Mental illness, demons and the BIBLE

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Ariel82

Guest
They can still tempt you know..
.
yes, I believe I said that demons tempt everyone in the post you responded to....

.
And believers can abndon there faith for it is written many will abadon there faith in the last days..
I disagree with your understanding of that Bible verse. I don't believe those folks had a saving faith in the True gospel. They left the church, but they never truly KNEW Jesus and they were NOT born again believers sealed with the Holy Spirit.

However we can all still hope and pray all will hear the gospel and accept Jesus as savior.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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I see in this particular post that it appears that some have been healed and naturally they are going to come from the position that God will heal you so why bother with all that other stuff. Then you have folks who have not been healed and they are suffering and do not want to hear about healing when they are not healed and are suffering and their only relief is medicine or treatments. Instead of jumping down each others throats it would be best just to recognize that both positions are legitimate. Of course it is best to be healed by God, but that does no always happen, maybe the problem is our faith, maybe not, I do not know. Even Paul, who prayed for so many who were healed, told his sickly friend Timothy to take some wine as medicine. My advise is to never cease from seeking a healing from God, however if you need medicine and treatments then do what you have to.
 
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Depleted

Guest
Actually, the opposite is true. People have an undiagnosed mental illness. Their minds are torturing them. They drink a bit, it helps slow down the anxiety, it slows down their pushed speech. The voices are quiet. When things get bad, they go back to the alcohol over and over till they are alcoholics. This is called self medicating! The drugs or alcohol is the solution, not the problem. Over half my bipolar group were alcoholics before they got on psych meds. The psych meds, if they find the right one, bring them back to functioning normally and help them get off the alcohol or drugs.

There is such a myth about drugs or alcohol causing mental illness, when in fact, they are people grasping at the wrong things to control their mental illness.

As far as pharmaceuticals ripping people off, it might be true in the US. I just know that in Canada, my RA medications cost a fraction of what they do in the US. I used to take an infusion called Rituxan, which was a chemo drug, which destroys B cells in the immune system. The cost of that drug for 2 infusions every 6 months, was $4000, with my drug plan paying all but $50. I have friends in the US who pay between $65,000 and $75,000 for the same 2 infusions. I don't know about psych meds. I would assume that older drugs like Thorazine and Lithium would be cheaper, but I have no way to compare US versus Canaduan prices.

Sadly, many can't afford the biologics for autoimmune disorders in the US. I am in an RA group in FB, and all the people from the UK, Australia and Canada are aghast at the prices and lack of availability of these drugs in the US!
Is it a ripoff?

Hubby repaired/replaced computers for the largest pharmaceutical company in the world. (British company, but they swallowed up three US companies, so he worked in the R & D buildings for the US east coast division.) Rarely did anyone get into the R & D wing, but with a lot of clearance, he got in to do his work. Many long hallways, and each one had many doors with large rooms. In each room were many PhD/cream-of-the-crop scientists working on cures for all sorts of illnesses. He calculated each group received millions per year to develop that particular cure, and tons and tons of those groups.

Out of all that work, most of the time it doesn't work. Millions and millions to find out "this doesn't work." (When Mom was told the cancer she had would kill her, she took part in a drug trial. Her rationale was, "it might work. And, if it doesn't, that stops all others from having the false hope it might work." It didn't work, and it was already at clinical trial stage.)

And then something works! It works!

Who should pay the money for that working? The government? First, which one? Second, where are they getting that money? Because the US budget doesn't cover the cost of R & D just that one company.

And by the time it is found out it does work, there is copyright protection to pay for, and try to recoup money spent on so much that doesn't work. And, ultimately they want to be paid for all that work.

So, like a copyright for a new book, it's then sold on the market. First comes the hardback book first edition, which is worth more than the paperback version or the digital version. And, like a book, no one knows exactly how well it will sell. Even if something works for you, how much are you willing to pay for it? Same deal. It seems everyone wants the free version.

And once it's discovered that even given to everyone (versus trials of a mere 200 people, give or take), it starts showing whether there are previously undiscovered side effects, and are people willing to have those side effects? Often it's pulled at that point, and there goes the class-action lawsuits. (Pharma has to pay them too.)

Finally, it gets down to generic form. (And most have been pulled long before this point.) In the publishing business, that would be kin to paperback form. Will it sell in the country and out of the country? Well, if it sells out of the country, than that country's government needs to check it for safety standards, which, of course, cost the pharma even more money.

Everyone complains the US is the cuprit. Really? Check it out. How much does a brand new drug cost right out of the manufacturer's plant of the pharmaceutical company in your country? How much do Canadian drugs cost when they're brand new? And who should pay the big bucks for them -- Canadians or Americans? (I vote for Vatican City, but we don't really get to vote on that one. lol)

You know the big news about that epi pen that cost $700 last year? Guess what. Not the whole story. Ends up $700 was for TWO pens, not one. AND, the manufacturer sold it to the drug store for $130 a piece. The drug store charged more of course, (they're in business to make money too), but no one was paying $700. That was the listed price -- top dollar price.

You really have to stop counting on news stories. And you really have to stop counting personal-stories as news.

A pill that works for RA? Priceless! The way you keep getting one after another after another? Hundreds of thousands of Americans tried it before it got into your hand. They paid big bucks to be the guinea pig for you. And, as it turns out, it still only works for a little while.

It's that hard to find a cure! Where else are they getting the money to pay for it?
 
Mar 7, 2016
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yes, I believe I said that demons tempt everyone in the post you responded to....

.

I disagree with your understanding of that Bible verse. I don't believe those folks had a saving faith in the True gospel. They left the church, but they never truly KNEW Jesus and they were NOT born again believers sealed with the Holy Spirit.

However we can all still hope and pray all will hear the gospel and accept Jesus as savior.

1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the

teachings
of demons, 2influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.…


Dont add to this scripture by saying they never had true faith... coz it just says faith...
 
Dec 2, 2016
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Hi Angela: Are you saying that Christians can NEVER be healed? I disagree with WORD OF FAITH, and the way they do things, however I still believe what James said, the prayer of faith will save the sick and the Lord will raise him up. In the bible there are many examples of healings in the church and teaching of healings, I have been healed myself by God more then once. I realize there is a lot of fake in this area and many times people that are prayed for to be healed are not healed...however it is another step that is clear out of the NT to claim that God does not heal people today. I am not sure if you are saying that God never heals today or seldom heals today? I have found real healings to not be all that common, but they do occur.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,958
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Is it a ripoff?

Hubby repaired/replaced computers for the largest pharmaceutical company in the world. (British company, but they swallowed up three US companies, so he worked in the R & D buildings for the US east coast division.) Rarely did anyone get into the R & D wing, but with a lot of clearance, he got in to do his work. Many long hallways, and each one had many doors with large rooms. In each room were many PhD/cream-of-the-crop scientists working on cures for all sorts of illnesses. He calculated each group received millions per year to develop that particular cure, and tons and tons of those groups.

Out of all that work, most of the time it doesn't work. Millions and millions to find out "this doesn't work." (When Mom was told the cancer she had would kill her, she took part in a drug trial. Her rationale was, "it might work. And, if it doesn't, that stops all others from having the false hope it might work." It didn't work, and it was already at clinical trial stage.)

And then something works! It works!

Who should pay the money for that working? The government? First, which one? Second, where are they getting that money? Because the US budget doesn't cover the cost of R & D just that one company.

And by the time it is found out it does work, there is copyright protection to pay for, and try to recoup money spent on so much that doesn't work. And, ultimately they want to be paid for all that work.

So, like a copyright for a new book, it's then sold on the market. First comes the hardback book first edition, which is worth more than the paperback version or the digital version. And, like a book, no one knows exactly how well it will sell. Even if something works for you, how much are you willing to pay for it? Same deal. It seems everyone wants the free version.

And once it's discovered that even given to everyone (versus trials of a mere 200 people, give or take), it starts showing whether there are previously undiscovered side effects, and are people willing to have those side effects? Often it's pulled at that point, and there goes the class-action lawsuits. (Pharma has to pay them too.)

Finally, it gets down to generic form. (And most have been pulled long before this point.) In the publishing business, that would be kin to paperback form. Will it sell in the country and out of the country? Well, if it sells out of the country, than that country's government needs to check it for safety standards, which, of course, cost the pharma even more money.

Everyone complains the US is the cuprit. Really? Check it out. How much does a brand new drug cost right out of the manufacturer's plant of the pharmaceutical company in your country? How much do Canadian drugs cost when they're brand new? And who should pay the big bucks for them -- Canadians or Americans? (I vote for Vatican City, but we don't really get to vote on that one. lol)

You know the big news about that epi pen that cost $700 last year? Guess what. Not the whole story. Ends up $700 was for TWO pens, not one. AND, the manufacturer sold it to the drug store for $130 a piece. The drug store charged more of course, (they're in business to make money too), but no one was paying $700. That was the listed price -- top dollar price.

You really have to stop counting on news stories. And you really have to stop counting personal-stories as news.

A pill that works for RA? Priceless! The way you keep getting one after another after another? Hundreds of thousands of Americans tried it before it got into your hand. They paid big bucks to be the guinea pig for you. And, as it turns out, it still only works for a little while.

It's that hard to find a cure! Where else are they getting the money to pay for it?

You really don't get that international research knows no boundaries. When a new discovery comes out, we test it in Canada at the same time as Americans are testing it. My mom and I have both been in clinical trials. She went in one back in the 1980s to stop cold sores from happening. She said it worked really well, but she had to stop, because she lost all the feeling in her pinky fingers, which they noted was a possible side effects. The good part, was that her cold sores never came back the way she had them, and these days, she doesn't get them at all. I don't think that drug ever made it to market! I tried one RA meds, and they didn't work. End of that.

The other stupid thing the American media feeds people is that the American people are paying for the R & D research for these drugs. Except, in Canada, we are not only on exactly the same drug, but it is made in the US. How can they justify charging people $75,000 when we are getting the same drugs, from the same batch, and paying $4000 for it? That's just pharmaceutical propaganda!

The wonderful "free" enterprise system means the pharmaceuticals charge what the market will bear, even if means many do not have access to the drugs. Our dreadful "socialist" system of universal health care (meaning everyone is covered!) sets limits on profits. Get that? Profits!! That means the drug companies are still making big profits. So don't give me this song and dance I hear all the time about Americans doing the research and paying the price in trials. We also pay the price, its just more based on a reasonable profit, not an absolutely ridiculous profit. Besides the fact that a lot of government money goes into testing and development, at least in Canada.

But what a blessing for those of us who needs these drugs!
 
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sevenseas

Guest
Don't know if Joaniemarie believes that PHYSICAL healing is a part of atonement. She may be looking forward to the final Ressurection?

I just didn't get any red flags from her posts.
well then, Joanie?

what is your take on physcial healing and the atonement

I know what Prince teaches because I checked out his website

so?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,958
113
Hi Angela: Are you saying that Christians can NEVER be healed? I disagree with WORD OF FAITH, and the way they do things, however I still believe what James said, the prayer of faith will save the sick and the Lord will raise him up. In the bible there are many examples of healings in the church and teaching of healings, I have been healed myself by God more then once. I realize there is a lot of fake in this area and many times people that are prayed for to be healed are not healed...however it is another step that is clear out of the NT to claim that God does not heal people today. I am not sure if you are saying that God never heals today or seldom heals today? I have found real healings to not be all that common, but they do occur.
In North America, God seldom heals! I did see a young boy healed of deafness, in an outreach meeting, which was confirmed by his doctor and testing. The irony is this was a family from the third world, and barely spoke English! And the family got saved. So was that a third world healing? And Nnot just them, but grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins, because of this healing! That is the real miracle - salvation in a Hindu family in 20 or more family members!

But, that is not common. Plus, I am not just going to take a testimonial. I want tests and I want the doctor to verify it. Both the initial sickness and the healing. I've heard too many over enthusiasic people say they were healed, when a week later, they were limping along, still not healed.

So yes, when God wants, people get healed. But, it is not part of the atonement, as the Word of Faith teaches, it is the grace and mercy of God and certainly an answer to prayer.

As for me, I've been anointed with oil, prayed for by the elders of the church, and I remain a very sick person, with multiple auto-immune diseases. Plural. I forget asthma, hypothyroidism, Sjogren's Syndrome and of course, the catch-all fibromyalgia! RA is normally my worst. Right now, recovering from this deadly cold, taking lots of prednisone, I just played my flute. I am reminded as to what it is like to play with normal lungs, and fingers. But in a week, it will be back to fighting to play. The devil does discourage me and tell me to give up playing flute. But I enjoy it, and people are really blessed in my church when I play. How could I not continue? They will have to carry me out in a box before I stop playing flute, although I confess I did give up saxaphone. Between being 10 times heavier to hold, it also needs more breath than I have anymore. Sigh!
 
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sevenseas

Guest
from the Joseph Prince site:

Whatever is troubling you, if it has a name, it must bow to the name of Jesus! Cancer must bow to the name of Jesus. Poverty must bow. Shame must bow. The Bible tells us that God has highly exalted Jesus and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee must bow!


how does that work I am wondering?

just say Jesus name and presto cancer is gone?


Beloved, if your child is sick, lay hands on him and say, “In Jesus’ name, cough, stop. Fever, go in Jesus’ name. Health flows in your body in Jesus’ name!” If there is strife and confusion at home, deal with it the same way. I have used the name of Jesus as I prayed for a couple who were quarrelling in a food center. It was amazing. All the strife between them seemed to melt away and they started to talk calmly after that.
so Prince gives some examples. So could I! but not every sickness, demon or situation

you don't see any red flags Ariel?

seems we don't need to wrestle in prayer, or accept no as an answer and of course Christians in third world countries would all be fine if they just say Jesus enough

no red flags?
 
Mar 23, 2017
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The name of the Most High God shall be blessed forever! Jesus still heals today. Jesus heals the sinners and the saints.

James 5:15

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
 
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sevenseas

Guest
and some more from Prince's site:

Healing Promises

(Hardback)


Healing Promises takes you into the heart of our Lord Jesus and shows you, in page after page, His compassion and willingness to heal you. See from the Word how it’s not about what you must do to be healed—it’s all about resting in the grace of our Lord, who has done everything for you to be healed. Be encouraged and start walking in a greater measure of health today!

Everything is about resting? gee. Guess Paul went through all that he did cause he hadn't read the book


Prince believes part of the atonement is physical healing.

Again, I do believe God heals. But not in the manner being suggested on this site

he calls what he preaches the gospel of grace as if somehow gospel and grace are words exclusive to the rest of us?

I'm not buying it
 
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sevenseas

Guest
Beloved, if you’re facing challenges in your body today, I encourage you to meditate on the love and finished work of our Lord Jesus through the healing scriptures below. These Bible verses pertain specifically to your healing. In them, you will see the Lord’s heart to heal you and your loved ones, and how your healing has already been paid for at the cross. When you see also how willingly and compassionately Jesus simply healed all who came to Him, as long as they had a physical need, faith will rise in your heart to know that He wants to, and can do the same for you.


so says Joseph Prince

there follows a big ole list of Bible verses

exactly the same ones copy/pasted by Joanie

so I think it conclusive that I was correct whether or not you saw a red flag Ariel

this is not a case of 'I told you so'

it's a simple case of being a good Berean because I actually do believe we should be one


 
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sevenseas

Guest
1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the

teachings
of demons, 2influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.…


Dont add to this scripture by saying they never had true faith... coz it just says faith...

well you don't need to deceive the unsaved as they are already deceived

it wasn't the unsaved Jesus was talking to when He warned about deception and the unsaved are not being told to be aware of the devil's schemes

so exactly as you say. yes
 
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sevenseas

Guest
Yes, but the touchy part, which many here refuse to acknowlege is, God does NOT heal EVERY ONE today.. Many of us here will die with our illnesses. Anyone can spout "you gotta have more faith". In reality, getting healed has NOTHING to do with how much faith a person has. It has to do with whether God chooses to heal them or not, or leave them unhealed so they can be a better testament to him..


and that is the criminal element here

blame the person who is already wondering if God loves them because they are not healed

people are not being honest here. refusing to discuss that, is not being honest
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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Are you Lauren seven seas? If not you sound like her twin.

Carry on...
 
Mar 21, 2017
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This is all too much.
Just sounds like 'It's all in your head' type of statements in the op, as if a person chooses to think incorrectly or chooses to feel pain in the mind.
Numerous individuals - believers - suffer with mental illness. Some suffer with PTSDs. War Veterans.
Some suffer with depression.

Mental illness is an ILLNESS.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
This is all too much.
Just sounds like 'It's all in your head' type of statements in the op, as if a person chooses to think incorrectly or chooses to feel pain in the mind.
Numerous individuals - believers - suffer with mental illness. Some suffer with PTSDs. War Veterans.
Some suffer with depression.

Mental illness is an ILLNESS.
I have said that mental illness is an illness...so not sure how you got your summary from my words.
 
Mar 23, 2017
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Heed not the accusations of the world and its children. Do not be conformed to their worthless ways. Believe in the good God and set your mind towards the Most High, the Father of Jesus, and he will renew your mind and give you peace.

Romans 12:2

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Isaiah 26:3

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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I agree with most all the posts(specially Angela), I have no idea why some are healed and some are not. In the case of the healing of my back, I did not even ask to be prayed for, two folks asked if they could pray for my back and I was so dumb it took me a week to put together that my back got better after they prayed. My other healing was personal and in that case Jesus spoke to me and told me that I was not being healed because I did not believe as the bible requires, He gave me the scripture "if you doubt not". I did not believe anyone could believe that way(totally convinced) and I told Him so. He then told me that I could believe that way and I believed Him and was healed of the sickness. I don't know whether Jesus gave me the gift of faith so I could believe for a healing or that I could have always believed that way. At any rate when I believed like He told me to something instantly begin to happen, power big time. I remember saying to the Lord, I can't be this strong, and He said to me, that is not your strength that is My strength.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Personally I believe everyone is attacked by demons. Even Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert.

However I do NOT believe in blaming demons for every sin humans commit.

I believe those truly possessed by demons are not in control of their physical body and their soul cries out for deliverance, which any Holy Spirit filled believer can give them by clearly proclaiming the gospel and having them accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

However, I believe mental illness is not the same as demon possession, though people often mislabel one of the other.

Mental illness is a physical illness of the mind and like a physical illness of the nervous system or the heart or the blood. I believe someone with mental illness is like someone who is confined to a wheelchair. If that makes any sense.

I do believe that demonic possession can cause physical illness. But not all physical illness is demonic possession. Also not all demon possessed people display physical illnesses.

Satan is called an angel of light and his minions pose as ministers of righteousness.

So it's a complex topic.
Okay it took me to post 61 to state it, so you might have missed this statement.

Just read back to see if I actually posted it,