Mental illness, demons and the BIBLE

[Ariel82]

That's very sad news. Sorry to hear about your father Ariel. God be with you in this hard times. Mental illness sometimes is genetic but sometimes it is acquired through the bad choices one makes like taking drugs and drinking alcohol. This is what the Bible says that sin always have consequences. To sin is to self destruct because we become more open to the attacks of demons.

Personally I believe everyone is attacked by demons. Even Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert.

However I do NOT believe in blaming demons for every sin humans commit.

I believe those truly possessed by demons are not in control of their physical body and their soul cries out for deliverance, which any Holy Spirit filled believer can give them by clearly proclaiming the gospel and having them accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

However, I believe mental illness is not the same as demon possession, though people often mislabel one of the other.

Mental illness is a physical illness of the mind and like a physical illness of the nervous system or the heart or the blood. I believe someone with mental illness is like someone who is confined to a wheelchair. If that makes any sense.

I do believe that demonic possession can cause physical illness. But not all physical illness is demonic possession. Also not all demon possessed people display physical illnesses.

Satan is called an angel of light and his minions pose as ministers of righteousness.

So it's a complex topic.

 

[samuel23]

I thought I had it all figured out years ago, if you or a loved one is sick, just pray and confess the healing and if your faith is correct it will happen. The problem is that in many cases it does not happen. I will say this, it is possible to be healed so I would encourage folks to pray the prayer of healing. I have prayed to be healed and nothing happened in the sense of a supernatural move of God, I obviously got better so I cannot say that God did nothing. On the other hand, I had a woman and her husband pray for my back and it was supernaturally healed. I was very sick one time and was confessing, with Jesus strips I am healed( which I had done dozens of times without being healed) when I suddenly stopped and admitted to myself that this is not working. At that moment the Lord begin to speak to me and explained that it was not working because I did not believe it. I was somewhat put out by that and replied that I would not be awake at 3:00am repeating scripture if I did not believe it. In a very kind way He explained again that I did believe 95% of it but that last 5% was what was keeping it from happening, he also instantly put in my mind the scripture "if you doubt not". I realized what He was saying and I replied, no one can believe like that(totally convinced), He then said to me, yes you can. Well when He said, yes you can, I believed Him and when I did something hit my bloodstream like fire and I instantly started to get better. At one point I felt incredible strength so much so that I said, I can't be that strong. The Lord then said to me, that is not your strength, that is My strength. Anyway, I woke up the next morning feeling great.

 

[PennEd]

I'm chuckling here. You probably don't remember this, but when you joined this site (which now feels like a long time ago), I was in this very conversation you are now having with JoanieMarie, and you kind of thought I was going off on her.

This is it. This is what happens every time. It circles something like this:
-- Jesus heals everyone.
-- No one else on here believes Jesus heals at all, but the Holy Spirit showed me that Jesus heals everyone who believes.
-- Something is wrong with you, if you do not believe this/that Jesus can heal/that Jesus does heal.
-- Something is wrong with everyone because I know Jesus heals everyone.
-- I'm not special for knowing that Jesus heals everyone. You will get there yourself when you believe right, but...
-- Jesus heals everyone.

There really is no outside that circle. I've seen many try to break the circle long enough that she could answer a question outside that circle, but then we are all downers/nonbelievers/depressing/etc. because we do not know that Jesus heals everyone. We don't think Jesus heals anyone.

And this is right about the time when you and I first met, and you thought I was being tough on her.

I tried to tell you then. Maybe you can understand now. She promotes Joseph Prince. It's a bad gospel. It is preparing for the big game by psyche yourself up enough that it can happen, if you just believe hard enough, and that is the only purpose of it -- to be healed and get what you want out of God. And when honestly faced, it does not work. BUT my fear is that if she keeps preaching this some babe in Christ is going to think it's the gospel, try to get the healing, and when that fails, blames God instead of the false gospel being received.

I hope you can reach her when so many others have tried.

I have to say I am troubled by this preaching that boils down to not having enough faith to allow Jesus to heal. Several people I do love and respect have been pushing this concept.

I don't know what to make of them. Like I said I'm troubled by it.

 

[Ariel82]

Wait....this thread isn't about "healing" and I can see how the discussion could go off course if we continue this line (aka, I am already confused and need to re-read a few statements because I feel like I missed something...did anyone say they believe God will heal all physical illness if folks just have enough faith? Cuz I missed that post.)

 

[samuel23]

Hi Ariel, I was not planning on the story about healing, it just came out, maybe someone needed to hear that God does still heal today.

 

[samuel23]

We were talking about sick people and folks oppressed by Satan...the best way to get out from under something like that is by the hand of God.

 

[Ariel82]

Oh I and most who post here believe God heals today.

The question is who believes that God ALWAYS PHYSICALLY heals people if they have enough faith...,implying that those who aren't healed is because they lack faith?

I don't remember anyone saying they believe that, but I read the thread pretty fast so I might have missed it.

 

[imfinallyfree]

What you are saying I think is a perfect example of why I don't have anything to do with pharmaceutical companies and the drugs that they get rich off of.

It sounds like you are talking about idiosyncrasies EVERYONE has them but some people like myself have them to a greater degree which can make them dysfunctional in todays screwed up society where those that don't strive for perfection or at least the image of perfection are considered strange or awkward at best and criminally minded at worst.

The pharmaceutical companies invent different degrees of "illnesses" so that they can reach a greater range of consumer base,they give different stages of "illness" for natural disorders that way they can sell more drugs to sometimes the same person, I've heard people say something like "I have stage one AND stage two" of a certain illness so that they have to take 2 different medications this is a great business model they use it in sales all of the time for everything not just pharmaceuticals.

I agree that people can have idiosyncrasies that are so extreme that they can be considered a illness but the truth is that with current technology we don't understand the human brain well enough to pinpoint cause or cure for these disorders,the pharmaceutical companies have exploited that ignorance to there benefit.

Im sorry my mind gets sidetracked so I lost focus of the point that I was trying to make if I regain focus I'll get back to you.

 

[Ariel82]

I'm chuckling here. You probably don't remember this, but when you joined this site (which now feels like a long time ago), I was in this very conversation you are now having with JoanieMarie, and you kind of thought I was going off on her.

This is it. This is what happens every time. It circles something like this:
-- Jesus heals everyone.
-- No one else on here believes Jesus heals at all, but the Holy Spirit showed me that Jesus heals everyone who believes.
-- Something is wrong with you, if you do not believe this/that Jesus can heal/that Jesus does heal.
-- Something is wrong with everyone because I know Jesus heals everyone.
-- I'm not special for knowing that Jesus heals everyone. You will get there yourself when you believe right, but...
-- Jesus heals everyone.

There really is no outside that circle. I've seen many try to break the circle long enough that she could answer a question outside that circle, but then we are all downers/nonbelievers/depressing/etc. because we do not know that Jesus heals everyone. We don't think Jesus heals anyone.

And this is right about the time when you and I first met, and you thought I was being tough on her.

I tried to tell you then. Maybe you can understand now. She promotes Joseph Prince. It's a bad gospel. It is preparing for the big game by psyche yourself up enough that it can happen, if you just believe hard enough, and that is the only purpose of it -- to be healed and get what you want out of God. And when honestly faced, it does not work. BUT my fear is that if she keeps preaching this some babe in Christ is going to think it's the gospel, try to get the healing, and when that fails, blames God instead of the false gospel being received.

I hope you can reach her when so many others have tried.

I am confused.i Reread her posts

1. She says that she doesn't know why some are healed and others are not, which implies she doesn't believe everyone is healed.

2. I know for a fact she believes others on here believe that folks are healed today. I also know you have been healed miraculously and posted testimony as such.

3. Well Jesus can and does heal but as someone stated earlier He will always heal people spiritually but physically they may have to wait for our resurrected bodies.

.

Faith in Christ and His love for me as far as I'm concerned answers the hard questions. While I wait for healing or for leading in areas of my life, His love holds me up. It's the secret place of the Most High for me. Many hard questions will come up in our life time. I believe there is a place in God where we go when our human mind is not content and gets attacked. .

In some areas of her life she is still waiting for healing but has faith and trust in God's promises....I don't see anything wrong with that.

She likes Joseph Prince. He is not my cup of tea, but I like and respect Joaniemarie. It's her choice.

If she starts making Joseph Prince an idol, we might have a problem.

I like John McArthur and folks have issues with him. Don't blindly agree with everything he has ever written.

Quoting sermons and messages doesn't mean you agree with everything the person teaches, just that you like that what they say then.

 

[Ariel82]

What you are saying I think is a perfect example of why I don't have anything to do with pharmaceutical companies and the drugs that they get rich off of.

It sounds like you are talking about idiosyncrasies EVERYONE has them but some people like myself have them to a greater degree which can make them dysfunctional in todays screwed up society where those that don't strive for perfection or at least the image of perfection are considered strange or awkward at best and criminally minded at worst.

The pharmaceutical companies invent different degrees of "illnesses" so that they can reach a greater range of consumer base,they give different stages of "illness" for natural disorders that way they can sell more drugs to sometimes the same person, I've heard people say something like "I have stage one AND stage two" of a certain illness so that they have to take 2 different medications this is a great business model they use it in sales all of the time for everything not just pharmaceuticals.

I agree that people can have idiosyncrasies that are so extreme that they can be considered a illness but the truth is that with current technology we don't understand the human brain well enough to pinpoint cause or cure for these disorders,the pharmaceutical companies have exploited that ignorance to there benefit.

Im sorry my mind gets sidetracked so I lost focus of the point that I was trying to make if I regain focus I'll get back to you.

If you cut your hand would you go to the doctor to get stitches? Would you use pain medication?

How about appendicitis?

Medicine isn't the enemy.

 

[imfinallyfree]

Well I can form a focused thought on one thing right now,thinking that God can heal mental illness through prayer or ritual is absolutely nuts.

I respect God I've proved it with my life,I have enough common sense to know that God can't heal mental illness,if He can He chooses not to,which lends credibility to my theory that God isn't the nice guy that everyone thinks that He is.

 

[Ariel82]

God uses doctors and medicine to heal people along with prayer and learning His truths about HIM, themselves and the world.

What do you believe about God and what is the gospel message?

 

[imfinallyfree]

Im not saying that medicine is the enemy,that absolute faith in that medicine is the enemy.

And your reasoning is flawed because it HAS been conclusively proven that going to a doctor to have a cut stitched is a effective cure.

 

[Ariel82]

You should have absolute faith in God alone....not sure what you mean my reasoning is flawed. I asked 3 questions and made the single statement that medicine isn't your enemy, which you agreed with....not sure how that can be flawed.

 

[Chokmahiel]

God uses doctors and medicine to heal people along with prayer and learning His truths about HIM, themselves and the world.

What do you believe about God and what is the gospel message?

What about King Asa? What about the woman with the issue of blood?

2 Chronicles 16:12-13

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the Lord, but to the physicians.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

Luke 8:43

[SUP]43 [/SUP]And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

 

[Ariel82]

pharmaceutical companies don't make up illnesses. Yes some get rich off of selling drugs, but then the generic version comes out and it gets decent again.

idiosyncrasies is not the same thing as illness.

I stated that everyone gets tempted to sin.

Which is not the same as saying everyone is demon possesed or that everyone has a mental illness.

Most are NOT demon possessed. Most people do NOT have a mental illness or are in wheel chairs.

I am going to take some time to pray. Its late and I should have went to sleep hours ago.

 

[Angela53510]

That's very sad news. Sorry to hear about your father Ariel. God be with you in this hard times. Mental illness sometimes is genetic but sometimes it is acquired through the bad choices one makes like taking drugs and drinking alcohol. This is what the Bible says that sin always have consequences. To sin is to self destruct because we become more open to the attacks of demons.

Actually, the opposite is true. People have an undiagnosed mental illness. Their minds are torturing them. They drink a bit, it helps slow down the anxiety, it slows down their pushed speech. The voices are quiet. When things get bad, they go back to the alcohol over and over till they are alcoholics. This is called self medicating! The drugs or alcohol is the solution, not the problem. Over half my bipolar group were alcoholics before they got on psych meds. The psych meds, if they find the right one, bring them back to functioning normally and help them get off the alcohol or drugs.

There is such a myth about drugs or alcohol causing mental illness, when in fact, they are people grasping at the wrong things to control their mental illness.

As far as pharmaceuticals ripping people off, it might be true in the US. I just know that in Canada, my RA medications cost a fraction of what they do in the US. I used to take an infusion called Rituxan, which was a chemo drug, which destroys B cells in the immune system. The cost of that drug for 2 infusions every 6 months, was $4000, with my drug plan paying all but $50. I have friends in the US who pay between $65,000 and $75,000 for the same 2 infusions. I don't know about psych meds. I would assume that older drugs like Thorazine and Lithium would be cheaper, but I have no way to compare US versus Canaduan prices.

Sadly, many can't afford the biologics for autoimmune disorders in the US. I am in an RA group in FB, and all the people from the UK, Australia and Canada are aghast at the prices and lack of availability of these drugs in the US!

 

[Ariel82]

What about King Asa? What about the woman with the issue of blood?

2 Chronicles 16:12-13

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the Lord, but to the physicians.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

Luke 8:43

[SUP]43 [/SUP]And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

What about them?

Did Jesus say to the woman, why did you waste money on physician?

Luke was a physician.

Jesus never says physicians are evil.

Paul tells Timothy to have a little wine to help with his stomach problems.

Leah had weak eyes yet is an ancestor of Jesus.

Physical weakness is not an indicator of spiritual weakness.

You never answered the question: what do you believe about God and what is the gospel message?

 

[Ariel82]

Actually, the opposite is true. People have an undiagnosed mental illness. Their minds are torturing them. They drink a bit, it helps slow down the anxiety, it slows down their pushed speech. The voices are quiet. When things get bad, they go back to the alcohol over and over till they are alcoholics. This is called self medicating! The drugs or alcohol is the solution, not the problem. Over half my bipolar group were alcoholics before they got on psych meds. The psych meds, if they find the right one, bring them back to functioning normally and help them get off the alcohol or drugs.

There is such a myth about drugs or alcohol causing mental illness, when in fact, they are people grasping at the wrong things to control their mental illness.

As far as pharmaceuticals ripping people off, it might be true in the US. I just know that in Canada, my RA medications cost a fraction of what they do in the US. I used to take an infusion called Rituxan, which was a chemo drug, which destroys B cells in the immune system. The cost of that drug for 2 infusions every 6 months, was $4000, with my drug plan paying all but $50. I have friends in the US who pay between $65,000 and $75,000 for the same 2 infusions. I don't know about psych meds. I would assume that older drugs like Thorazine and Lithium would be cheaper, but I have no way to compare US versus Canaduan prices.

Sadly, many can't afford the biologics for autoimmune disorders in the US. I am in an RA group in FB, and all the people from the UK, Australia and Canada are aghast at the prices and lack of availability of these drugs in the US!

Cost is dependent on if the person does or doesn't have insurance when diagnosed.

If they don't have insurance through work, then the prices are ridiculous.

 

[Chokmahiel]

What about them?

Did Jesus say to the woman, why did you waste money on physician?

Luke was a physician.

Jesus never says physicians are evil.

Paul tells Timothy to have a little wine to help with his stomach problems.

Leah had weak eyes yet is an ancestor of Jesus.

Physical weakness is not an indicator of spiritual weakness.

You never answered the question: what do you believe about God and what is the gospel message?

King Asa trusted in the doctors and died. The bleeding woman trusted in the doctors and lost all her money and they never could truly heal her. Only when she had faith in Jesus was she healed. Luke walked away from being a doctor and became an apostle and true healer in Jesus name instead.

I believe the medical establishment does not trust in God nor do they do his work. Western medicine is based in the ways of the greek pagans, hence the symbols of their false gods everywhere. Eastern medicine is based in their ancient witchcrafts and sorceries. I do not trust the medical establishment at all.

Even in the case of mental illness, I don't think a lot of those people are really mentally ill at all, I think they have just been convinced by worthless doctors, worthless men, that they are mentally ill and then pumped full of pills that cure nothing, but sure do get the scam artists and glorified drug dealers a whole lot richer.

The Bible says the sick should pray to God for healing. The Bible says the Christians should be healing the sick. The Bible says the sick should go to the priests of God for healing.