Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer
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Folks, if I may interject a point. Jesus said ,what would it profit a man if he gained the whole world and lost his soul? Jesus is pointing out that the most valuable thing you possess is yourself, you, the life that God has given you, that should be more valuable to you then the whole world. The most valuable thing you possess is YOU. When Jesus said to love others as yourself He was simply saying to realize that others have the same value you do, so treat them that way. There is nothing wrong with doing something for yourself, actually you should be doing good things for yourself, just make sure you do not injure anyone else in the process. And help others to do good things for their selves. I want God, I don't want hell, that is what I want for me. It is alright to want good things for ourselves.
dc - I am sorry, I am slow in my picking things up.
You believe sin is an inherited weakness we as humans. Without this weakness we
would walk in love.
God is the vine, we are the branches. He is the source of life and everything, everything
that does not abide in Him dies. Everything that abides in Him lives.
We are born in separation from Him and so will die. The fruit of this separation is sin.
Unless we gain communion with Him we are chaff blowing in the wind.
Simple tests - do you know God when you are born or are you totally alone?
Is our experiences outside Christ one of knowledge, love and direction or lostness,
confusion and waring emotions?
Sin are actions that hurt others that push our objectives above others. They deny
our interdependence and are driven by desire and need.
Our separation from the source kills us every day we walk.
You believe sin is an inherited weakness we as humans. Without this weakness we
would walk in love.
God is the vine, we are the branches. He is the source of life and everything, everything
that does not abide in Him dies. Everything that abides in Him lives.
We are born in separation from Him and so will die. The fruit of this separation is sin.
Unless we gain communion with Him we are chaff blowing in the wind.
Simple tests - do you know God when you are born or are you totally alone?
Is our experiences outside Christ one of knowledge, love and direction or lostness,
confusion and waring emotions?
Sin are actions that hurt others that push our objectives above others. They deny
our interdependence and are driven by desire and need.
Our separation from the source kills us every day we walk.
Men are born spiritually dead in there trespasses and sin .Not weak but dead therefore no ability to work/love. As soon as they are born they go forth telling lies.Its what sinner do. If any man say he sins not it makes God out to be the liar.
When we are born again from above then we can then walk in His love. If we are to let God be true we must first count every man a liar.
When we are born again from above then we can then walk in His love. If we are to let God be true we must first count every man a liar.
Keep denying the facts.........this is us in the flesh......regardless of your ability to receive it!
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
dc - you live in unbelief of Paul and the apostles.
They call the churches they visited Holy people. Not because of imputed righteousness, but
because that is what they were, Holy people. God had made them through Christ Holy.
And as long as they abide and walk in the Spirit, loving and ministering Christ through
them, then this will stay true. But if they abandon the vine, cast themselves away from
the body, they will wither and perish.
Now this theology you cannot face, though it is plain in scripture. It is about communion,
being One in Christ, loving and being loved. Now you have experienced Christs love in your
heart so I wonder why you cannot have the faith to believe His word about victory and
spiritual reality. What sin is unconfessed and still keeps you bound? Why have the past
defeats in your past caused such a shadow in walking in purity with Christ your Lord and Saviour?
All I can share is the power of love and Christ at work in me to walk and love as I go.
Each step is always a new step deeper, another part of the way with God, into which
we must trust and be faithful. So many claim they love Christ, yet when asked just
to take that next step freeze and fail, and rebel. In Gods time the elect will always
walk on, so what are you? Called or broken?
They call the churches they visited Holy people. Not because of imputed righteousness, but
because that is what they were, Holy people. God had made them through Christ Holy.
And as long as they abide and walk in the Spirit, loving and ministering Christ through
them, then this will stay true. But if they abandon the vine, cast themselves away from
the body, they will wither and perish.
Now this theology you cannot face, though it is plain in scripture. It is about communion,
being One in Christ, loving and being loved. Now you have experienced Christs love in your
heart so I wonder why you cannot have the faith to believe His word about victory and
spiritual reality. What sin is unconfessed and still keeps you bound? Why have the past
defeats in your past caused such a shadow in walking in purity with Christ your Lord and Saviour?
All I can share is the power of love and Christ at work in me to walk and love as I go.
Each step is always a new step deeper, another part of the way with God, into which
we must trust and be faithful. So many claim they love Christ, yet when asked just
to take that next step freeze and fail, and rebel. In Gods time the elect will always
walk on, so what are you? Called or broken?
You just contradicted yourself in the bolded.....wow....man you take the cake for contradiction....shakes head.....cannot believe some of the stuff you say.......
Not because of imputed righteousness, but
because that is what they were, Holy people
God had made them through Christ Holy.
You absolutely take the cake!
Not because of imputed righteousness, but
because that is what they were, Holy people
God had made them through Christ Holy.
You absolutely take the cake!
what law did you get your sin from, and its rude to use caps, it classed as shouting. since you cannot prove you have a law. i guess this conversation is over.
Acts 15: The Jerusalem Council
1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers.4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them.5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."
6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."
12 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.13 After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brothers, listen to me.14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name.15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 "'After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;
I will rebuild its ruins,
and I will restore it,
17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
says the Lord, who makes these things18 known from of old.'
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues."
note, when could a gentile go into a synagogues.
Acts 15: The Jerusalem Council
1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers.4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them.5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."
6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."
12 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.13 After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brothers, listen to me.14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name.15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 "'After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;
I will rebuild its ruins,
and I will restore it,
17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
says the Lord, who makes these things18 known from of old.'
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues."
note, when could a gentile go into a synagogues.
The sun is out, the sky is blue, there's not a cloud to spoil the view.
Well unless you live over here then it's,
The sun is not out, the sky is not blue and there are many grey clouds.
I might come and live where you do as the sky is always blue
Well unless you live over here then it's,
The sun is not out, the sky is not blue and there are many grey clouds.
I might come and live where you do as the sky is always blue
dc - There is a conceptual problem here.
I can say I drive a car because a driving instructor taught me, through him
I drive the car.
Now saying through him I do not mean he is driving the car, I am driving the
car, but the skills I learnt were because of the instructor.
Now you know this meaning because there is no spiritual element to driving
instructors.
Because there is with Christ, it does not mean every phrase of Holy through Christ,
means it is Christs holiness that is being seen and not the believers.
But this is exactly what you are always inferring. Now this is not logical or sensible.
Simply because when believers sin, they are called to repent and get right with God.
And if they do not, they are to be excluded and treated as unbelievers.
Now if believers where only regarded with Christs righteousness, it would not matter
ever how they behaved, because this was always dealt with. But this is not scripture
of simple sense, or anything written in scripture. We are accountable for our actions
and will be judged for them.
But I know once people make this break between action and accountability, anything
can be said and argued. So I do not expect any agreement from you, just for those
who have not made this break, it is the beginning of psychological disorders, where
who we are and what we do ceases to be relevant, and you can define what you like
for yourself. And so their leaders do, appropriating wealth, sexual favours, every vice
they care to indulge in, because there is no justice even when caught.
I can say I drive a car because a driving instructor taught me, through him
I drive the car.
Now saying through him I do not mean he is driving the car, I am driving the
car, but the skills I learnt were because of the instructor.
Now you know this meaning because there is no spiritual element to driving
instructors.
Because there is with Christ, it does not mean every phrase of Holy through Christ,
means it is Christs holiness that is being seen and not the believers.
But this is exactly what you are always inferring. Now this is not logical or sensible.
Simply because when believers sin, they are called to repent and get right with God.
And if they do not, they are to be excluded and treated as unbelievers.
Now if believers where only regarded with Christs righteousness, it would not matter
ever how they behaved, because this was always dealt with. But this is not scripture
of simple sense, or anything written in scripture. We are accountable for our actions
and will be judged for them.
But I know once people make this break between action and accountability, anything
can be said and argued. So I do not expect any agreement from you, just for those
who have not made this break, it is the beginning of psychological disorders, where
who we are and what we do ceases to be relevant, and you can define what you like
for yourself. And so their leaders do, appropriating wealth, sexual favours, every vice
they care to indulge in, because there is no justice even when caught.
We live by the life of Christ Himself living in us. His righteousness is our righteousness and He lives in and through us now because we are joined as one spirit with Him for eternity. 1 Cor.6:17
This is a major stumbling block to those of us with a humanistic D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset because they need to create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do.
This is called works-righteousness and it is an anti-Christ belief.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
This is a major stumbling block to those of us with a humanistic D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset because they need to create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do.
This is called works-righteousness and it is an anti-Christ belief.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
On judgement day what will stand between you and God?
The books of your deeds, and the lambs book of life.
With faith in Christ God says this
"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
Psalm 103:12
So are you holy, purified and forgiven now? Is your name written in the lambs book
of life?
Do you even know the words of Christ, let alone put them into action?
Repent and believe on Christ and cross, and make peace with God.
The foolishness of man is to disregard the ways of the Father and the
commands of the King and treat them as nothing, to be cast aside
and trampled on like dirt on the ground.
Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away.
Psalm 1:4
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Matt 3:12
The books of your deeds, and the lambs book of life.
With faith in Christ God says this
"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
Psalm 103:12
So are you holy, purified and forgiven now? Is your name written in the lambs book
of life?
Do you even know the words of Christ, let alone put them into action?
Repent and believe on Christ and cross, and make peace with God.
The foolishness of man is to disregard the ways of the Father and the
commands of the King and treat them as nothing, to be cast aside
and trampled on like dirt on the ground.
Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away.
Psalm 1:4
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Matt 3:12
There is dumb and there is really dumb.
The problem with mockers that is all they can do, and when you make a point
it is not fair point, good example, but ridicule.
All communication is about constructing a verbal picture to show a point.
It fails if the other side do not care the result, there objective is to
destroy the picture creator.
I suppose for me this tells me who knows Jesus and who does not.
When you kid puts together a picture you encourage them and try to
understand what they meant by each part. It tells you something
about where they are and what they have actually achieved.
In a pastoral context of house groups, this is an important skill.
Now one would hope such spiritual gifts would be exercised amongst
the people of God, unless in reality the setting is actually very different.
So in a strange way I get my answer. At least it makes it simpler on
the communication front.
The problem with mockers that is all they can do, and when you make a point
it is not fair point, good example, but ridicule.
All communication is about constructing a verbal picture to show a point.
It fails if the other side do not care the result, there objective is to
destroy the picture creator.
I suppose for me this tells me who knows Jesus and who does not.
When you kid puts together a picture you encourage them and try to
understand what they meant by each part. It tells you something
about where they are and what they have actually achieved.
In a pastoral context of house groups, this is an important skill.
Now one would hope such spiritual gifts would be exercised amongst
the people of God, unless in reality the setting is actually very different.
So in a strange way I get my answer. At least it makes it simpler on
the communication front.
To all the software developers of the world, hello.
The linguistic and theological structures people build reminded me of problems
I once saw in a database design. Someone had a table on a screen and carefully
described how the system worked.
A questioner asked did he mean this particular issue was the way it worked.
I suddenly realised based on the same diagram and description there were
two different answers, one intended and one not seen.
Now those who only saw one solution were incredulous. Ofcourse it was not
like that.
When one has gone through these puzzels enough times you realise humbleness
is always a good state for the heart. Time will tell.
God bless you all.
The linguistic and theological structures people build reminded me of problems
I once saw in a database design. Someone had a table on a screen and carefully
described how the system worked.
A questioner asked did he mean this particular issue was the way it worked.
I suddenly realised based on the same diagram and description there were
two different answers, one intended and one not seen.
Now those who only saw one solution were incredulous. Ofcourse it was not
like that.
When one has gone through these puzzels enough times you realise humbleness
is always a good state for the heart. Time will tell.
God bless you all.
Another lesson of persuading people
If you see something ahead of others and take the flack, when it becomes obvious
no one will thank you, they will just tell you it was obvious from the beginning though
you were the only one who saw it.
But it is people who see these things and turn the tides steer the ship.
It is a thankless task, but those who are called serve because they know there literally
is nobody else. Look at Elijah facing Ahab and all the prophets of Baal. Why on earth
would he win? Because he knew God.
You could say this is one real situation where it really does matter who you know.
Ironic that,
If you see something ahead of others and take the flack, when it becomes obvious
no one will thank you, they will just tell you it was obvious from the beginning though
you were the only one who saw it.
But it is people who see these things and turn the tides steer the ship.
It is a thankless task, but those who are called serve because they know there literally
is nobody else. Look at Elijah facing Ahab and all the prophets of Baal. Why on earth
would he win? Because he knew God.
You could say this is one real situation where it really does matter who you know.
Ironic that,
Your right.....the following bolded is a prime example......
You just contradicted yourself in the bolded.....wow....man you take the cake for contradiction....shakes head.....cannot believe some of the stuff you say.......
Not because of imputed righteousness, but
because that is what they were, Holy people
God had made them through Christ Holy.
You absolutely take the cake!
You just contradicted yourself in the bolded.....wow....man you take the cake for contradiction....shakes head.....cannot believe some of the stuff you say.......
Not because of imputed righteousness, but
because that is what they were, Holy people
God had made them through Christ Holy.
You absolutely take the cake!