Death before sin.

[Embankment]

In Genesis, Adam & Eve clearly died spiritually when they ate the forbidden fruit. They clearly disobied and fell from God's favor. They were the first humans to live and all humans from that point on have physically died.
Did they introduce physical death into the world with their sin or did animals, insects and plants live and die before the fall of man?
What is your openion?

 

[Locutus]

Physical death is natural - the "death" Adam died in the day he ate was separation from God, that relationship was restored by Christ.

Physical death for the Christian is victory.

 

[Magenta]

In Genesis, Adam & Eve clearly died spiritually when they ate the forbidden fruit. They clearly disobied and fell from God's favor. They were the first humans to live and all humans from that point on have physically died.
Did they introduce physical death into the world with their sin or did animals, insects and plants live and die before the fall of man?
What is your openion?

Scripture plainly states that death entered the world as the result of the sin of one man, Adam.

sin entered the world through one man, and death
through sin, and in this way death came to all people
from Romans 5:12

 

[lastofall]

"Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:60)

 

[TraySir]

In Genesis, Adam & Eve clearly died spiritually when they ate the forbidden fruit. They clearly disobied and fell from God's favor. They were the first humans to live and all humans from that point on have physically died.
Did they introduce physical death into the world with their sin or did animals, insects and plants live and die before the fall of man?
What is your openion?

The devil, who is a liar John 8.44, started it. Then Eve. She told Adam to eat. What's he to do?
If your wife says Eat and God says Don't Eat, you are in trouble either way. Interesting, Adam was willing to face the wrath of God instead of his wife's! Hell hath no fury...and you know the rest.
I am bunkered down and ready for the onslaught.

 

[jb]

Scripture plainly states that death entered the world as the result of the sin of one man, Adam.

sin entered the world through one man, and death (spiritual death)
through sin, and in this way death came to all people
from Romans 5:12

You omitted the all important end bit!

"...because all sinned..."

 

[Magenta]

You omitted the all important end bit!

"...because all sinned..."

I only gave the part relevant to the query, which had to do with the origin of death. That we all sin as a result of being born in Adam after the fall did not seem to figure in the question asked by the OP

 

[jb]

I only gave the part relevant to the query, which had to do with the origin of death. That we all sin as a result of being born in Adam after the fall did not seem to figure in the question asked by the OP

Ah, but it is those last 3 words which give that verse its correct context and therefore meaning!

 

[Yahshua]

If we do not add to or take away from the words given then yes "physical death" entered into the world because of Adam's sin.

Scripture says there were two trees highlighted in the garden: the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God said they could freely eat of *ANY* tree in the garden except the forbidden tree. Again, ANY tree was freely available to eat except for the forbidden tree. So the tree of life was freely available to be eaten as many times as Adam and Even chose.

If the tree of life provided "life" as the fruit, and they ate of the tree, they would in fact *physically* live forever. God even says this is the reason why he barred Adam and Eve from the garden after they sinned.


Genesis 3:22 [brackets are mine for implication. I'm not adding to scripture.]
"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his [physical] hand, and take also of the [physical] tree of life, and [physically] eat, and [physically] live for ever..."


The passage doesn't say "lest he take also from the tree of life and forever be allowed in heaven when he inevitably dies".

No God was preventing Adam from physical immortality because he was now spiritually corrupt. So if this is the case that means the opposite must be true: In other words, that if Adam did not spiritually corrupt himself (i.e. sin) he would've been able to freely eat of the tree of life and physically live forever.

So the death that entered into the world because of Adam was physical death.


But what about the fact that Adam didn't immediately die? What about the fact that he lived to be 930 years old? So wasn't the death God was speaking about a spiritual death instead?

Remember that God measures time from his perspective not ours. Scripture says, "a day to the lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day", testified twice in Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 ("a testimony of two or more establishes a truth" - Deut 19:5, Matthew 18:16 and 2 Corinthians 13:1).

God told Adam "in the day" he eats of the forbidden try he would surely die. If a thousand years is as a day to God, then God was true to his word. "In the day" (i.e. within the 1000 years) that Adam ate of the forbidden tree he surely died. Truly when one is separated from God's presence it's spiritual death, but God's presence never left man after his first sin. He just made sure they wouldn't live forever until mankind was restored.

- God clothes sinful Adam and Eve.

- Next we read that his sons Cain and Abel present offerings to God and when Cain's offering wasn't accepted God talks with him encouraging him and also warning him of satan's temptation.

- Then when Cain kills Abel God is there speaking to him, punishing him but also having mercy on him in punishment by marking him.

- Then we follow the genealogy of Adam where we read that after Enosh was born men began to call upon God's name.

- Next Enoch was taken up to God, never seeing death, because he pleased Him.

It wasn't until the events of Genesis 6 when God said that his spirit wouldn't always continue with man (because all flesh had corrupted itself), eventually wiping out all mankind with a *physical* flood.

---

So no all the evidence suggests that physical death would have never been a reality if Adam never sinned.

 

[BeyondET]

Huh does scripture even say Adam and Eve died spiritually, I'm not talking about theories and the like but actual verses that say death of the souls within Adam and Eve, I know it mentions physical death,

 

[Locutus]

(Rom 7:9 KJV) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Same thing happened with Adam and Eve, they died in the day when they broke the "law" to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Physical death is a natural process.

 

[Embankment]

Excellent answers!
My question still is, what about animals and plants before the sin of Adam? Did animals and plants live and die?

 

[Locutus]

Excellent answers!
My question still is, what about animals and plants before the sin of Adam? Did animals and plants live and die?

Of course they did..

 

[Zmouth]

In Genesis, Adam & Eve clearly died spiritually when they ate the forbidden fruit.

Clearly? Maybe you can help me see how they died spiritually when they ate the forbidden fruit.

• So if they died spiritually when they ate the forbidden fruit is that why Adam gave his wife the name of Eve afterwards? [Genesis 5:2]
• ​So if they died spiritually when they ate the forbidden fruit are you saying the body can live without the spirit? [James 2:26]

They clearly disobied and fell from God's favor.

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Genesis 1:29

Since it is written that once they ate of the tree they eyes were opened and they knew they were naked then what tree would you think they ate from? [Genesis 3:7]

So in the parable of the good tree it is said that a good tree only brings forth good fruit, a good tree can not bring forth evil fruit nor can an evil tree bring forth good fruit then understanding that only the eternal has no beginning nor end of life, maybe you can explain the following;

• ...how God created a man that was eternal since the eternal does not have a beginning nor does it have an end?
• ...how that man who is believed to have been created then he had a beginning of life so wouldn't that also infer that he would also have an end of life. [Ecclesiastes 3:2]

They were the first humans to live and all humans from that point on have physically died.
Did they introduce physical death into the world with their sin or did animals, insects and plants live and die before the fall of man?
What is your openion?

Jesus never used the inference of 'spiritual' or 'spiritually'. In fact the only inference of the term 'spiritual' in the OT is found in Hosea wherein it is written "...the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred." It isn't used again until Paul.

However, he did differentiate between earthly things and heavenly things. Take for example the following passage:

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:8

So being born of the Spirit then you obviously can hear the sound of the wind right?
So if the wind blows where it will then can you tell from whence it comes from? or where it goes?

 

[Sheepman]

Excellent answers!
My question still is, what about animals and plants before the sin of Adam? Did animals and plants live and die?

Its all related to time, the concept of eternity and death. Isnt it.
If God set a timekeeper in the Mazzaroth to keep order of "all things", that have nothing to do with death. Adam might have lived 6000 years as counted by this massive clock, before his better half was created from his body. Together they might have lived...say..90000000000 years. Finally they obviously ate the mysterious fruit by deception (thats why they didnt get the horrible punishment as satan and judas iscariot. As the difference between Peter and Judas Iscariot.)

Anyway..

Who knows what "died" and what did not. Why do you wanna know as the angels use to ask.
The universe might have been set at ever expansion wich seems to have halted for some reason in that case. The popular expansion theory is easily refutable but that have to be another thread.

Maybe the scene was set for a huge expansion ones man was created and spread in an ever expanding universe. Satan..one of the sons of God could not take it. And so decided to deceive them to prematurely take the knowledge they could not handle as we see around us everywhere everyday.

So yes. Animals plants could have died. But I dont think so. The bibles heart is at the core. The cross. The tree. The redemtion on a bare stake.

I have no idea why so many christians think the forbidden fruit is some sort of philosophical system. They cleary ate something.
Any knowledge about eyeopening drugs should make it clear it happens and is not some strange metaphor. And as a matter of fact. Those who take theese kinds of drugs or use mantras and diverse occult knowledge to open the third eye are almost always burned out. Because what they see and the doors they open eats them up.

Wonder what the rainbow is all about. A sign of wich frequenzies are allowed and the darker deeper shades that is banned until they day of wrath. Thank God for the rainbow not the gayparade. What happens when/if man find or is given the key to this pandoras box and is able to bring back the deeper shades so that high and low can interact as before the great flood when God killed all wickedness. Out of Love for his people. Humans. IE , those who want to be.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

In Genesis, Adam & Eve clearly died spiritually when they ate the forbidden fruit. They clearly disobied and fell from God's favor. They were the first humans to live and all humans from that point on have physically died.
Did they introduce physical death into the world with their sin or did animals, insects and plants live and die before the fall of man?
What is your openion?

Genesis 3:13-14
King James Version(KJV)

13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
+++
IMO that means,the other animals were cursed also,just not as bad as the serpent.