his ways? YES! Yes! I tell you and you know daily people of all religious creeds participate in rebellion, covetousness, sexual sin, and yes they have even contempt for Messiah, as some of them tempted; and serpents destroyed them. Neither should we complain, as some of them complained; and where destroyed by the destroyer.
Where does it say to flee from idolatry? You shall not bow down to idols to worship them! I say though they have provoked the jealousy of Master Yeshua. Do you not know and have you not heard we are to be perfect, holy, and blameless; without sin?
Not the hearers of Torah are righteous before Elohim; but the doers of Torah are being made righteous. Do you not know that you profane the name of the Father by not obeying the Father and saying, "We are the people of YHVH"! For we know, that Torah is of the Spirit; also sin is violation of Torah. Don't you know that to whomsoever you give up yourselves to serve in bondage, his servants you are, whom you serve; whether it is to sin, or whether it be to righteousness, that you give ear? Men have however made their own teachings and perverted the plan and grace of Elohim our G_d. Now become a slave to Master Yeshua and to our Father because as long as you are a slave to sin you are emancipated from the grace of Elohim, and a stranger to his covenants; without hope and lost in the world.
Behold the day of YHWH is come.
The good news is that finally there is no condemnation any longer that sin and death brought about through the instruction in righteousness that is meant for your edification and sanctification in Messiah and in our Elohim who makes us Holy. If you have the ear to hear it I am telling you today what works where created for you to live in and gain life through; because it was this same word, ()named Yeshua) that instructed Moses. Before Moses was Abraham worshiped the Messiah and Elohim in agreement to his word. "Because Abraham heard, obeyed*my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and My Torah." Noah found grace in the eyes of Elohim and discerned the difference from clean and unclean. Job was a man that was still pleased in El Shaddai in his great suffering at the hand of the destroyer, “Have you considered My servant Job, that [there is] none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited me against him, to destroy him without cause.".”Also against his three friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer, and [yet] had condemned Job."*
These few righteous men of Elohim not to mention all the prophets that testify to Messiah also obey the instruction of YHWH. There is therefore coming a day when there will be made a distinction between the servants of sin and the servants of Elohim and the Messiah.*
The Gospel or Basar originates in Gan Eden when YHWH introduced Adam and Eve to the "Tree of Life" that would cause them to live forever. The tree here represents the Kingdom of Elohim, which has no beginning or end. The sprout which was spoken of by Isaiah is the foretelling of the birth of the tree of life through Messiah, and foundation of the gospel, though it did not originate at the coming of Yeshua but already existed. In Luke 1:26 "Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,"[Galeela, (to reveal) Nazareth, (city of the branch)] (Torah or Instruction, Still scrolls are called a tree of life in synagogue)"The fruit of the righteous [is a] tree of life, and he who wins souls [is] wise."
So my Master Yeshua is this same shoot of Jessie that is alive, has made atonement for you in your ignorance, and is raised from the death to everlasting life and joy to receive you in obedience in his Father's name and never leave you or forsake you even in these later days. As I have already said there is a time coming and it is already here when distinction will be made between those who are slaves to sin and those slaves to righteousness. So turn quickly to the faith which saves to life of life and grows us together in agreement in Messiah and Strength.* This obedience to Torah is our strength if we remain united with Messiah and remember Torah is of the Spirit and sin is violation of this instruction. Be ignorant no longer and put on the full armor of Elohim and while you do this return and put on the Belt of Truth which is where your weakness is and gird up your loin. If Yeshua dwells in you, you will have this witness. The spirit of knowledge and reverence for YHWH will sprout forth good fruit unto everlasting life.
*Please I know you are not void of understanding, I speak this way because before Elohim no man can stand or be found with words in his mouth at judgment for his defense. If I make a case against you I do myself as well. Yet I plead with you as heirs to the promise and hope which is the Kingdom of Elohim and of the Messiah to not only put your trust in this Yeshua with an outward expression of faith but act in true faith and in obedience and humility, prayerfully to our Elohim Master YHWH in our Messiah Yeshua make supplications, fasting, and with great rejoicing in its season; rest.
What is the basis of our rebellion against the Lord?
Surely it is our hearts not seeing His will and His heart and working in communion with Him.
Now if we believe God is both love and light, His desires and will blameless and without fault
then our rebellion is calling what is going on around us as wrong and evil, rather than calling
out to Him for forgiveness and wisdom through the Holy Spirit.
Our failures, are our failures not something we can either defend or be proud of.
But do we walk in sorrow, grief, weeping, in sackcloth and ashes at our stand against the King.
Now the cross speaks to me of how deep and painful these behaviours are.
When all is said and done, what is most precious to me is my life, which I fear to loose, yet
Christ gave His life for me. That hits me in the face no matter how fully I understand or not,
the other aspects.
So justifying rebellion, not listening to even one word of Christ is bad. Because I am merely
a man, with a few years of life and He is Lord, the King of Creation.
Surely it is our hearts not seeing His will and His heart and working in communion with Him.
Now if we believe God is both love and light, His desires and will blameless and without fault
then our rebellion is calling what is going on around us as wrong and evil, rather than calling
out to Him for forgiveness and wisdom through the Holy Spirit.
Our failures, are our failures not something we can either defend or be proud of.
But do we walk in sorrow, grief, weeping, in sackcloth and ashes at our stand against the King.
Now the cross speaks to me of how deep and painful these behaviours are.
When all is said and done, what is most precious to me is my life, which I fear to loose, yet
Christ gave His life for me. That hits me in the face no matter how fully I understand or not,
the other aspects.
So justifying rebellion, not listening to even one word of Christ is bad. Because I am merely
a man, with a few years of life and He is Lord, the King of Creation.
I love you sister, and as you well know by now, I agree and can relate. I really just haven't said anything much to you (or anyone on CC really) lately, and after reading that I just wanted to say "hi", and thanks for sharing that. I know it was "off topic", but figured I would start too much conflict just saying that.
Amen. If someone wants to walk away from that which is good and right, amen,
if they want to find solutions, amen.
Loving people is finding where they are and helping them along. Now if God is truly
dwelling in us and love overflowing we will want to share this as well. It is up to them
and the Lord how this develops, we can just be a signpost and testimony to His work
in broken lost people.
Often evangelical churches have ended up measuring success as people "saved" and
not how has love been expressed as a praise offering to the King.
if they want to find solutions, amen.
Loving people is finding where they are and helping them along. Now if God is truly
dwelling in us and love overflowing we will want to share this as well. It is up to them
and the Lord how this develops, we can just be a signpost and testimony to His work
in broken lost people.
Often evangelical churches have ended up measuring success as people "saved" and
not how has love been expressed as a praise offering to the King.
The Gospel of Jesus the Christ
The gospel of Jesus the Christ is the good news.
The good news of grace and truth made known to this world through
the Holy Ghost by the name above all names Jesus the Christ the first born of God
the Son of the living God the son of man given birth by woman to which came from man.
For it is written in the Holy Bible...
the scriptures of truth inspired by God.
In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him;
and without him was not any thing made that was made.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
Which were born of God.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Have you received the Word?
If you will receive the Word
God will give you power to become a son of God.
And if you become a son of God by that power
You will become born of God.
And if you become born of God
You will cease from doing sin.
If we say we have sin and say we are born of God
then we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
When Christians tell you they still sin and are born of God...
they are liars. They are not born of God.
When preachers tell you
that even though you are born of God you will still sin....
they are liars. You are not born of God.
For it is written...
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Satan never wants you to believe or know
that by grace through faith in Jesus Christ
you can become born of God and never
commit another sin.
The reason Christians do not want to believe they can
live without committing sin is because they love there sins
more than God.
That is what it is all about.
The love of sin vs the love of God.
The gospel of Jesus the Christ is the good news.
The good news of grace and truth made known to this world through
the Holy Ghost by the name above all names Jesus the Christ the first born of God
the Son of the living God the son of man given birth by woman to which came from man.
For it is written in the Holy Bible...
the scriptures of truth inspired by God.
In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him;
and without him was not any thing made that was made.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
Which were born of God.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Have you received the Word?
If you will receive the Word
God will give you power to become a son of God.
And if you become a son of God by that power
You will become born of God.
And if you become born of God
You will cease from doing sin.
If we say we have sin and say we are born of God
then we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
When Christians tell you they still sin and are born of God...
they are liars. They are not born of God.
When preachers tell you
that even though you are born of God you will still sin....
they are liars. You are not born of God.
For it is written...
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Satan never wants you to believe or know
that by grace through faith in Jesus Christ
you can become born of God and never
commit another sin.
The reason Christians do not want to believe they can
live without committing sin is because they love there sins
more than God.
That is what it is all about.
The love of sin vs the love of God.
I'm not sure that believe means to only believe that you will live forever but to not believe Him about all the rest He said. I believe eternal life is not looked at as a thing to grasp apart from abiding. This is what I believe. He is so merciful that I find I don't want or need to grasp at it apart from Him.
And on second thought, I don't think "believe" is the milk and the news that I will live forever is the meat...I rather think I believe the opposite sort of. The struggle of believing every word and learning to overcome mistrust or hesitancy or fear and walk soundly is the walking of a more mature child, in my opinion.