Lord we need you! Foundational truths

[sevenseas]

Please this is an attempt to find common ground. Take the poll and explain clearly what the gospel of Christ is.

1. How does someone gain salvation?
2. How does God want to live our lives?

Two simple questions that can show the foundation we build our faith upon.

I don't think you are looking for an actual definition of the word gospel, or 'what is the gospel' so much as how you may believe we should live as a Christian

I say this for this reason:

the word gospel itself actually means one thing and is not instruction on how to live as Christians

'gospel' means simply 'good news'

the gospel is the good news of Jesus Christ and that is the grace of God offered to us through the sacrifice of Jesus

gospel = salvation (which we do not earn and have received we do not become employed in keeping it)

now if you want to ask how we should live as a Christian, that's a whole other question and with a much longer answer

we can offer portions of scripture to better to define 'gospel', but it's true and simple meaning is not complicated

 

[wsblind]

So you are saying Jesus is the gospel?

If you want to define it that way, it's your choice.

However, can you see beyond your own limited definition to what is being spoken about?

Can you answer QUESTION 2 of the OP?

FreeNChrist made a good point. I understand what his point was. I was trying to clarify that point.

And Yes, I am saying that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Gospel. Nothing else is.

Our response to the Gospel was not nailed to the Cross to help the Lord Jesus Christ make payment for our sins.

Question 2~~

Grow in His Grace and knowledge. Study,study,study His mind. Precept upon precept.

Be filled with the Spirit.

Walk in the Spirit.

Do not grieve the Spirit.

Do not quench the Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

are you serious?
ALL the unbelievers I know think they are NOT sinners.
and they won't until they hear the Law pronounce them such.
pretty hard to grasp onto why Jesus came and why He lived a perfect life if people don't know the basics in the Law.

Yes, I am serious.

The only people I know who think they are not sinners are religious people who love to preach law and obedience. And not grace.

So your going to go out and tell people do not do all these sins, Explain to them all these ceremonies, Animal sacrifice, and traditions. And then explain salvation after you think they have a firm grasp on it?


Anyway,

this is what God says about unbelievers.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[SUP][c][/SUP] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[SUP][d][/SUP] unmerciful; [SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

I have heard a few people who cliam they are good people.. I have never heard a non believer claimed they were perfect people..

 

[PennEd]

So while you were a legalistic works salvationist, would you have called yourself as unsaved and destined to hell?

"We can not talk about sanctification in here, because we are to busy trying to separate the works salvationist, from the grace salvationist."

Sounds like you haven't stopped "working".

Perhaps you will stop being so busy wolf hunting and making excuses about what you can't do.

Maybe it's time to follow Jesus instead of just talking about Him.

Jesus said let the dead bury the dead, we are called to speak life into the world.

Perhaps if we spent more time talking about sanctification and living what Jesus teaches instead of chasing wolves, we might display Christ to a dying world.

This is another good point. If the Gospel unto Salvation is confessing that Jesus is Lord, and BELIEF in His resurrection, then those that mistakingly think they need to do good works, may just need more dross to be removed from their heart by the Holy Spirit, and are indeed saved.

Of course there are those who trust in their works and don't believe Really that Jesus is Lord, that are not saved.

Kinda like Judas who never acknowledged Jesus as Lord, yet professed to want to help the poor.

 

[Grace777x70]

So what does that mean in practical terms?

What do you mean by practical terms?

How is this done? It is done by beholding the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - seeing Him for what He has already done. It means relying on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to us because as we see Him we see ourselves in Him and this is how we are transformed. Post #5 has some of these elements in it.

It also means that we humble ourselves and be subject to the Lord which means to agree with what He says about you in Christ. It is about learning how to live by the life of Another in us. Ga. 2:20.

Discovering Christ in us and the reality of what that all means is an eternity long love adventure that will never end. He is that beautiful and full of majesty.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is another good point. If the Gospel unto Salvation is confessing that Jesus is Lord, and BELIEF in His resurrection, then those that mistakingly think they need to do good works, may just need more dross to be removed from their heart by the Holy Spirit, and are indeed saved.

Of course there are those who trust in their works and don't believe Really that Jesus is Lord, that are not saved.

Kinda like Judas who never acknowledged Jesus as Lord, yet professed to want to help the poor.

I would go further to say there are people who claim Jesus is their lord. But their true lord is their works.. And their righteousness. And nto Jesus at all..

 

[Desertsrose]

I would like to clarify something that many of us make a mistake on or don't know, haven't been taught, whatever.

The gospel isn't one scripture taken out of its context. It's all of the teaching of Jesus that's the gospel. If you read in the gospels, it says (paraphrased) Jesus began teaching the gospel of the kingdom. That's the gospel, the gospel of the kingdom. And we find that gospel throughout scripture.

We know what brings us into the kingdom. It's that PART of the gospel of the new covenant in Jesus' blood. That we're saved by grace through faith. But is that all there is to the good news, the gospel? No. Many want to stop right there, but Jesus didn't. It's the beginning point, the entry point into the gospel.

To sum it up I'll use the words of Jesus and what he said. Who of you would challenge the words of Jesus?

Matthew 28:16-20
But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

To become a disciple you believe in Jesus by grace through faith and are baptized and taught to obey all that Jesus commanded us.

This is the part that many want to leave out, the obedience, but it's a part of the gospel message. Jesus is sending the apostles out into the world to preach the good news. It's all good news. We're now in Christ and we now have the ability to live holy consecrated lives through the power of the Holy Spirit because of believing on the one and only true God. Good news indeed! It's all good news!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would like to clarify something that many of us make a mistake on or don't know, haven't been taught, whatever.

The gospel isn't one scripture taken out of its context. It's all of the teaching of Jesus that's the gospel. If you read in the gospels, it says (paraphrased) Jesus began teaching the gospel of the kingdom. That's the gospel, the gospel of the kingdom. And we find that gospel throughout scripture.

We know what brings us into the kingdom. It's that PART of the gospel of the new covenant in Jesus' blood. That we're saved by grace through faith. But is that all there is to the good news, the gospel? No. Many want to stop right there, but Jesus didn't. It's the beginning point, the entry point into the gospel.

To sum it up I'll use the words of Jesus and what he said. Who of you would challenge the words of Jesus?

Matthew 28:16-20
But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

To become a disciple you believe in Jesus by grace through faith and are baptized and taught to obey all that Jesus commanded us.

This is the part that many want to leave out, the obedience, but it's a part of the gospel message. Jesus is sending the apostles out into the world to preach the good news. It's all good news. We're now in Christ and we now have the ability to live holy consecrated lives through the power of the Holy Spirit because of believing on the one and only true God. Good news indeed! It's all good news!!!

And here is where the problem begins.

1. The false accusation that grace teaches just a few verses, and NOT all that Jesus taught.

2. The false accusation that grace teaches that once we are justified, Nothing else matters

3. The false accusation that grace teaches obedience is not necessary, Not a part of life we should strive to do. and we can live our life however we want.


This is the cause of contention. The lies and slander against people. Because they refuse to listen to what anyone has to say. Proven by the fact every time they talk, they slander a group of people by telling false truths or half truths..

I usually have this person on ignore. But since this is a new thread, and the first time this "slander" has really been propagated, I felt for the benefit of anyone actually reading this thread who may not know. should hear what is really going on here.

 

[zone]

Yes, I am serious.

The only people I know who think they are not sinners are religious people who love to preach law and obedience. And not grace.

So your going to go out and tell people do not do all these sins, Explain to them all these ceremonies, Animal sacrifice, and traditions. And then explain salvation after you think they have a firm grasp on it?


Anyway,

this is what God says about unbelievers.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[SUP][c][/SUP] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[SUP][d][/SUP] unmerciful; [SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

I have heard a few people who cliam they are good people.. I have never heard a non believer claimed they were perfect people..

never mind eg.
you completely missed the point.
the gospel message can not be understood without the Law.

 

[truthhurts]

are you serious?
ALL the unbelievers I know think they are NOT sinners.
and they won't until they hear the Law pronounce them such.
pretty hard to grasp onto why Jesus came and why He lived a perfect life if people don't know the basics in the Law.

Is it even possible for you to not turn every thread into a Law Vs. grace derail?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

never mind eg.
you completely missed the point.
the gospel message can not be understood without the Law.

No I got it. I know you are not saying we need to teach the whole law. But Many think we do (in fact it is the basis for most legalistic teachings)

I was just trying to get you to rephrase what you meant..

oh and, I do believe one can be save without knowing the law.

sin and death and sacrifice is actually taught in genesis,,

(there are some people I would never even mention the law too. Because I know their background.. and people teaching them the law has caused damage, not salvation)

In fact I have seen many saved,, Then months after they were saved, they were shown the law. and it all made sense to them.

 

[PennEd]

which is why we have to preach the Law first!
once they see they are lost sinners, then comes the Good News!

I think the idea is let them see what the Gospel (Jesus) has done for US. This is what I WAS, this is now what I am. Especially if they knew you before being born again. I WAS a sinner,... drunkard, fornicator gossiper, fill in the blank, who didn't love people. But I was miserable and lost. NOW, I have a hope and joy because of who Jesus is, and what He has done for me and to me.

They don't need me to tell them they are filthy sinners. Before Jesus sent the Holy Spirit they needed to be told that they were sinners. Unless their conscience is seared, they KNOW they need a Savior. John 16:[FONT=&quot]7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

[/FONT] Now they need to see Him in US, so that they desire Him too.

So let's give them the Gospel and pray they accept it.

 

[zone]

so you guys never bother to explain the OT sacrificial system and what it was for?
amazing

 

[Ariel82]

What do you mean by practical terms?

How is this done? It is done by beholding the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - seeing Him for what He has already done. It means relying on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to us because as we see Him we see ourselves in Him and this is how we are transformed. Post #5 has some of these elements in it.

It also means that we humble ourselves and be subject to the Lord which means to agree with what He says about you in Christ. It is about learning how to live by the life of Another in us. Ga. 2:20.

Discovering Christ in us and the reality of what that all means is an eternity long love adventure that will never end. He is that beautiful and full of majesty.

In terms of action and how you relate to other people or view others. What does that mean?

Or is it just about you and God and how God loves you?

How does one "live by the life of another in us"?

How are do we "see ourselves in Him"? Are you referring to seeing who we will become when Jesus returns and we get our glorified bodies? How we are suppose to be in Chris, able to speak with God and clearly hear His answers?

 

[sevenseas]

so you guys never bother to explain the OT sacrificial system and what it was for?
amazing

I'm studied up on the OT and I agree a person really has to be in order to fully grasp the import of Christ's death

some may view it as obsolete now and so not a part of what we need to be up to speed on, but like it says, ALL scripture is given for a reason, pardon my personal translation on that last part

I don't understand why you are saying it must be preached prior to salvation though

do I misunderstand?

I was a child when I was saved and only heard stories of Jesus but I understand that I needed to accept Him as my Savior

of course as an adult, I got serious about the whole Bible and not just the New Testament

 

[Ariel82]

so you guys never bother to explain the OT sacrificial system and what it was for?
amazing

Too busy wolf hunting, zone...don't have time for that or talking about sanctification either?

Maybe that will change if the importance of knowing both is shown?

I believe people miss half the message of they don't understand what God tells us in the old testament.

It shows us how we can be Pharisees and hypocrites and how we still need God's grace, mercy and forgiveness.

Yes we are saved by the blood of Jesus. Yet folks needs to see How and why God saves us. He saves us from ourselves and in order to love others.

 

[zone]

He's saving us from God's wrath

 

[sevenseas]

ps....I should add I don't know who 'you guys' is referring to?

 

[zone]

ps....I should add I don't know who 'you guys' is referring to?

penned and eg

 

[Grace777x70]

In terms of action and how you relate to other people or view others. What does that mean?

Or is it just about you and God and how God loves you?

How does one "live by the life of another in us"?

How are do we "see ourselves in Him"? Are you referring to seeing who we will become when Jesus returns and we get our glorified bodies? How we are suppose to be in Chris, able to speak with God and clearly hear His answers?

What kind of action?

We love because He first loved us. We need to know the love of Christ in order to be filled up with the fullness of God. Eph. 3:19.

He is the giver of all things - we are the receiver and also the conduit in which His love goes out to others. How that looks as far as "doing something in particular" is up to Him as we are led by the Holy Spirit within us.

When we see the love that God has for us that releases His love to flow out to others which I have written about many times in CC. Everything revolves around the Lord first and we feed off of Him. It's the difference between Mary sitting at the feet of Jesus and Martha "busying" herself. This feeding releases His life to flow in loving others and giving out grace to others.

This is not something we work up - it becomes a natural flow in our lives.

We live by the life of Another in us and we "see ourselves in Christ" by the same means - through beholding Christ as in a mirror just like 2 Cor. 3:17-18 says. We see Christ for who He truly is and what He has done. We do this spiritually within ourselves.

I see Christ with my spirit within me. This is something that is being developed in me as I learn to live by my spirit like Paul says in Gal. 5:25. This is where we are joined as one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17. The renewing of our minds to the truths of being in Christ and Christ being in us is at work here too.

When Christ returns we will get a glorified body but I don't focus on that part but that is the final hope of our redmption. I focus on the new creation in Christ now. Paul says in 2 Cor. 5:17 " If anyone be in Christ , he is a new creation - Behold all things are new". Behold means "to look, to perceive, to see".

It is an interesting study to look up the word "Behold" and see Jesus and Paul using this word.

There is a spiritual principle in what we behold - we become. We can see this spiritual principle at work in when Jacob had the dream from God to put striped rods in the drinking troughs and when the animals came to feed and mate there they had striped offspring.