Have you believed the false grace message?

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garee

Banned
#781
Mar 28, 2016
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#781
Stunnedbygrace said:
And on second thought, I don't think "believe" is the milk and the news that I will live forever is the meat...I rather think I believe the opposite sort of. The struggle of believing every word and learning to overcome mistrust or hesitancy or fear and walk soundly is the walking of a more mature child, in my opinion.
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We are saved by grace (not that of ourselves) and kept by the same work of Christ's faith called the hearing of faith in Galatians 3..

We should never lose our desire for milk, our first love it teaches us he is gracious and it calls us to turn towards God so that we then can repent and do his will, as the meat. . .

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 1Pe 2:2

Then as we grow he can prepare us to do His will as he works in us to both will and do by finishing his good pleasure.(imputed righteousness) Its the kind of food /meat the apostles knew not of until Christ gave thenm the understanding. A person cannot grow if they are lactose intolerant. Christ set the example..

Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Joh 4:33
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#782
Aug 22, 2014
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#782
Jimbone said:
I love you sister, and as you well know by now, I agree and can relate. I really just haven't said anything much to you (or anyone on CC really) lately, and after reading that I just wanted to say "hi", and thanks for sharing that. I know it was "off topic", but figured I would start too much conflict just saying that.
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Dang my poor proof-reading skills, I meant wouldn't*
 
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JohnTalmid

Senior Member
#783
Mar 17, 2017
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#783
What is all this concern for Job's friends? In friendly way folks. I know that the Grace of Elohim is a free gift and so is his word. I walk in the commandments of YHWH and keeping with the full testimony of the Messiah Yeshua. I wonder, if my accusers would look and see if it is possible to keep the commandments of Elohim and not be condemned as much as they have been finding a was to say that trying is a sin. Don't you also say we have freedom from sin?
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#784
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#784
oh brother where do these ppl come from?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#785
#785
wsblind said:
Now keep in mind that I am concerned about the meat. And getting to the meat. Look Close, this is not a salvation verse. This is an eternal security verse. ANd His Father is telling us something very important about our salvation.

This is the Father telling us something very,very very important and we need to believe Him. Salvation is a done deal,because we believe on the work of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.. You HAVE eternal life, and you will not ,will not come into judgement and you HAVE passed from death into life.. If we don't believe Him...........we get the idea of loss of salvation from baby believers.
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Amen, This is where reading a passage carefully must take place.

If we receive these things the moment we have faith in God (passed from death to life, that life being called eternal life. And does not come under judgment. Then we must take it as fact. from that time ON, these are facts.

If they can be lost. because we stopped believing, then we never had eternal life, Just temporary life conditioned on what we did (remain in faith or continue to abide) or in other worde conditional life. and we did not pass from judgment, because we are still judged..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#786
#786
Stunnedbygrace said:
I'm not sure that believe means to only believe that you will live forever but to not believe Him about all the rest He said. I believe eternal life is not looked at as a thing to grasp apart from abiding. This is what I believe. He is so merciful that I find I don't want or need to grasp at it apart from Him.
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to m that is earning your eternal life because you are doing something which takes work. And you are earning the wage of your labor (eternal life) which romans 4 must clearly come into view. Abraham believed and it was imputed to him righteousness.. He was not found by works, else he be found to be by wage.. and boast.

and it also makes the passage we are discussing basically a lie.. Because we never had what was promised.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#788
#788
JohnTalmid said:
What is all this concern for Job's friends? In friendly way folks. I know that the Grace of Elohim is a free gift and so is his word. I walk in the commandments of YHWH and keeping with the full testimony of the Messiah Yeshua. I wonder, if my accusers would look and see if it is possible to keep the commandments of Elohim and not be condemned as much as they have been finding a was to say that trying is a sin. Don't you also say we have freedom from sin?
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can you speak in English please?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#789
#789
eternally-gratefull said:
can you speak in English please?
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You really won't like the translation....just based on his second post on this forum about how works should be a part of salvation and the pseudo-Jewish pretense.

i would comment more but it might be viewed as an "attack" and I don't have time for "victims" who walk around asking for people to take shots at them.

Perhaps someone with more patience can dialog.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#792
#792
Well Elohim and YHWH are names of God.

Messiah Yeshua is Jesus

And he wants to know why those who don't agree with him (his accusers) don't stop trying to get out of doing good works, instead of wasting their time persecuting him.....

That's what I got out of it, but since no one is against doing good works I found it kind of ....straw man type argument.

Might be a vague reference to his accusers being Job's friends and himself as Job?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#794
#794
wsblind said:
Thats funny! I read it 3 or 4 times and All I can say is ,"What?"
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he is one of those that think he has to call God by his Hebrew name to honor him. (Hebrew roots?)

Its nuts..
 
J

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
#795
Mar 17, 2017
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#795
Not most of y'all thank you. However I see bickering when there should be rejoicing. I see a genuine desire in lots of the writing on here, just slightly misplaced I think.. Not sure still getting to know you all from your writing. I have had a few people bring scripture to share. However what have they brought? Nothing that condemned me or my practices just edifies me in truth. I have had some for example in person thrown at me in condemnations for keeping in line with Torah and the testimony of Messiah scripture to prove I'm wrong. Grace for example is a gift of Elohim not delegated by mans teaching but gilded in instruction of the word. What I do get is the inclination of the heart to not follow the commandments but if you are a new creation why do we get hung up to trying if there is no condemnation in Messiah. Does that make sense?
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#796
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#796
eternally-gratefull said:

to m that is earning your eternal life because you are doing something which takes work. And you are earning the wage of your labor (eternal life) which romans 4 must clearly come into view. Abraham believed and it was imputed to him righteousness.. He was not found by works, else he be found to be by wage.. and boast.

and it also makes the passage we are discussing basically a lie.. Because we never had what was promised.
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You are beginning to sound to me like your fastidiousness in keeping the law to not do any work on the day of rest has turned back and made an overcorrection the other way. And so every thread I encounter you in I just hear you berating everyone for doing any little thing. I love you brother, but you give one no room to breath and it becomes not lifting your finger to help them or ease their load. I know you think that most in here don't understand but you constantly berate even the ones who really do understand they don't save themselves or make themselves more holy.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#797
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
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#797
JohnTalmid said:
Not most of y'all thank you. However I see bickering when there should be rejoicing. I see a genuine desire in lots of the writing on here, just slightly misplaced I think.. Not sure still getting to know you all from your writing. I have had a few people bring scripture to share. However what have they brought? Nothing that condemned me or my practices just edifies me in truth. I have had some for example in person thrown at me in condemnations for keeping in line with Torah and the testimony of Messiah scripture to prove I'm wrong. Grace for example is a gift of Elohim not delegated by mans teaching but gilded in instruction of the word. What I do get is the inclination of the heart to not follow the commandments but if you are a new creation why do we get hung up to trying if there is no condemnation in Messiah. Does that make sense?
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We have a nice pie in the other room. You're welcome to a slice of it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#798
#798
Stunnedbygrace said:
You are beginning to sound to me like your fastidiousness in keeping the law to not do any work on the day of rest has turned back and made an overcorrection the other way. And so every thread I encounter you in I just hear you berating everyone for doing any little thing. I love you brother, but you give one no room to breath and it becomes not lifting your finger to help them or ease their load. I know you think that most in here don't understand but you constantly berate even the ones who really do understand they don't save themselves or make themselves more holy.
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I love you to sis. But I just call it as I see it.

When ANYONE (I do not care who they are) says they only get eternal life, when they continually do something that takes work. They to me are all in the same boat.

The jews, and I would say roman catholic/orthodox are in the same boat. But legalism comes in all different flavors.. Just because someone says they do not believe they HAVE to do works of the law/church to keep saved, does not mean they are not still trying to earn salvation.

Paul spent half the new testament fighting legalism.. So it is a very important topic.. I think it should be for all of us. Our eternal destiny is at stake.

What amazes me is you just like they, do not want to discuss the passage. Instead of act like I am out attacking everyone I meet (which is not true) and do not want to discuss the word. just throw my believe system around and judge, Which is far from the truth..

As I have told peter many times, You can say your not trying to save yourself until you are blue in the face. It does not make it true, if you are claiming salvation is based on what you do (a reward)

But like him, You seem to not want to discuss it, Just attack the one who is trying to show you how they disagree with you.

That's sad.

And like I said, I am glad actually, I fully understand why you are defending Peter now.. It all makes total sense.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#799
#799
JohnTalmid said:
Not most of y'all thank you. However I see bickering when there should be rejoicing. I see a genuine desire in lots of the writing on here, just slightly misplaced I think.. Not sure still getting to know you all from your writing. I have had a few people bring scripture to share. However what have they brought? Nothing that condemned me or my practices just edifies me in truth. I have had some for example in person thrown at me in condemnations for keeping in line with Torah and the testimony of Messiah scripture to prove I'm wrong. Grace for example is a gift of Elohim not delegated by mans teaching but gilded in instruction of the word. What I do get is the inclination of the heart to not follow the commandments but if you are a new creation why do we get hung up to trying if there is no condemnation in Messiah. Does that make sense?
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the torah and following it will not save you, keep you saved, or make you a righteous person. Calling God in his Hebrew names make it appear you are trying to puff yourself up as better than they are, because you call God by his Hebrew name.. And all it does it turn them off.. Then if you start pushing following torah (law) well.. Good luck.. that just makes it worse.
 
J

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
#800
Mar 17, 2017
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#800
Sorry you misunderstood. I'm not Job just the way folks try to say I'm cursed for keeping Torah. Again not saying that's what I see here.
 
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