Mental illness, demons and the BIBLE

[Chokmahiel]

I have a profound distrust for anyone who can not state the Gospel, does not proclaim that Jesus is Lord and Savior, that He died upon the cross for our sins, rose again on the third day, ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God, our father almighty. Who can not proclaim they are a born again child of God, lead by His Holy Spirit, wash clean by the blood of the Lamb. If they can't state the gospel in their own words, yet try and "teach" scripture and spiritual truths....well if they aren't being lead by the Holy Spirit, then where do those type of people get their "truths?

Answer my question firat, for I have already answer 2 and more of yours.

You have not answered any of my questions, but have avoided them all.

Nevertheless I have answered your questions despite many of them being laced with temptation and slander against both myself and the Holy writers of the Bible, nevertheless I will suffer it and I will answer again though I have no real obligation to answer you besides to show the fact that I have treated you much better than you have treated me.

If they are not being lead by the Holy Sprit then they are not seeking truth from God. Maybe they seek answers from "modern medicine" or from science falsely so-called.

 

[Ariel82]

What is the gospel message?

Is Jesus your Lord and Savior?

Is God's will more important, than your personal beliefs?

Show me how those questions are "laced with temptation or slander against the authors of the Bible".

Yes please show us how much better you are than me.

 

[Chokmahiel]

What is the gospel message?

Is Jesus your Lord and Savior?

Is God's will more important, than your personal beliefs?

John 18:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?

 

[Ariel82]

Why wouldn't someone want to proclaim the gospel and that Jesus is Lord and Savior?

I don't trust people trying to "teach" me scripture who can't say those basic foundational things.

Mainly because how can you tell a nonbeliever to "just love God" if they haven't even accepted Christ and don't have the Holy Spirit indwelling?

I can apologize with the best of them, if I am wrong in my assessment of someone. However, when that person dodges and weaves when asked those straightforward questions, a red flag goes up.

I worry they are wolves in sheep clothing, because sheep Would be able to clearly state the gospel and rejoice in proclaiming Jesus is Lord and savior.

Wolves go after the weak and baby sheep. My brothers and sisters if I have spoken wrongly please point it out. If my words appear to you as slander against the writers of the Bible, please speak out for I would need to re examine my words for God knows my heart and knows that we not my intent. I am open to correction when given by my brethren.

Is he a wolf or is he a sheep? I don't know. All I do know is I do not trust him.

As for the baby sheep and their protection,
I am going to just leave it in God's hands.

Back to the thread topic....

 

[Ariel82]

You should find the 2 studies Here and Here helpful...

I started reading these articles and wanted to post some excerpts..

There is a lot in there I don't agree with.

Do you agree with everything written in those studies and could you answer some questions to why if you do?

 

[Ariel82]

I agree with this statement from the healing study

.

2. We need common sense as well as faith.

Ps.32v9. We must recognise that the Scriptures say that
medicine, like a happy disposition, does good. Prov.17v22. “A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.”

God’s Word informs us that there will even be medicine in God’s eternal
kingdom we read in Ezek.47v12., “Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees
used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because
their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine.”

This thought is repeated in Rev.22v2., “In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which
bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of
the nations.”

“Healing,” is the noun “therapeia,” which primarily means service, care or attention, it is used in
the sense of care of a household in Lk.12v42.; however, “therapeia” is especially used of medical service and
healing, indeed we get our English word “therapy,” from it. Luke uses “therapeia” for healing in Lk.9v11.,
where he states, “But when the multitudes knew it, they followed Him; and He received them and spoke to
them about the kingdom of God, and healed those who had need of healing, “therapeia.”

Seeking God for
healing should be a priority for us as Christians, but we must also recognise the place that God gives to natural
healing and medicine, and remember the wise words of Solomon in Prov.17v22., “A merry heart doeth good
like a medicine.”

Medicines can do good, and save lives, so do not be fanatical over Divine healing, and refuse
medical help.

 

[Chokmahiel]

Why wouldn't someone want to proclaim the gospel and that Jesus is Lord and Savior?

I don't trust people trying to "teach" me scripture who can't say those basic foundational things.

I can apologize with the best of them, if I am wrong in my assessment of someone. However, when that person dodges and weaves when asked those straightforward questions, a red flag goes up.

I worry they are wolves in sheep clothing, because sheep Would be able to clearly state the gospel and rejoice in proclaiming Jesus is Lord and savior.

Wolves go after the weak and baby sheep. My brothers and sisters if I have spoken wrongly please point it out. If my words appear to you as slander against the writers of the Bible, please speak out for I would need to re examine my words for God knows my heart and knows that we not my intent. I am open to correction when given by my brethren.

Is he a wolf or is he a sheep? I don't know. All I do know is I do not trust him.

As for the baby sheep and their protection,
I am going to just leave it in God's hands.

Back to the thread topic....

Very well, here is your dodging, weaving, slandering, tempting, and accusations against me and the Holy writers of the Bible:

Why don't you?

Do you go to the hospital and heal all the sick people there?

If not, why not?

Again can you clearly state the gospel message?

I believe all born again believer should be able to do so.

yep a lie from the pit of hell. I firmly reject that false doctrine too.

. who says that besides one member who is currently playing games on this thread (not you)

. hope some are going to hell..goats and sheep

.

If God punish people, they deserve it. Some people lie and say it's God's punishment when it's not...got a bible verse that says this.....

No chokm has bought into false teachings and since he can't even clearly state the gospel message is just playing games and messing with your head.

His beliefs contradict what most everyone else has posted.

What do you believe about God?

It's not Biblical and they don't believe as you do.

However since you believe this, why don't you live it and do as you suggest others to do?

agree

. requires biblical proof

. disagree.

. Neb never worshipped God.

.
No you start with the gospel and being born again, but you don't want to talk about that.

It starts with God's love, not ours.


So many lies its not worth pointing out since you refuse to answer any of my questions

You can suggest it all you want, but it doesn't make it true.

Some devote Christians have physical and mental illnesses that needs medical treatment.

It is good to both focus on loving God and prayer.

However medicine and doctors aren't evil and you should not be discouraging people from seeking treatment.

Also without the gospel, without believing that Jesus died for your sins and being born again, and being lead by the Holy Spirit, "focusing on loving God" falls short of what is needed.

Is it true or is it not true?

Matthew 4
“If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,

‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”

7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”[c]



****Telling people to refuse medical treatment and medicine, which God has given to heal them is similar to telling them to jump off a cliff and expect God to save them.

Even Satan can quote scriptures, but Jesus tells us not to tempt the Lord, Our God.

Do you deny the importance of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior and being born again and led by the Holy Spirit? ******

Are you implying that doctors are mediums and wizards?

There are present day mediums and witches and wizards, but most are not found in the medical community. I would be so bold to say, most are found in the pulpits of "word of faith" churchs like Benny Hinn.

There is a difference between magic and science.

Magic is about human manipulation of spiritual forces and typically involves demons who pose as ghost of loved ones (mediums) or familiars of wizards (carry out curses, etc).

They have no power to heal but will have fake "healing" where the demon leaves for a time or stops tormenting the person so the "power" of the false minister will be established, but since that false minister never points to Jesus of the True gospel, they never get the holy spirit to protect and guide them.

Instead they get their own set of demons and make themselves more disciples of hell, who then can go out and practice fake signs and wonders to lead people away from God.

Like Satan, they can even quote scripture.

I have a profound distrust for anyone who can not state the Gospel, does not proclaim that Jesus is Lord and Savior, that He died upon the cross for our sins, rose again on the third day, ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God, our father almighty. Who can not proclaim they are a born again child of God, lead by His Holy Spirit, wash clean by the blood of the Lamb. If they can't state the gospel in their own words, yet try and "teach" scripture and spiritual truths....well if they aren't being lead by the Holy Spirit, then where do those type of people get their "truths"

They are the people talked about in the verses above. Modern day wizards who try and control the world around them without acknowledging God's true power.

Thinking they can say magic words to force God to do their will.

I have a profound distrust for anyone who can not state the Gospel, does not proclaim that Jesus is Lord and Savior, that He died upon the cross for our sins, rose again on the third day, ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God, our father almighty. Who can not proclaim they are a born again child of God, lead by His Holy Spirit, wash clean by the blood of the Lamb. If they can't state the gospel in their own words, yet try and "teach" scripture and spiritual truths....well if they aren't being lead by the Holy Spirit, then where do those type of people get their "truths?

Answer my question first, for I have already answer 2 and more of yours.

Yet I have not seen you proclaim the gospel or that Jesus is your Lord and Savior. That God's will should be done even if we would ask the cup to pass from us.

What is the gospel message?

Is Jesus your Lord and Savior?

Is God's will more important, than your personal beliefs?

Show me how those questions are "laced with temptation or slander against the authors of the Bible".

Yes please show us how much better you are than me.

Why wouldn't someone want to proclaim the gospel and that Jesus is Lord and Savior?

I don't trust people trying to "teach" me scripture who can't say those basic foundational things.

Mainly because how can you tell a nonbeliever to "just love God" if they haven't even accepted Christ and don't have the Holy Spirit indwelling?

I can apologize with the best of them, if I am wrong in my assessment of someone. However, when that person dodges and weaves when asked those straightforward questions, a red flag goes up.

I worry they are wolves in sheep clothing, because sheep Would be able to clearly state the gospel and rejoice in proclaiming Jesus is Lord and savior.

Wolves go after the weak and baby sheep. My brothers and sisters if I have spoken wrongly please point it out. If my words appear to you as slander against the writers of the Bible, please speak out for I would need to re examine my words for God knows my heart and knows that we not my intent. I am open to correction when given by my brethren.

Is he a wolf or is he a sheep? I don't know. All I do know is I do not trust him.

As for the baby sheep and their protection,
I am going to just leave it in God's hands.

Back to the thread topic....

And there was also this false accusation and slander which you saw fit to agree with I suppose simply for the sake of malice against me even though I have never claimed such a thing.

sigh

apparently chokmahiel is supposedly an angelic name and a talisman for pagans etc. when I say pagans, I am not referring to just unbelievers. read 'occult'

google it

this is why he answers as he does and why salvation is not addressed

all these weird names some people choose tell an interesting story and the strange posts then actually make sense

Now I am not going to demand an apology because I have all ready forgiven you. However, you could try going forward by actually answering me straightly instead of ducking and dodging just because the Bible conflicts with your personal beliefs. You could try to maybe treat me as I treat you, which so far, you really have not done, which is after all after loving God, the second commandment of Jesus and the Gospel message.

 

[Ariel82]

Then the LORD said to Moses, 'Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.' So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived." -Moses, Numbers 21:8-9

HippocratesA millennium after Moses, and 2,400 years ago, Hippocrates held to a Greek religious belief which recognized the serpent on a staff as a symbol of medicinThen the LORD said to Moses, 'Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.' So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived." -Moses, Numbers 21:8-9

HippocratesA millennium after Moses, and 2,400 years ago, Hippocrates held to a Greek religious belief which recognized the serpent on a staff as a symbol of medicine.

The Hippocratic Oath, a Serpent, and a Staff | American Right To Life

It's not Biblical and they don't believe as you do.

However since you believe this, why don't you live it and do as you suggest others to do?

Mark 16:17-18

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Yeah your answers are as clear as mud.

Don't be a hypocrite and accuse people of dodging and not answering questions.

You have yet to answer with a clear straight answer 3 simple questions.

1. What is the gospel
2. Is Jesus your Lord and Savior
3. Why do you not practice what you preach and go into hospitals and heal the sick?

 

[Chokmahiel]

Yeah your answers are as clear as mud.

Don't be a hypocrite and accuse people of dodging and not answering questions.

You have yet to answer with a clear straight answer 3 simple questions.

1. What is the gospel
2. Is Jesus your Lord and Savior
3. Why do you not practice what you preach and go into hospitals and heal the sick?

Luke 22:63-68

[SUP]63 [/SUP]And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him.
[SUP]64 [/SUP]And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?
[SUP]65 [/SUP]And many other things blasphemously spake they against him.
[SUP]66 [/SUP]And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
[SUP]67 [/SUP]Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:
[SUP]68 [/SUP]And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.

 

[Ariel82]

What you are saying I think is a perfect example of why I don't have anything to do with pharmaceutical companies and the drugs that they get rich off of.

It sounds like you are talking about idiosyncrasies EVERYONE has them but some people like myself have them to a greater degree which can make them dysfunctional in todays screwed up society where those that don't strive for perfection or at least the image of perfection are considered strange or awkward at best and criminally minded at worst.

The pharmaceutical companies invent different degrees of "illnesses" so that they can reach a greater range of consumer base,they give different stages of "illness" for natural disorders that way they can sell more drugs to sometimes the same person, I've heard people say something like "I have stage one AND stage two" of a certain illness so that they have to take 2 different medications this is a great business model they use it in sales all of the time for everything not just pharmaceuticals.

I agree that people can have idiosyncrasies that are so extreme that they can be considered a illness but the truth is that with current technology we don't understand the human brain well enough to pinpoint cause or cure for these disorders,the pharmaceutical companies have exploited that ignorance to there benefit.

Im sorry my mind gets sidetracked so I lost focus of the point that I was trying to make if I regain focus I'll get back to you.

If you cut your hand would you go to the doctor to get stitches? Would you use pain medication?

How about appendicitis?

Medicine isn't the enemy.

God uses doctors and medicine to heal people along with prayer and learning His truths about HIM, themselves and the world.

What do you believe about God and what is the gospel message?

You put yourself in the middle of a conversation I was having with a new Christian. Instead of encouraging him to seek medical help, you posted scripture and did not answer the question in the post.

Still have not answered the question which I asked but selfishly demands that your questions be answered instead.

 

[sevenseas]

You put yourself in the middle of a conversation I was having with a new Christian. Instead of encouraging him to seek medical help, you posted scripture and did not answer the question in the post.

Still have not answered the question which I asked but selfishly demands that your questions be answered instead.

this is a very spiritual conversation

one sided though

not the way to deal with it

 

[Chokmahiel]

You put yourself in the middle of a conversation I was having with a new Christian. Instead of encouraging him to seek medical help, you posted scripture and did not answer the question in the post.

Still have not answered the question which I asked but selfishly demands that your questions be answered instead.

I encouraged to him to seek God.

Should not a people seek to their God?

I have answered all of your questions, you have never answered a single one of mine.

 

[Ariel82]

My phone is messing up....

 

[Ariel82]

I encouraged to him to seek God.

Should not a people seek to their God?

I have answered all of your questions, you have never answered a single one of mine.

.

Quote Originally Posted by Ariel82 View Post
God uses doctors and medicine to heal people along with prayer and learning His truths about HIM, themselves and the world.

What do you believe about God and what is the gospel message?
.

Your response:

.

What about King Asa? What about the woman with the issue of blood?

2 Chronicles 16:12-13

12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the Lord, but to the physicians.
13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

Luke 8:43

43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,.

That doesn't answer WHAT IS THE GOSPEL MESSAGE, but seems to be your standard way of operating.

Do you actually want to talk about the topic or will you continue to play the victim?

:I also encouraged him to seek God through prayer and reading the Bible and learning His truths.

I only engaged with you in hopes of you clarifying your beliefs. But that hope is growing dinner by each post.

 

[Chokmahiel]

.

Your response:

What about King Asa? What about the woman with the issue of blood?

2 Chronicles 16:12-13

12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the Lord, but to the physicians.
13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

Luke 8:43

43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Correct, and if that is what the Bible says; is it then my opinion?

 

[Depleted]

Anyone can make a wiki page.

On any wiki article, at the top, you can see the history of it, and the talk. Sometimes it's worth checking it out, because really? Anyone can make a wiki page, but people in the know are going to fix the blunders. Wiki isn't new anymore.

 

[Ariel82]

King Asa trusted in the doctors and died. The bleeding woman trusted in the doctors and lost all her money and they never could truly heal her. Only when she had faith in Jesus was she healed. Luke walked away from being a doctor and became an apostle and true healer in Jesus name instead.

I believe the medical establishment does not trust in God nor do they do his work. Western medicine is based in the ways of the greek pagans, hence the symbols of their false gods everywhere. Eastern medicine is based in their ancient witchcrafts and sorceries. I do not trust the medical establishment at all.

Even in the case of mental illness, I don't think a lot of those people are really mentally ill at all, I think they have just been convinced by worthless doctors, worthless men, that they are mentally ill and then pumped full of pills that cure nothing, but sure do get the scam artists and glorified drug dealers a whole lot richer.

The Bible says the sick should pray to God for healing. The Bible says the Christians should be healing the sick. The Bible says the sick should go to the priests of God for healing.

This is opinion and some blantantly false.

I bolded the statements I find false, so you don't try to wiggle.

Yes people should pray and worship God. Yes I believe in miracles and have prays and laid hands on people and have even seen people miraclously healed through God's power not mine or those who prayed with me.

That is true, it does happen today.

However the bold is your opinion and what I disagree with. What I find false and likely to lead baby sheep to the slaughter on altar of false doctrine which is man-made opinion loosely based off of their understanding of scripture.

 

[Chokmahiel]

This is opinion and some blantantly false.

I bolded the statements I find false, so you don't try to wiggle.

Yes people should pray and worship God. Yes I believe in miracles and have prays and laid hands on people and have even seen people miraclously healed through God's power not mine or those who prayed with me.

That is true, it does happen today.

However the bold is your opinion and what I disagree with. What I find false and likely to lead baby sheep to the slaughter on altar of false doctrine.

If the medical establishment's doctrines come from people like Hippocrates whom you cited, and those people worshipped no-gods which the Bible says are devils; then whose work does the medical establishment do?

 

[Ariel82]

this is a very spiritual conversation

one sided though

not the way to deal with it

Are you commenting on the current one on public forum or the one I have established in private?

Not sure which one you mean by it being one-sided?

If you have a better way to deal with it, please share.

 

[Ariel82]

If the medical establishment's doctrines come from people like Hippocrates whom you cited, and those people worshipped no-gods which the Bible says are devils; then whose work does the medical establishment do?

Before Jesus came God sent the Law out to all the world. People of all cultures know right and wrong. Even in the old testament there are examples of God talking to gentiles. You will find many moral similarities between some of major religions of the world and the old covenant. However Jesus brought us the NEW covenant of grace.

There are Christian doctors and God has a hand at healing people through medicine.

Perhaps you should read the article about healing someone posted?