Flood - worldwide or local?
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Then there is absolutely no reason for the ark..
Noahs perception of land would be like mine. If God told me today he was going to wipe all flesh off the land, and he was going to flood the earth to do it. So make an ark.
I would know by physics and science, If God is going to produce a flood that will kill all life on land.
1. It would have t be a very fast flood. So man could not outrun it (a slow moving flood may kill some people in the immediate vicinity, But the people on higher ground will have time to run to even high ground in order to survice)
2. In order to make sure all flesh , It would have to reach THE HIGHEST MOUNTAIN TOPS
3. In order to do this (again, using science) it would have to be a global event.
So thanks, But no thanks..
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All means all. Unless specified otherwise.. It always is in context. In the context of the flood. All means all flesh outside the ark.
Using the flesh in the ark (which was sent there TO BE SAVED, in the first place. BECAUSE ALL FLESH NOT IN THE ARK WOULD BE KILLED...)
God said to put the animals on the ark, with his family because he was going to DESTROY ALL LIVING THINGS ON EARTH WHICH HE HAS MADE. ) is not a valid excuse to proof a local flood..
Using the flesh in the ark (which was sent there TO BE SAVED, in the first place. BECAUSE ALL FLESH NOT IN THE ARK WOULD BE KILLED...)
God said to put the animals on the ark, with his family because he was going to DESTROY ALL LIVING THINGS ON EARTH WHICH HE HAS MADE. ) is not a valid excuse to proof a local flood..
it sounds very different if you say 'all living things on the land which He had made' referring to the land known to NOAH
this pernickety arguing from an English text which has a number of translations possible is a waste of time except to those already convinced,. And they won't switch anyway, For they translate it differently.
this pernickety arguing from an English text which has a number of translations possible is a waste of time except to those already convinced,. And they won't switch anyway, For they translate it differently.
The Genesis text tells us that all flesh had become corrupted.
However, the same passage tells us that Noah was a "righteous man, blameless in his time."
It is clear from the text that "all flesh" did not actually refer to all flesh, since there was at least one exception.
We see that in the tenth month, the mountains became visible to Noah (Genesis 8:5). Some 40+ days later (Genesis 8:6), Noah sent a dove out of the ark (Genesis 8:8). However, the dove was unable to land because of all the water (Genesis 8:9). Then, the text tells us that water was "on the surface of all the earth." This is obviously a bad translation of kol erets, since we know that the water had not covered the mountains for at least 40 days.
"All" in this chapter simply does not bear a mathematical meaning of the word.
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I think ALL, but with some small exceptions. When I was in university for my undergrad degree, the field of study I chose was biogeography, which is the interaction of plants and animals with the land. I was a new Christian, and found out the prof was a Christian. He had long been indoctrinated with evolutionary theory. But then, he went to study the tropical rain forests of Brazil. He said there were small "relic" areas that contained literally millions and millions of plant and animal species. So much more than any of the surrounding jungle, or any place else in the world.
It so shocked him, because he realized that the theory of evolution predicts more and more plant and animal species evolving, instead he was seeing the opposite. He was seeing evidence of a world before the flood. With diversity that is unheard of anywhere else. So, he became a creationist, although long earth. (I'm short earth.)
So, my theory, is that like in Water World, where they finally found land, and it was the top of Mt. Everest, the waters did cover the whole world. Perhaps even the relic areas were flooded, but not as deeply as the rest of the world, and maybe the waters drained from that area first, and most of the animal and plant species survived.
Certainly, it would be nice if this information about these relic areas were more widespread. As it is, these areas are being slashed and burned for large tracts of crops and monocultured trees. For me, it shows the utterly amazing creativity of our Creator God, and how impoverished we are today in our biological diversity.
The fact is, there was a massive flood. There is geological evidence in every rock and land form for a flood. 80% of the world's rocks are sedimentary, that means, laid down by water. We just went to the Grand Canyon a few weeks ago. That massive and awe inspiring place was sedimentary rocks right down to the basement rocks, which were igneous. In other words, rocks that were there before the flood, when all those layers were laid down, and in the most amazing minerals and colours. It was like God said, "Hmm, let's let a lot of sediments build up here." Then he pulled the rocks apart with a little bit of uplift. I did read all the old age evolutionary geology in the various museums and exhibits, but they rang very hollow to me. And I have a good geological background, which was required for my geography degree.
There is also the legends of massive floods all over the world. I'm sure someone dealt with the anthrolopological aspects of the flood. (No, I did not read the whole thread, sorry!) As for the word "all" in the Bible, please remember that the Hebrews, and indeed all the early cultures were not stuck with rigid views of mathematics. There were no computers, no recording of every little geophysical evidence for the flood. The Bible is the history of God. That doesn't mean it is wrong, at all! But it does mean, it was written in terms of how those people thought, not in terms of 21st century North America, in which we demand slavish devotions to clocks, and numbers in everything. That's cultural. As best as Moses knew, and it was passed down, all the known earth was flooded, and it was! In fact, the whole world was flooded. But I believe God left those relic areas, so people would realize what the earth really was like before the flood destroyed so much. And that glorifies God!
It so shocked him, because he realized that the theory of evolution predicts more and more plant and animal species evolving, instead he was seeing the opposite. He was seeing evidence of a world before the flood. With diversity that is unheard of anywhere else. So, he became a creationist, although long earth. (I'm short earth.)
So, my theory, is that like in Water World, where they finally found land, and it was the top of Mt. Everest, the waters did cover the whole world. Perhaps even the relic areas were flooded, but not as deeply as the rest of the world, and maybe the waters drained from that area first, and most of the animal and plant species survived.
Certainly, it would be nice if this information about these relic areas were more widespread. As it is, these areas are being slashed and burned for large tracts of crops and monocultured trees. For me, it shows the utterly amazing creativity of our Creator God, and how impoverished we are today in our biological diversity.
The fact is, there was a massive flood. There is geological evidence in every rock and land form for a flood. 80% of the world's rocks are sedimentary, that means, laid down by water. We just went to the Grand Canyon a few weeks ago. That massive and awe inspiring place was sedimentary rocks right down to the basement rocks, which were igneous. In other words, rocks that were there before the flood, when all those layers were laid down, and in the most amazing minerals and colours. It was like God said, "Hmm, let's let a lot of sediments build up here." Then he pulled the rocks apart with a little bit of uplift. I did read all the old age evolutionary geology in the various museums and exhibits, but they rang very hollow to me. And I have a good geological background, which was required for my geography degree.
There is also the legends of massive floods all over the world. I'm sure someone dealt with the anthrolopological aspects of the flood. (No, I did not read the whole thread, sorry!) As for the word "all" in the Bible, please remember that the Hebrews, and indeed all the early cultures were not stuck with rigid views of mathematics. There were no computers, no recording of every little geophysical evidence for the flood. The Bible is the history of God. That doesn't mean it is wrong, at all! But it does mean, it was written in terms of how those people thought, not in terms of 21st century North America, in which we demand slavish devotions to clocks, and numbers in everything. That's cultural. As best as Moses knew, and it was passed down, all the known earth was flooded, and it was! In fact, the whole world was flooded. But I believe God left those relic areas, so people would realize what the earth really was like before the flood destroyed so much. And that glorifies God!
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It is a waste of time to say your way is correct NO MATTER WHAT, (and also shows YOUR MIND IS SHUT) when you can only prove it with perception, and what you think happened.
I do not have to prove you wrong, Just show where you may be wrong.
Be it a local flood or whole earth flood does not affect me in the slightest.
I do not have to prove you wrong, Just show where you may be wrong.
Be it a local flood or whole earth flood does not affect me in the slightest.
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Thanks, I should have looked, and not assumed.. lol Great point.
However, Context does show that ALL FLESH will be destroyed EXCEPT those God chose to keep alive.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.
Not sure how anyone can get just local people in this passage, Under heaven, and on earth.. Can get no more direct, Even if you interpret the "earth" as "dry or habited" land.
Because God makes a direct correlation, between those who will destroy, and those who will LIVE.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark—you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And you shall take for yourself of all food that is eaten, and you shall gather it to yourself; and it shall be food for you and for them.”
Notice also. It did nto tell Noah to go get them, It says "THEY WILL COME TO YOU" (GOD INTERVINES AND CAUSES IT TO HAPPEN..
However, Context does show that ALL FLESH will be destroyed EXCEPT those God chose to keep alive.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.
Not sure how anyone can get just local people in this passage, Under heaven, and on earth.. Can get no more direct, Even if you interpret the "earth" as "dry or habited" land.
Because God makes a direct correlation, between those who will destroy, and those who will LIVE.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark—you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And you shall take for yourself of all food that is eaten, and you shall gather it to yourself; and it shall be food for you and for them.”
Notice also. It did nto tell Noah to go get them, It says "THEY WILL COME TO YOU" (GOD INTERVINES AND CAUSES IT TO HAPPEN..