Not By Works
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Are you telling me to reject all the truths laid down before you by all the other believers and believe you instead of God? I'm not surprised with your response coz' what else would i expect from those who don't have the Spirit, the bible calls them dead( james 2:14-26) and the dead can never have works, vain &/without a purpose.
Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
Another thing that comes to mind is when all the common and unclean because of mixing with the unclean where lowered on the sheet by the four corners we find the answer to Shaul in his vision from Yeshua Messiah. Treat no man as common or unclean. I believe later Shaul also made illusion to this when he reminds us to not treat the rich man with more respect sitting him up front. Or when he mentioned that in all modesty act in holiness even in your appearance. Should a woman cover her head while in a prayer session with others? If you speak in tongues should you not be in control of that Spirit if it is of Elohim? Would you have any interpreter as well in the congregation? If you do let them speak! If you do feast when you gather do you eat before you come? As to not bring shame to the hungry among you. Do you really have the love you had at the beginning? No I'm sad to say your faith without works has proven fruitless at best and a curse at worst.
There is however still hope for your souls. You are under a curse already and if you yet have love in you for me, you can be sure by the Messiah Yeshua's Spirit you are called to holiness in God's Good Gift of His Faith to pursue him in love fearing not your Father's face but when you do pursue Elohim with all strength,mind,and write all his law upon your hearts in place of the ways of your Father's on earth. When will you learn you who pursue unmerited favor of YHWH Elohim without seeking him. When will you quit blasphemy of Yeshua Messiah and his Father? The pre tribulation rapture theories fall when we realize we are already in the last days, then when the time comes for sudden distruction maybe that was the second whoop. Sorry folks they who are alive in Messiah will not proceed those who sleep.
There is however still hope for your souls. You are under a curse already and if you yet have love in you for me, you can be sure by the Messiah Yeshua's Spirit you are called to holiness in God's Good Gift of His Faith to pursue him in love fearing not your Father's face but when you do pursue Elohim with all strength,mind,and write all his law upon your hearts in place of the ways of your Father's on earth. When will you learn you who pursue unmerited favor of YHWH Elohim without seeking him. When will you quit blasphemy of Yeshua Messiah and his Father? The pre tribulation rapture theories fall when we realize we are already in the last days, then when the time comes for sudden distruction maybe that was the second whoop. Sorry folks they who are alive in Messiah will not proceed those who sleep.
1 Peter 2:16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as SERVANTS OF GOD.
This got me thinking. A free man does as he wants. Our hearts are won to love
and righteousness so we want to do good, to help, to serve, to honour our King.
Now when men say this is living under the law, what they are actually saying is
their hearts are sinful and they desire to break the law, not love but hurt, not
build up but tear down.
Ones heart declares where one is as far as law is concerned, in rebellion, ie sin,
so resolved and walking in Christ.
So when people talk so much about grace, they are testifying to failure.
It is like night and day. It is why the law for Paul amplified the rebellion in His
heart because only in love transforming in through Christ could the issues be
dealt with.
This got me thinking. A free man does as he wants. Our hearts are won to love
and righteousness so we want to do good, to help, to serve, to honour our King.
Now when men say this is living under the law, what they are actually saying is
their hearts are sinful and they desire to break the law, not love but hurt, not
build up but tear down.
Ones heart declares where one is as far as law is concerned, in rebellion, ie sin,
so resolved and walking in Christ.
So when people talk so much about grace, they are testifying to failure.
It is like night and day. It is why the law for Paul amplified the rebellion in His
heart because only in love transforming in through Christ could the issues be
dealt with.
F
"Lord, please restore to us the comfort of merit and demerit. Show us that there is at least something we can do. Tell us that at the end of the day there will at least be one redeeming card of our very own. Lord, if it is not too much to ask, send us to bed with a few shreds of self-respect upon which we can congratulate ourselves. But whatever you do, do not preach grace. Give us something to do, anything; but spare us the indignity of this indiscriminate acceptance.” - Robert Farrar Capon
NOT by works of righteousness which we have DONE, but according to his mercy has he saved us.
In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that NOT of yourselves it is the gift of GOD, not of works lest any man should boast.
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
This is the works of the FATHER that you BELIEVE on him whom he has sent.
HE that believeth on the SON is having everlasting LIFE.
We conclude a man is JUSTIFIED by faith without the deeds of the LAW
PLENTEOUS in NUMBER (MANY) will come before me saying...LORD, LORD, did we not do many wonderful WORKS in your name and Jesus will say, DEPART from me you worker of iniquity for I NEVER KNEW YOU.
ARE you so FOOLISH and who has BEWITCHED YOU....HAVE you begun in the spirit and are now made perfect by the flesh (works)
YOUR last line applies to you pal....you have believed a false gospel and are blind to the truth...FAITH ALONE SAVES void of works......and you inability to put JAMES in context proves that you are the one missing and lacking in the spirit pal.
In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that NOT of yourselves it is the gift of GOD, not of works lest any man should boast.
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
This is the works of the FATHER that you BELIEVE on him whom he has sent.
HE that believeth on the SON is having everlasting LIFE.
We conclude a man is JUSTIFIED by faith without the deeds of the LAW
PLENTEOUS in NUMBER (MANY) will come before me saying...LORD, LORD, did we not do many wonderful WORKS in your name and Jesus will say, DEPART from me you worker of iniquity for I NEVER KNEW YOU.
ARE you so FOOLISH and who has BEWITCHED YOU....HAVE you begun in the spirit and are now made perfect by the flesh (works)
YOUR last line applies to you pal....you have believed a false gospel and are blind to the truth...FAITH ALONE SAVES void of works......and you inability to put JAMES in context proves that you are the one missing and lacking in the spirit pal.
I would be cautious of saying who dont have the Spirit as to we dont get to see the fruit of the Spirit through a computer screen.
Yes sometimes words can show whats in a persons heart but words in absence of emotions is hard to know when someone is being patient, kind, or just rude and absent in understanding.
Yes sometimes words can show whats in a persons heart but words in absence of emotions is hard to know when someone is being patient, kind, or just rude and absent in understanding.
What is annoying about this statement is not the statement but why it is being
put here.
FNC - do you know the heaven side of brokeness where God makes you into a new
creation, and does not leave you an empty broken shell? It appears not or else you
would not think talking about follow Jesus is actually about following Jesus.
Must be because you find it so impossible it must not exist.
put here.
FNC - do you know the heaven side of brokeness where God makes you into a new
creation, and does not leave you an empty broken shell? It appears not or else you
would not think talking about follow Jesus is actually about following Jesus.
Must be because you find it so impossible it must not exist.
Here is the difference in the lines of thought....
WE believe
SAVED by FAITH ALONE which justifies before GOD (ROMANS) and can be seen BEFORE MEN (JAMES) in our fruit and or works<---this is biblical
THEY believe
SAVED by faith and works which justifies before God<---NOT BIBLICAL
GALATIANS and PAUL under inspiration calls the latter false, double cursed, no power to save, a different gospel than what he preached and those who believe it are bewitched and foolish
WE believe
SAVED by FAITH ALONE which justifies before GOD (ROMANS) and can be seen BEFORE MEN (JAMES) in our fruit and or works<---this is biblical
THEY believe
SAVED by faith and works which justifies before God<---NOT BIBLICAL
GALATIANS and PAUL under inspiration calls the latter false, double cursed, no power to save, a different gospel than what he preached and those who believe it are bewitched and foolish
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
Unto good works.—Properly, on the basis (or, condition) of good works (as in Galatians 5:13; 1Thessalonians 4:17; 2Timothy 2:14). The good works, in themselves future, being (as the next clause shows) contemplated as already existent in God’s foreknowledge, and as an inseparable characteristic of the regenerate life
Which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.—There is, perhaps, in all Scripture, no stronger expression of the great mystery of God’s predestination; for it is here declared in reference, not only to the original call and justification and regeneration of the soul, but also to the actual good works, in which the free-will and energy of man are most plainly exercised; and in which even here we are said not to be moved, but “to walk” by our own act. In much the same sense St. Paul, in the Epistle to the Philippians (Ephesians 3:12-13), uses the well-known paradox, “Work out your own salvation . . . , for it is God that worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.” Both truths—God’s preordination and man’s responsible freedom—are emphasised. For the reconcilement of the two we must wait till we “know even as we are known.”
Good works may not save us but good works is a indication that one has genuine faith. Free will is never taken from us. We may have the Spirit but it doesn't force us to do anything. It can tell us the right things to do or urge us to do certain things, pray for us when we are at loss of words, help us grow in maturity, help us when we are weak, but ultimately God wants us to invest in him and put him first by our own choice. Obedience as God works in us as we are led by the Spirit. If he was to take our free will that is against the nature of God. We by our own choice can turn from the will God. It wont be easy the Spirit will do all it can to try and not be ignored. But there is a reason sin gets easier because we can end up searing the conscious if not acknowledged.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
Unto good works.—Properly, on the basis (or, condition) of good works (as in Galatians 5:13; 1Thessalonians 4:17; 2Timothy 2:14). The good works, in themselves future, being (as the next clause shows) contemplated as already existent in God’s foreknowledge, and as an inseparable characteristic of the regenerate life
Which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.—There is, perhaps, in all Scripture, no stronger expression of the great mystery of God’s predestination; for it is here declared in reference, not only to the original call and justification and regeneration of the soul, but also to the actual good works, in which the free-will and energy of man are most plainly exercised; and in which even here we are said not to be moved, but “to walk” by our own act. In much the same sense St. Paul, in the Epistle to the Philippians (Ephesians 3:12-13), uses the well-known paradox, “Work out your own salvation . . . , for it is God that worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.” Both truths—God’s preordination and man’s responsible freedom—are emphasised. For the reconcilement of the two we must wait till we “know even as we are known.”
Good works may not save us but good works is a indication that one has genuine faith. Free will is never taken from us. We may have the Spirit but it doesn't force us to do anything. It can tell us the right things to do or urge us to do certain things, pray for us when we are at loss of words, help us grow in maturity, help us when we are weak, but ultimately God wants us to invest in him and put him first by our own choice. Obedience as God works in us as we are led by the Spirit. If he was to take our free will that is against the nature of God. We by our own choice can turn from the will God. It wont be easy the Spirit will do all it can to try and not be ignored. But there is a reason sin gets easier because we can end up searing the conscious if not acknowledged.
I believe that the "good works" are the good works that God has prepared for us to walk in - which are what Christ has done in His dying on the cross and in His resurrection and now we live by His life inside of us as we get our minds renewed to the finished work of Christ.
We have died with Christ on the cross and now we too have risen to newness of life in His resurrection.
These "good works" are not something we do independently of Christ. They are a result of His good works that have already been accomplished and is now being manifested outwardly in us the branches. He is the true Vine. He bears His fruit on us the branches.
Get that backwards and we create a religion of works that tries to mimic the life of God by what we do or don't do. That is called works-righteousness and it is anti-Christ in it's belief system.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
We have died with Christ on the cross and now we too have risen to newness of life in His resurrection.
These "good works" are not something we do independently of Christ. They are a result of His good works that have already been accomplished and is now being manifested outwardly in us the branches. He is the true Vine. He bears His fruit on us the branches.
Get that backwards and we create a religion of works that tries to mimic the life of God by what we do or don't do. That is called works-righteousness and it is anti-Christ in it's belief system.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
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We have never said nor implied that the fruit or works are not a RESULT of faith.....EVEN creation backs our stance....
a. A tree cannot bear unless it has SPROUTED (SALVATION/BORN AGAIN) and had a period of GROWTH and MATURITY....
b. The same is true of all GENUINE believers....
THEY ARE born AGAIN of the spirit<---SALVATION, JUSTIFICATION, SEALED and SANCTIFIED in CHRIST positionally
ONE cannot UNDERSTAND and or APPLY the word without a SPIRITUAL BIRTH FIRST
ONCE born again we can GROW, MATURE and APPLY the SPIRITUAL WORD which PRODUCES FRUIT/WORKS
THE works do NOT save us and or KEEP US SAVED as that is a once for ALL ACT OF FAITH.......again...we have ALWAYS said that the works or fruit are the RESULT of genuine saving faith.....it is not that difficult to grasp....and it is biblical
a. A tree cannot bear unless it has SPROUTED (SALVATION/BORN AGAIN) and had a period of GROWTH and MATURITY....
b. The same is true of all GENUINE believers....
THEY ARE born AGAIN of the spirit<---SALVATION, JUSTIFICATION, SEALED and SANCTIFIED in CHRIST positionally
ONE cannot UNDERSTAND and or APPLY the word without a SPIRITUAL BIRTH FIRST
ONCE born again we can GROW, MATURE and APPLY the SPIRITUAL WORD which PRODUCES FRUIT/WORKS
THE works do NOT save us and or KEEP US SAVED as that is a once for ALL ACT OF FAITH.......again...we have ALWAYS said that the works or fruit are the RESULT of genuine saving faith.....it is not that difficult to grasp....and it is biblical
Another problem I see is that we qualify and quantify works.....
Look....JESUS said....Even a CUP of COLD water in his name is a work of righteousness and will not go unnoticed and or unrewarded......a simple act of kindness in the name of JESUS is a work of righteousness..............We do not have to sacrifice our only son or build an ARK to be doing works of righteousness......
Look....JESUS said....Even a CUP of COLD water in his name is a work of righteousness and will not go unnoticed and or unrewarded......a simple act of kindness in the name of JESUS is a work of righteousness..............We do not have to sacrifice our only son or build an ARK to be doing works of righteousness......
AMEN...just made this quote in another thread this way....
The thing missed by the "workers for" is simple.....WE AS SINFUL MEN cannot do anything that pleases GOD.....WE AS A LIVING sacrifice allow CHRIST to work thru us...IT IS JESUS doing the works...that is why works do not save and or keep saved....
HE IS THE ONE DOING THE WORK THRU US.......and exactly why OUR WORKS do no facilitate and or keep salvation
The thing missed by the "workers for" is simple.....WE AS SINFUL MEN cannot do anything that pleases GOD.....WE AS A LIVING sacrifice allow CHRIST to work thru us...IT IS JESUS doing the works...that is why works do not save and or keep saved....
HE IS THE ONE DOING THE WORK THRU US.......and exactly why OUR WORKS do no facilitate and or keep salvation
Faith is not a one time thing. Salvation is a faith to faith action. Have you ever grown weak in faith? Many have and backslided or fell away. There is a reason we are told to persevere in faith for the hope we have in Christ.
I agree with you until the point you believe we are secured and nothing we of ourselves can do to deny Christ. Our faith is like a muscle, if we dont invest in it, it will grow weak.
We are told not abiding in the vine or deliberate sin can make us wither and become useless.
Why else would God warn us that names can be blotted out of the book of life. After all, the names got put there in the first place.
Our warn the revelation church's to repent and get back right with God.
Why do OSAS believers filter every scripture through Ephesians but instead see how all scripture fits together to say the same message.
We can ignore all the warnings and falling away scriptures to believers but that doesn't make them go away.
I agree with you until the point you believe we are secured and nothing we of ourselves can do to deny Christ. Our faith is like a muscle, if we dont invest in it, it will grow weak.
We are told not abiding in the vine or deliberate sin can make us wither and become useless.
Why else would God warn us that names can be blotted out of the book of life. After all, the names got put there in the first place.
Our warn the revelation church's to repent and get back right with God.
Why do OSAS believers filter every scripture through Ephesians but instead see how all scripture fits together to say the same message.
We can ignore all the warnings and falling away scriptures to believers but that doesn't make them go away.
You can believe that if you so chose....brother...VERB TENSE proves eternal security<--a present continuing result from a past COMPLETED ACTION.....not to mention all the verses that must be chunked under the rug....
HE that began a good work will COMPLETE it unto the day of Christ (redemption)
All that the FATHER has given me I WILL LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up the last day.
If WE BELIEVE NOT (AFTER BELIEF) HE ABIDES faithful and CANNOT DENY HIMSELF
WE ARE in the hand of the HEAVENLY FATHER, in the HAND of CHRIST and SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE
WHATSOEVER GOD DOES, it is EVERLASTING
NOTHING can separate us from the love of GOD
WE are justified by the FAITH OF Christ
I will never leave thee or forsake thee
and on and on and on.....
There are too many verses in context, combined with VERB TENSE, that proves eternal security after belief....there are no verses in context that teach that once a believer believes he can lose the eternal security that is found in Christ...none!
NO ONE will ever shake my faith on this.....
HE that began a good work will COMPLETE it unto the day of Christ (redemption)
All that the FATHER has given me I WILL LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up the last day.
If WE BELIEVE NOT (AFTER BELIEF) HE ABIDES faithful and CANNOT DENY HIMSELF
WE ARE in the hand of the HEAVENLY FATHER, in the HAND of CHRIST and SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE
WHATSOEVER GOD DOES, it is EVERLASTING
NOTHING can separate us from the love of GOD
WE are justified by the FAITH OF Christ
I will never leave thee or forsake thee
and on and on and on.....
There are too many verses in context, combined with VERB TENSE, that proves eternal security after belief....there are no verses in context that teach that once a believer believes he can lose the eternal security that is found in Christ...none!
NO ONE will ever shake my faith on this.....
1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
I presume that you believe "depart from the faith" means that born again believers depart from saving faith in Christ and lose their salvation. The words "the faith" (Gr. tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.
This does not mean that genuine born again believers lose their salvation. I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic faith was evidenced as the Roman Catholic church began to come into existence in the early 4th century. The Roman Catholic church forbids it's clergy to marry. This same church has many demonic doctrines such as transubstantiation, purgatory, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity etc..
I presume that you believe "depart from the faith" means that born again believers depart from saving faith in Christ and lose their salvation. The words "the faith" (Gr. tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.
This does not mean that genuine born again believers lose their salvation. I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic faith was evidenced as the Roman Catholic church began to come into existence in the early 4th century. The Roman Catholic church forbids it's clergy to marry. This same church has many demonic doctrines such as transubstantiation, purgatory, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity etc..
