Mental illness, demons and the BIBLE

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sevenseas

Guest
#41
Christians need to understand that not everything is a demon. I appreciate your post Angela.

Blaming everything on the devil, is a medieval attitude that needs to be left on the torture rack of that era. Saying Jesus healed everyone, is absolutely true but please show me where in scripture we are told that everyone is healed when we pray for them?
I won't be holding my breath.

Why is it so hard to actually just be honest and admit that no matter how much a person prays sometimes, they are not healed? There is not shame in that at all. The shame, if you ask me, is presenting an unbiblical view and saying everyone can be healed. The Bible never says that. It does say to pray; to go to the elders and ask them to pray as well.

I think we need to remember that people with mental disorders were often branded demonized or a witch or whatever.

Discernment and an humble attitude before God with the desire for truth is missing far too often.
 
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Miri

Guest
#42
This whole issue is so complex that I don't think any Christins should jump
to conclusions and immediately point to demons.

Just as there are bilogical ailments of the body, there are biological ailments of
the brain. Not to mention all sorts of chemical and hormonal imbalances.

My elderly aunt has had water infections on occasions, where she hallicinates there
are spiders and animals in the house! A course of antibiotics and four days later
the hallucinations are gone.

Something as simple as a high temperature can cause a person to hallucinate.

I would not entirely discount the possibiiity that some issues are demonic though.
Granted there are some people who need setting free, but don't we all!

I actually think it's more likey that so called sane people we meet are more likely to
be demon possessed. I've met some!

There was one incident where a new woman started at my place of work. She was in
a different office to me. The first time I saw her, was in our staff room. I walked in to
eat my lunch and she was sat there eating her's. She was dressed entirely in
black with black lipstick. That didn't bother me some people just like black, but
as I walked past her I got this awful gut wrenching sensation of something
very wrong. She must have sensed something as well as she suddenly
stared at me with this glaring strange look on her face. It was like we
were total opposites yet all we had done was go past each other, we hadnt even
spoken to each other.

Suddenly she jumped up and ran out of the room, I was convinced there was something
demonic going on. The next day she just left and never came back.


In another incident I was in a church service where the gospel was being preached.
At the end was an alter call for anyone who wanted to receive Jesus.

This Methodist minister who was visiting, jumped up and ran to the front to
receive Jesus! But he was sort of grimacing and almost snarling with this
distorted look on his face as he went to the front, at was almost as if something
was trying to stop him. He prayed for forgiveness and immediately there was a
calm over him.

So it's not necessarily the mad ones you have to watch out for!
 
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sevenseas

Guest
#43
So it all ties in. Healing is real and it's promised. I believe in healing because it's in the Bible. Those here who shared that they don't believe in healing that is up to you guys. You need to be thoroughly convinced in your own minds so I'm not here to convince anyone. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. I'm happy to share the truth with anyone who reads here on CC. We share the truth in love regardless whether or not anyone agrees with us.
If you are thoroughly convinced in your own mind by the Holy Spirit you will not be moved. That is the goal.
Excuse me, but I don't think this is a fair response.

People have said they do believe in healing, myself being one of those people, but not on demand.

We are not Jesus.

Does it not indicate something missing in the equation for people to keep saying part of the atonement is healing, when Jesus healed BEFORE He died? He did not have to die to heal...yet, He had to die for our sins to be forgiven.

It seems to me this is a major point that is conveniently overlooked.

I would like to see that addressed. That, and the fact that people were healed in the Old Testament, yet, we know that the blood of bulls and rams could not actually forgive sins. ONLY the blood of Christ does that.

So how about it? Someone who thinks healing is for everyone (even though most are not healed) want to address that?
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#44
Excuse me, but I don't think this is a fair response.

People have said they do believe in healing, myself being one of those people, but not on demand.

We are not Jesus.

Does it not indicate something missing in the equation for people to keep saying part of the atonement is healing, when Jesus healed BEFORE He died? He did not have to die to heal...yet, He had to die for our sins to be forgiven.

It seems to me this is a major point that is conveniently overlooked.

I would like to see that addressed. That, and the fact that people were healed in the Old Testament, yet, we know that the blood of bulls and rams could not actually forgive sins. ONLY the blood of Christ does that.

So how about it? Someone who thinks healing is for everyone (even though most are not healed) want to address that?

Hi Sevenseas, I don't have answers for you as to why one individual didn't get healed and why another person did get healed. I'm not privy to the private hearts and lives of people the way God is. But I can always rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. It's letting God be God to me.

In this life we are not going to have answers that satisfy our human need to know. I've discovered my responsibility is to believe regardless of what the world shows or says or what I may feel at a given time in life.

I've found part of each of the answers comes from not looking to the right or to the left but looking to Jesus who is above all circumstances. Once we start looking to the right or left we are open to doubt. And the Bible says believe and don't doubt. So I encourage myself and others to do what the Bible says regardless of how human reason fights that kind of faith. God is pleased with faith and He seeks us to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

For me that is what it comes down to. Having the healing Jesus provided for us in the atonement. I want all that He has died to give me. It's not demanding from Jesus, it's believing Him for what He has already promised me. So if you don't believe this sevenseas I can't convince you nor would I want to. It's a faith issue and that is a Holy Spirit issue.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#45
If you are talking about personality disorders, or Axis II mental illness, yes, how you grew up, how much you were abused, and/or "spoiled" as we used to say, has a influence on developing this kind of illness. Personality Disorders result from a maladaptive environment.

"A personality disorder is a type of mental disorder in which you have a rigid and unhealthy pattern of thinking, functioning and behaving. A person with a personality disorder has trouble perceiving and relating to situations and people. This causes significant problems and limitations in relationships, social activities, work and school.
In some cases, you may not realize that you have a personality disorder because your way of thinking and behaving seems natural to you. And you may blame others for the challenges you face.
Personality disorders usually begin in the teenage years or early adulthood. There are many types of personality disorders. Some types may become less obvious throughout middle age."

Personality disorders Overview - Mayo Clinic

Axis I Disorders like Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia and Depression with Psychosis are considered "clinical" disorders, although since the DSM-5 came out, this is also changing the way researchers and those who treat people with mental illnesses think about mental illness.

Schizophrenia is definitely inherited, and so is Bipolar Disorder. Many of the members of my group talk about the other members of their family, particularly parents who have the same disease. And sadly, if the parents didn't get treatment, the children may end up with more than just an expressed and inherited disease. They may also develop anxiety, depression, OCD and other conditions that have a lot to do with environment, bu could also be genetically based. .

Like the physical illness I have, I have not met anyone with a mental illness that was cured, Christian or not. This is not lack of unbelief, but rather, that mental illness is real, and not caused by demons. Thus, the easy way of casting out demons is not available to the majority of people with mental illness. The people I know take their meds, they get enough sleep, avoid stress, and have varying levels of being able to cope. Some people work full time, others part time, and the ones who are really bad cannot work at all.

And, as Christians, they are saved! If they are not Christians, then, obviously, they are not saved. I pray for each person in my group, that God will help them if they are saved, and for those who do not know Christ, that God would save them. That is my real motive behind me organizing thiis group, but in the meantime, the group cares, encourages, shares with each other. It is a remarkably close knit group. I had one rabid Buddhist, but he could not find it in his heart to forgive anyone. He did not even follow his own faith, and have compassion on others. He left the group in a huff, and when he was gone, I realized how much he was damaging the group, and members came out of the wood work to post when he wasn't there to mock them.

He was also beaten horribly by an adopted father when he was a pre-schooler and after. That is also why he did not believe in God. I had hoped for reconciliation, and prayed that way, but that is in God's hands. If ever there was a candidate for being demon possessed, it was him! But I will leave it to God to determine his end.

Anyway, sometimes we have to face the reality of what mental illnesses are. They are a condition where the brain has an illness, either from genetics or a bad environment, or both!
There are demons as much as there is mental illness.

Hubby's first wife had both. She is bipolar, at the very least, but when they were married she was delivered of a demon too. He saw it happened, and he's not one of those guys that believes everyone has a demon. (She's the only one he ever saw be delivered.) She became noticeably less angry all the time -- softer, but not in a coming off either end of the disorder kind of softer -- and yet she was still bipolar.

Unfortunately, she was quite selfish, and she let room in for Legend to return. THEN she became something not quite under "angry" anymore. She was downright dangerous. Runaway dangerous.

But there is both. I just don't know the difference. Honestly? I can't really clearly define either too.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#46
Christians need to understand that not everything is a demon. I appreciate your post Angela.

Blaming everything on the devil, is a medieval attitude that needs to be left on the torture rack of that era. Saying Jesus healed everyone, is absolutely true but please show me where in scripture we are told that everyone is healed when we pray for them?
I won't be holding my breath.

Why is it so hard to actually just be honest and admit that no matter how much a person prays sometimes, they are not healed? There is not shame in that at all. The shame, if you ask me, is presenting an unbiblical view and saying everyone can be healed. The Bible never says that. It does say to pray; to go to the elders and ask them to pray as well.

I think we need to remember that people with mental disorders were often branded demonized or a witch or whatever.

Discernment and an humble attitude before God with the desire for truth is missing far too often.
Actually, "Jesus healed everyone" isn't really true. There was a pool that everyone went to to be healed. Jesus went there. One guy was trying to get in, but was too slow, so he was stuck never getting in. Jesus healed him.

That means Jesus did not heal everyone in the pool trying to be healed. The story is in Luke the physicians's account. Luke, being a physician, really investigated the stories of Jesus' healing. Had Jesus healed everyone, that would have been Luke's lead story.
 
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#47
We all have opinions here, but only God knows the absolute truth. From my experiences including much bible study I do not believe a person with a mental disorder that has no definite physical malfunction, can have that disorder without demonic influence. If we have a breakdown of the human body then that can affect the mind for sure, however if the body has no breakdown then we are dealing only with the mind and that is a realm that Satan can dominate. Paul called Satan the god of this world, and Jesus called Satan the Ruler of this world. Satan is here to destroy humans and that usually occurs through the mind, so I cannot see humans having mental problems without physical malfunctions apart from demonic influence.
 
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#48
Hi Dep: The bible tells us that Jesus healed every person that came to him for healing, of course Jesus did not heal every sick person during His time on earth. A Christian can be healed, it has happened to me, however it is not something that we can cause to happen when we want. Why God will heal sometimes and not others is the same as why does God deliver sometimes and other times we have to go through it.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,316
1,726
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#49
I doubt that most of those commenting about demon possession here would recognize a demon possessed standing in front of them. I promise you it's not that mentally ill person that you know.

I don't feel like rehashing this discussion again. I have Epilepsy. What causes it cannot be pinpointed. The seizures that I have can last for a few minutes to hours. I praise God every day for the neurologist that he led me to, and for the medications that have controlled my seizure activity for even a few weeks. It's been over two years since my last seizure and the medication that God has provided this time has been side effect free.

I also suffered with depression cycles for many years. These are caused by my body's inability to regulate serotonin. Thirty years ago I was prescribed a medication that minimizes the occurrence of these cycles. In fact it has been almost three years since the last one. My current seizure medication doesn't effect the level of the depression medication. God has been so wonderful to me.

If you are here reading this discussion, and you have ANY mental illness, please seek qualified medical care. If you are on a mental health medication, please discuss any questions that you have with your mental health provider. God has provided you both the medication and mental health provider. Participate in your treatment plan.

My Grandmother thought that my aunt's Epilepsy was demon caused when she had her first seizure at two years old. When all the preachers and healers failed to cast out may aunt's demons, my grandmother took her to a country doctor. Medication reduced the frequency of my aunt's seizures to the point where she was able to complete high school, got married, and with her husband, ran a successful business. She died at 79. She still had a seizure every morning when she got out of bed.
 
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sevenseas

Guest
#50
Actually, "Jesus healed everyone" isn't really true. There was a pool that everyone went to to be healed. Jesus went there. One guy was trying to get in, but was too slow, so he was stuck never getting in. Jesus healed him.

That means Jesus did not heal everyone in the pool trying to be healed. The story is in Luke the physicians's account. Luke, being a physician, really investigated the stories of Jesus' healing. Had Jesus healed everyone, that would have been Luke's lead story.
LOL! fair enough Lynn

let me rephrase

Jesus healed everyone he healed. He never missed and He never attempted a healing that didn't 'take'

actually, while we are on that story, it is of note, that Jesus did NOT do a general healing of everyone
 
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sevenseas

Guest
#51
Hi Sevenseas, I don't have answers for you as to why one individual didn't get healed and why another person did get healed. I'm not privy to the private hearts and lives of people the way God is. But I can always rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. It's letting God be God to me.

In this life we are not going to have answers that satisfy our human need to know. I've discovered my responsibility is to believe regardless of what the world shows or says or what I may feel at a given time in life.

I've found part of each of the answers comes from not looking to the right or to the left but looking to Jesus who is above all circumstances. Once we start looking to the right or left we are open to doubt. And the Bible says believe and don't doubt. So I encourage myself and others to do what the Bible says regardless of how human reason fights that kind of faith. God is pleased with faith and He seeks us to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

For me that is what it comes down to. Having the healing Jesus provided for us in the atonement. I want all that He has died to give me. It's not demanding from Jesus, it's believing Him for what He has already promised me. So if you don't believe this sevenseas I can't convince you nor would I want to. It's a faith issue and that is a Holy Spirit issue.
but Joanie? I'm not looking for that answer and I didn't ask that question.

I asked a question based on what the Bible states; what scripture says about God, healing, Jesus, the atonement and so on

that does not require gut wrenching emotional heart searching and actually we can be privy to some of what is in God's heart as He has revealed Himself through Jesus

the Bible is not based on our emotions, nor should we go looking for answers to honest questions to determine those answers by subjective criteria

maybe you could actually respond to what I asked? I think I defined the question in a straightforward manner

you don't know. I may well have more faith in God's healing power than you do on any given day; then again I may not

but I do have complete faith that we cannot go wrong if we stick to what scripture actually states and we do not add to it nor try to examine it under the microscope of human experience

[FONT=&quot]So if you don't believe this sevenseas I can't convince you nor would I want to. It's a faith issue and that is a Holy Spirit issue. [/FONT]
this, is a typical response from either a word of faith position, or someone who thinks that faith, the quality of faith, produces the results

this is not acceptable, and it does not describe me at all. have you been paying attention? why did Jesus die? apparently God never put restraints on healing BEFORE Jesus died. healings took place in the old testament before Jesus even had a physical birth

I will ask hard questions and real questions and I don't accept answers that try to put the blame on the person asking them

you seem like a nice person; I think you are, but you have completely skirted my very serious question
 
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Sep 3, 2016
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#52
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8:6-8

1. What does it mean to be "carnally minded"?

2. What does it means to be "spiritually minded"?

3. Paul uses the terms, "the flesh" or "in the flesh," quite often. What does he mean?

Being "carnally minded" is placing one's faith in something other than Christ and the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus.

Being "spiritually minded" is what one must be to successfully "walk after the Spirit." It simply means placing one's Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross, excluding all else, and not allowing anything to take the place of the Cross.

Paul uses the terms, "the flesh" or "in the flesh," quite often. What does he mean? He is speaking of a person's own natural ability, our natural strength, our own efforts, in other words, what we as human being can do.

We cannot do anything within our own strength and power that will gain anything with the Lord, no matter how noble our efforts might be. In other words, the Lord cannot accept our efforts, our ability, our personal power, etc. So to have what we must receive from the Lord, that is, if we are to live as we ought to live, then we will have to depend totally, and I mean totally, on Christ and what Christ has done for us at the Cross.

To help us understand it better, anything we try to do, any way we attempt to go, any effort we attempt to make, other than by Faith in Christ and the Cross, is labeled by the Holy Spirit as "the flesh," which is displeasing to God, and which will never bring victory.

...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23



 
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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
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#53
but Joanie? I'm not looking for that answer and I didn't ask that question.

I asked a question based on what the Bible states; what scripture says about God, healing, Jesus, the atonement and so on

that does not require gut wrenching emotional heart searching and actually we can be privy to some of what is in God's heart as He has revealed Himself through Jesus

the Bible is not based on our emotions, nor should we go looking for answers to honest questions to determine those answers by subjective criteria

maybe you could actually respond to what I asked? I think I defined the question in a straightforward manner

you don't know. I may well have more faith in God's healing power than you do on any given day; then again I may not

but I do have complete faith that we cannot go wrong if we stick to what scripture actually states and we do not add to it nor try to examine it under the microscope of human experience



this, is a typical response from either a word of faith position, or someone who thinks that faith, the quality of faith, produces the results

this is not acceptable, and it does not describe me at all. have you been paying attention? why did Jesus die? apparently God never put restraints on healing BEFORE Jesus died. healings took place in the old testament before Jesus even had a physical birth

I will ask hard questions and real questions and I don't accept answers that try to put the blame on the person asking them

you seem like a nice person; I think you are, but you have completely skirted my very serious question


Sevenseas, I haven't skirted the question but answered you as it was given to me from the Bible. It's how I believe and live my Christian life. I already addressed that in the previous posts. Blame was not put on anyone in my posts. I believe the Bible to say by His stripes we are healed. That is what I believe. If you and others don't believe that includes healing today., you are free to do so. You're not alone and neither am I. So we can't go by how many people believe the same as we do., we have to go on what the Bible says and the Holy Spirit has shown us.

Faith in Christ and His love for me as far as I'm concerned answers the hard questions. While I wait for healing or for leading in areas of my life, His love holds me up. It's the secret place of the Most High for me. Many hard questions will come up in our life time. I believe there is a place in God where we go when our human mind is not content and gets attacked.

Going there gives peace and comfort and sustaining power to get up and go again because He changes our minds while we ARE there. He teaches us and shows us He will never leave us or forsake us. The Holy Spirit ministers to our spirits that we ARE the sons of God. We are given what Christians have called blessed assurance Jesus is mine.

So I'll post those verses again for you. Read them and apply healing for today and dare to believe by faith that Jesus has paid for our healing. Now we walk by faith not by sight., and take a hold of those things already "attained" for us by Christ. That's what I personally am striving to do. "progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His person more strongly and more clearly" every day. And to know the power outflowing from His resurrection which the Holy Spirit exerts over believers.

It is not an easy thing to do because it is depleting the avenue of our flesh (minds) to not apply the suffering in the world and instead to apply His promises regardless of what we see to our right side and to our left sides. It's at first a major fight to begin to learn how to put more merit on what the Bible says vs what our feelings and our eyes and our friends who are as it were screaming at us with human common sense reasoning.

Unless there is a constant reminder and application of the truths and promises. (be ye being filled with the Holy Spirit) Because for sure the enemy will use the world and the flesh to keep our minds on ours and other people's current situations and not on the promises. As I shared the other day., since being baptized in the Holy Spirit my Christian walk has changed drastically.

Philippians 3:10-14
[SUP]10 [/SUP][For my determined purpose is] that I may know Him [that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly], and that I may in that same way come to know the power outflowing from His resurrection [[SUP][a][/SUP]which it exerts over believers], and that I may so share His sufferings as to be continually transformed [in spirit into His likeness even] to His death, [in the hope]
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]That if possible I may attain to the [[SUP][b][/SUP]spiritual and moral] resurrection [that lifts me] out from among the dead [even while in the body].
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Not that I have now attained [this ideal], or have already been made perfect, but I press on to lay hold of (grasp) and make my own, that for which Christ Jesus (the Messiah) has laid hold of me and made me His own.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]I do not consider, brethren, that I have captured and made it my own [yet]; but one thing I do [it is my one aspiration]: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]I press on toward the goal to win the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.


And the healing verses to meditate on;

Surely He has borne our griefs (sicknesses, weaknesses, and distresses) and carried our sorrows and pains [of punishment], yet we [ignorantly] considered Him stricken, smitten, and afflicted by God [as if with leprosy]. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement [needful to obtain] peace and well-being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes [that wounded] Him we are healed and made whole.
— Isaiah 53:4–5 (AMP)
But He was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed.
— Isaiah 53:5 (NLT)
… who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.
— 1 Peter 2:24
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
— Romans 8:11
He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
— Romans 8:32
Suddenly, a man with leprosy approached Him and knelt before Him. “Lord,” the man said, “if You are willing, You can heal me and make me clean.” Jesus reached out and touched him. “I am willing,” He said. “Be healed!” And instantly the leprosy disappeared.
— Matthew 8:2–3 (NLT)
“Lord, help!” they cried in their trouble, and He saved them from their distress. He sent out His word and healed them, snatching them from the door of death.
— Psalm 107:19–20 (NLT)
For He will rescue you from every trap and protect you from deadly disease.
— Psalm 91:3 (NLT)
He also brought them out with silver and gold, and there was none feeble among His tribes.
— Psalm 105:37
Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.
— 3 John 1:2 (NASB)
“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have [it] more abundantly.”
— John 10:10
Do not be afraid of the terrors of the night, nor the arrow that flies in the day. Do not dread the disease that stalks in darkness, nor the disaster that strikes at midday. Though a thousand fall at your side, though ten thousand are dying around you, these evils will not touch you.
— Psalm 91:5–7 (NLT)
With long life I will satisfy him, and show him My salvation.
— Psalm 91:16
“…I am the Lord who heals you.”
— Exodus 15:26
“I will give you back your health and heal your wounds,” says the Lord.
— Jeremiah 30:17 (NLT)
Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases.
— Psalm 103:2–3
My son, give attention to my words; incline your ear to my sayings. Do not let them depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart; for they [are] life to those who find them, and health to all their flesh.
— Proverbs 4:20-22
Everyone Who Came To Jesus Was Healed

And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.
— Matthew 4:23
News about Him spread as far as Syria, and people soon began bringing to Him all who were sick. And whatever their sickness or disease, or if they were demon-possessed or epileptic or paralyzed—He healed them all.
— Matthew 4:24 (NLT)
When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” Jesus said to him, “I will go and heal him.”
— Matthew 8: 5–7 (NIV)
When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: “He Himself took our infirmities and bore [our] sicknesses.”
— Matthew 8:16–17
…Then Jesus turned to the paralyzed man and said, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and go home!” And the man jumped up and went home!
— Matthew 9:6–7 (NLT)
Then great multitudes came to Him, having with them [the] lame, blind, mute, maimed, and many others; and they laid them down at Jesus’ feet, and He healed them.
— Matthew 15:30
Jesus had compassion on them and touched their eyes. Immediately they received their sight and followed Him.
— Matthew 20:34 (NIV)
And He entered the synagogue again, and a man was there who had a withered hand. So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. And He said to the man who had the withered hand, “Step forward.” Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent. And when He had looked around at them with anger, being grieved by the hardness of their hearts, He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched [it] out, and his hand was restored as whole as the other.
— Mark 3:1–5
A woman in the crowd had suffered for twelve years with constant bleeding. She had suffered a great deal from many doctors, and over the years she had spent everything she had to pay them, but she had gotten no better. In fact, she had gotten worse. She had heard about Jesus, so she came up behind Him through the crowd and touched His robe. For she thought to herself, “If I can just touch His robe, I will be healed.” Immediately the bleeding stopped, and she could feel in her body that she had been healed of her terrible condition.
— Mark 5:25–29 (NLT)
Jesus stopped and said, “Call him.” So they called to the blind man, “Cheer up! On your feet! He’s calling you.” Throwing his cloak aside, he jumped to his feet and came to Jesus. “What do you want Me to do for you?” Jesus asked him. The blind man said, “Rabbi, I want to see.” “Go,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you.” Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
— Mark 10:49–52 (NIV)
When the sun was setting, all those who had any that were sick with various diseases brought them to Him; and He laid His hands on every one of them and healed them.
— Luke 4:40
And the whole multitude sought to touch Him, for power went out from Him and healed [them] all.
— Luke 6:19
A funeral procession was coming out as He approached the village gate. The young man who had died was a widow’s only son, and a large crowd from the village was with her. When the Lord saw her, His heart overflowed with compassion. “Don’t cry!” He said. Then He walked over to the coffin and touched it, and the bearers stopped. “Young man,” He said, “I tell you, get up.” Then the dead boy sat up and began to talk! And Jesus gave him back to his mother.
— Luke 7:12–15 (NLT)
And a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. When Jesus saw her, He called her forward and said to her, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity.” Then He put His hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
— Luke 13:11–13 (NIV)
One of the men lying there had been sick for thirty-eight years. When Jesus saw him and knew he had been ill for a long time, He asked him, “Would you like to get well?” “I can’t, sir,” the sick man said, “for I have no one to put me into the pool when the water bubbles up. Someone else always gets there ahead of me.” Jesus told him, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and walk!” Instantly, the man was healed! He rolled up his sleeping mat and began walking!
— John 5:5–9 (NLT)
“…how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”
— Acts 10:38
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#54
I agree with you that guilt is unhealthy this is a crucial point to my belief that living as a failure("sinner") because we as Christians are programmed to fail by the most common Christian teaching of unconditional forgiveness is very bad and effects us on more than one level,unless a person is completely brainwashed to believe that they can do absolutely nothing wrong due to unconditional forgiveness they will have guilt if only on a subconscious level.
I believe that if we repent, God will always forgive us...so I guess repentance would be the condition for forgiveness?

Still reading thread, but felt moved to respond to this post.
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#55
Forgiveness is for the guilty. Wicked people don't feel guilty anymore because pride has blinded them that they can't see the overflowing grace of God.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#56
Wow finally finished reading.

There is a lot of good posts and I appreciate and thank you all for contributing to the discussion.

Some of you are braver than i am about opening up about your personal lives and struggles.

This topic has been upon my mind because my father was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. He died last March and I have NOT lived with him since my mom divorced him when I as 8. He tried to kill my younger brothers and my mom got in the way. She ended up in the hospital with broken ribs.

I don't really want to go more personal on an online intenet open forum.

Suffice to say, God is still helping me heal from scars I didn't even realize I had.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#57
Found this article worth reading:

https://www.cmf.org.uk/resources/publications/content/?context=article&id=619

Here is an excerpt:

Demon possession and mental illness: Conclusions

Demon possession and mental illness, then, are not simply alternative diagnoses to be offered when a person presents with deliberate self harm or violent behaviour, although they may need to be distinguished in such circumstances, whether by spiritual discernment or the application of basic psychiatric knowledge.

It would seem reasonable to argue that demon possession may be an aetiological factor in some cases of mental illness, but it may also be an aetiological factor in some non-psychiatric conditions, and in other cases it may be encountered in the absence of psychiatric or medical disorder.

Furthermore, demon possession is essentially a spiritual problem, but mental illness is a multifactorial affair, in which spiritual, social, psychological and physical factors may all play an aetioIogical role. The relationship between these concepts is therefore complex. Differential diagnostic skills may have a part to play in offering help to those whose problems could be of demonic or medical/psychiatric origin. However, spiritual discernment is of at least equal, if not greater, importance in such matters.
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#58
That's very sad news. Sorry to hear about your father Ariel. God be with you in this hard times. Mental illness sometimes is genetic but sometimes it is acquired through the bad choices one makes like taking drugs and drinking alcohol. This is what the Bible says that sin always have consequences. To sin is to self destruct because we become more open to the attacks of demons.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#59
but Joanie? I'm not looking for that answer and I didn't ask that question.

I asked a question based on what the Bible states; what scripture says about God, healing, Jesus, the atonement and so on

that does not require gut wrenching emotional heart searching and actually we can be privy to some of what is in God's heart as He has revealed Himself through Jesus

the Bible is not based on our emotions, nor should we go looking for answers to honest questions to determine those answers by subjective criteria

maybe you could actually respond to what I asked? I think I defined the question in a straightforward manner

you don't know. I may well have more faith in God's healing power than you do on any given day; then again I may not

but I do have complete faith that we cannot go wrong if we stick to what scripture actually states and we do not add to it nor try to examine it under the microscope of human experience



this, is a typical response from either a word of faith position, or someone who thinks that faith, the quality of faith, produces the results

this is not acceptable, and it does not describe me at all. have you been paying attention? why did Jesus die? apparently God never put restraints on healing BEFORE Jesus died. healings took place in the old testament before Jesus even had a physical birth

I will ask hard questions and real questions and I don't accept answers that try to put the blame on the person asking them

you seem like a nice person; I think you are, but you have completely skirted my very serious question
I'm chuckling here. You probably don't remember this, but when you joined this site (which now feels like a long time ago), I was in this very conversation you are now having with JoanieMarie, and you kind of thought I was going off on her.

This is it. This is what happens every time. It circles something like this:
-- Jesus heals everyone.
-- No one else on here believes Jesus heals at all, but the Holy Spirit showed me that Jesus heals everyone who believes.
-- Something is wrong with you, if you do not believe this/that Jesus can heal/that Jesus does heal.
-- Something is wrong with everyone because I know Jesus heals everyone.
-- I'm not special for knowing that Jesus heals everyone. You will get there yourself when you believe right, but...
-- Jesus heals everyone.

There really is no outside that circle. I've seen many try to break the circle long enough that she could answer a question outside that circle, but then we are all downers/nonbelievers/depressing/etc. because we do not know that Jesus heals everyone. We don't think Jesus heals anyone.

And this is right about the time when you and I first met, and you thought I was being tough on her.

I tried to tell you then. Maybe you can understand now. She promotes Joseph Prince. It's a bad gospel. It is preparing for the big game by psyche yourself up enough that it can happen, if you just believe hard enough, and that is the only purpose of it -- to be healed and get what you want out of God. And when honestly faced, it does not work. BUT my fear is that if she keeps preaching this some babe in Christ is going to think it's the gospel, try to get the healing, and when that fails, blames God instead of the false gospel being received.

I hope you can reach her when so many others have tried.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#60
Wow finally finished reading.

There is a lot of good posts and I appreciate and thank you all for contributing to the discussion.

Some of you are braver than i am about opening up about your personal lives and struggles.

This topic has been upon my mind because my father was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. He died last March and I have NOT lived with him since my mom divorced him when I as 8. He tried to kill my younger brothers and my mom got in the way. She ended up in the hospital with broken ribs.

I don't really want to go more personal on an online intenet open forum.

Suffice to say, God is still helping me heal from scars I didn't even realize I had.
Very hard to separate the disease from the man. (Dad has OCD. Never figured that out until about five years ago, and just living with him changed us all in one way or another.)