The imputed righteousness of Christ Impugned

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
W

willybob

Guest
#21
The 20th century master-mason of neural linguistic (Billy Graham) took Luther's heresy and magnified it to yet another level, deceiving 100s of millions, along with the likes of Piper, Washer, and McCarthe etc. etc. Its called the clothed in His righteousness heresy) therefore likening God to a Bozo the clown type character playing peekaboo with sinners all the while pretending not to see their sin...Truly blasphemous, whereas the truth is, the eyes of the Lord go everywhere to and fro seeing the hearts of all men weather they be wicked or righteous..(bible 101) form Genesis to Revelation
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#22
The Ground of Justification and the Imputation of Christ's Active Obedience

"Justification has for its matter and means the righteousness of Jesus Christ, set forth in his vicarious obedience, both in life and death.

Certain modern heretics, who ought to have known better, have denied this, and there were some in older times who, by reason of ignorance, said that there was no such thing as the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. He who denies this, perhaps unconsciously, cuts at the root of the gospel system."

Pyromaniacs: The Ground of Justification and the Imputation of Christ's Active Obedience
 
W

willybob

Guest
#23
I am not under this covenant....sorry...Jesus nailed it to the cross and I am found under the New Covenant....
Its called the New Covenant/Testament, see Hebrews 9 (Bible 101)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#24
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#25
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
 
W

willybob

Guest
#26
Collosians : Jesus nailed the ordinances of the old covenant to the cross ....that being the ceremonial law, Temple rituals, civil laws, dietary laws etc...NOT THE MORAL IMPERATIVE OF THE LAW. (bible 101)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#27
I will rejoice greatly in the LORD, My soul will exult in my God; For He has clothed me with garments of salvation, He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#29
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
That's right; Jesus is our righteous example to follow after, not sin..Work in that context is speaking of religious works not works of faith from an obedient heart (bible 101) You must read and weigh all scripture rightly dividing the truth, rather than a couple snippets here and there (again, bible 101)
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#30
I said it.
Imputed righteousness is not biblical, it is a reformation doctrine invented so that
believers could be sinners and still be regard as righteous and forgiven.

It is often taken to be Abrahams faith being reconned as righteousness.
When I learnt imputed righteousness of Christ is an invented theological term,
it settled for me another issue, that our faith is reconned as righteousness not our walk.

So you can walk righteously but that is not enough, because it is communion with the
Lord that is the life and the truth.

Now through Jesus's righteousness sacrificed on the cross we gain forgiveness of past
sins, washed clean and purified, so that we can walk blamelessly before the King.

The problem is without imputed righteousness surely one sin and we have lost salvation.
But if salvation or righteousness is actually founded on faith, then this is the grace covering
while we resolve our sinful issues through repentance and confession. Now if we do not
resolve them over time, our faith will wane and finally fail and we will fall away.

Now for most this is so bad and terrible, the idea of falling away it is unbelief to even say it
is possible, so you definately must not know Christ.

So this is a different faith structure within the same theology, but a different take on almost
everything, even involving reinterpreting what repentance actually is.

So there you have it, the alternative view point, :)
It looks like you contradicted yourself in the above Peter - but then having read a number of your posts I usually don't have a clue what you are trying to say.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#31
Yeah called grace, mercy and faith....you should try all three.....
Grace is the empowerment of the Spirit (Titus 2:11-14), and Mercy is forgiveness...The New covenant is conditional. Oh; and not by mans' conditions, but rather by the Creator of the covenant, which is conditional upon faith proven by deeds from heart purity.. Not Magical Transfers or Cloaks..Whereas the apostle Peter says ADD to you faith virtue, kindness, godliness,love, patience, temperance etc....(these are the good works of faith THAT WE DO). God doesn't do them for us, lest He circumvent man's freewill, thus leaving him with an almost freewill, which means no freewill at all...Nay, may God forbid such foolishness....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#32
That's right; Jesus is our righteous example to follow after, not sin..Work in that context is speaking of religious works not works of faith from an obedient heart (bible 101) You must read and weigh all scripture rightly dividing the truth, rather than a couple snippets here and there (again, bible 101)
That is not what the verse states...try again and this time don't add your embellishments....<--Satan did this in the garden, he embellished and added a word just like you did

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#33
It looks like you contradicted yourself in the above Peter - but then having read a number of your posts I usually don't have a clue what you are trying to say.

One contradiction after another.....normal for him.....
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#34
How do you read this Peter:

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#35
How do you read this Peter:

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
this puts peter's argument to bed for good.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#36
How do you read this Peter:

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
He views it as a neat trick that does not work.......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#37
this puts peter's argument to bed for good.
Not only to bed, but buried 6 foot under.......yea...he had no argument, neither does jimbob, spongebob or applebob......
 
W

willybob

Guest
#38
again Bible 101- Grace is empowerment of the Spirit to live righteously and godly, and the free gift of Mercy is forgiveness of past sins......However what the institutional church and her Pundits preach is the gospel in reverse, which has them coming in the kingdom, having not removed the guile, thus still in rebellion. Its a real man pleaser and billions can be made off it by fleecing the flock
 
Last edited by a moderator:

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
#39
The imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work. <--can you imagine a believer saying this
There are heretical teachings (false teachings that damn souls to hell) and heterodox (teachings that are erroneous but non-damning).

The above quote falls under the category of heresy.

Now, for any of you who want to play the "Heresy is an over-used phrase!" card know this: That in every epistle of Paul, except for Philemon, he deals with false teachings and heresy. So does Peter. So does Jude. So do the Gospels. So do the Prophets. :)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#40
There are heretical teachings (false teachings that damn souls to hell) and heterodox (teachings that are erroneous but non-damning).

The above quote falls under the category of heresy.

Now, for any of you who want to play the "Heresy is an over-used phrase!" card know this: That in every epistle of Paul, except for Philemon, he deals with false teachings and heresy. So does Peter. So does Jude. So do the Gospels. So do the Prophets. :)
Oh, I fully agree.........