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I understand now. Thanks. The truth is the way the Christian life is taught by some is no different then any other religion of the earth. One of the major differences is faith-righteousness which is Christ's finished work based verses works-righteousness which is what man does to be righteous by his works - by what he does or doesn't do.
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People say that but other religions have faith based righteousness too. Ba'hai, Bhakti Hinduism, even Islam and Judaism teaches of God's grace and love
but they don't teach of the full message of Jesus death on the cross: why Jesus had to die on the cross
They teach of a different Jesus and some Christians do the same.
That is why I say it's importation to teach both justification and sanctification. Otherwise you won't be able to take the difference between what the Bible teaches and other religions.
I used to ask people what makes the gospel Jesus taught better than any other religion?
Most answered like you did G777, but it's not true.
Who you have faith in matters.
Why you have faith also matters.
How you live out you faith is essential.
5:36 am going for a long road trip to the mountains.
6 day camping and hiking trip, I am excited but ask prayers for safety and the boys going with us.
Thanks. Hope everyone has a blessed day.
but they don't teach of the full message of Jesus death on the cross: why Jesus had to die on the cross
They teach of a different Jesus and some Christians do the same.
That is why I say it's importation to teach both justification and sanctification. Otherwise you won't be able to take the difference between what the Bible teaches and other religions.
I used to ask people what makes the gospel Jesus taught better than any other religion?
Most answered like you did G777, but it's not true.
Who you have faith in matters.
Why you have faith also matters.
How you live out you faith is essential.
5:36 am going for a long road trip to the mountains.
6 day camping and hiking trip, I am excited but ask prayers for safety and the boys going with us.
Thanks. Hope everyone has a blessed day.
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A result of this poll means
50% of voters do not follow the gospel, and so are not following Christ yet
claim that name.
The judgement is about 1 issue, do you know God and do you walk in His ways.
Sin just indicates the answer is no.
Some say even repentance is Gods doing.
God carries the responsibility for everything and no individual holds any accountability. Really?
Such foolishness and the words of the enemy.
Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit.
Ezek 18:30-31
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38
50% of voters do not follow the gospel, and so are not following Christ yet
claim that name.
The judgement is about 1 issue, do you know God and do you walk in His ways.
Sin just indicates the answer is no.
Some say even repentance is Gods doing.
God carries the responsibility for everything and no individual holds any accountability. Really?
Such foolishness and the words of the enemy.
Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit.
Ezek 18:30-31
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38
Faith-righteousness which is all centered on Christ's work alone which is received by grace through faith in Him alone is what true Christian belief is. I agree that it is all based on Christ Himself. It is "in Him" that we have wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.
Being Christ-focused is what the Holy Spirit uses to transform us which reflects in our outward behavior and people see the love and grace that our Lord has for them.
Some try to "dictate" the fruit of the spirit without teaching Christians the basics of living by faith in Christ's work and depending on His life in us. He is the Vine - we are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing.
This "dictation" of change without the Holy Spirit transforming us instead tries to get people to change by their own self-effort and human will-power leads to disaster.
If the foundations in Christ are not established we are trying to get people to build a wall or roof with a faulty foundation and when the storms of life come - that person will fall apart and wonder what happened.
Have fun on your camping trip and be safe.
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They are acknowledging that God gives us the power to repent.
Or that the word "gospel" should only refer to Jesus and what He did on the cross.
Every thing else they want to call by a different name because they want to exalt Jesus name and what He has done, first and foremost.
.I understand what they are doing and why.
However, I believe the gospel of salvation Jesus teaches is MORE and not just about the cross.
True we can only be saved by what Jesus did on the cross, but I define the word salvation as the whole process of God working in our lives from the moment He called us out of sin,until we are glorified in His second coming.
Don't inflate the issue of semantics, into judging others salvation.
It's a sin and for some one who claims to believe in righteous and godly living (which I agree we should strive to live)...
There is a very good reason Jesus warns us of judging others because too often our own words can be used to judge and condemn ourselves.
For your edification I will underline your false assumptions that no one has said in this thread...
And the underline is as you judged "
Such foolishness and the words of the enemy", but you are speaking the words, not them.
Your accusations are false and could be labeled slander.
Or that the word "gospel" should only refer to Jesus and what He did on the cross.
Every thing else they want to call by a different name because they want to exalt Jesus name and what He has done, first and foremost.
.I understand what they are doing and why.
However, I believe the gospel of salvation Jesus teaches is MORE and not just about the cross.
True we can only be saved by what Jesus did on the cross, but I define the word salvation as the whole process of God working in our lives from the moment He called us out of sin,until we are glorified in His second coming.
Don't inflate the issue of semantics, into judging others salvation.
It's a sin and for some one who claims to believe in righteous and godly living (which I agree we should strive to live)...
There is a very good reason Jesus warns us of judging others because too often our own words can be used to judge and condemn ourselves.
For your edification I will underline your false assumptions that no one has said in this thread...
And the underline is as you judged "
Such foolishness and the words of the enemy", but you are speaking the words, not them.
Your accusations are false and could be labeled slander.
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Jesus said "Repent and believe the gospel" Mark 1:15
True repentance is believing in what Christ has done on the cross and resurrection and not on what we do or don't do. That is called the Law of Moses and is called works-righteousness. We live in the New Covenant which is faith-righteousness based.
This true repentance which is to change your mind the way you think is to rely on Christ's work alone causes us to behold the glory/goodness of the Lord which is what the Holy Spirit uses to transform us. True repentance does not look to self for doing it's own deeds of righteousness but to Christ alone.
Get this backwards and we create a religion of our own self-works which has the appearance of good but denies the power to effect real transformation in a person's life.
Faith-righteousness based on Christ's work alone is a stumbling block to all works-based righteousness mindsets just as Paul talked about in Romans 10:1-5.
True repentance is believing in what Christ has done on the cross and resurrection and not on what we do or don't do. That is called the Law of Moses and is called works-righteousness. We live in the New Covenant which is faith-righteousness based.
This true repentance which is to change your mind the way you think is to rely on Christ's work alone causes us to behold the glory/goodness of the Lord which is what the Holy Spirit uses to transform us. True repentance does not look to self for doing it's own deeds of righteousness but to Christ alone.
Get this backwards and we create a religion of our own self-works which has the appearance of good but denies the power to effect real transformation in a person's life.
Faith-righteousness based on Christ's work alone is a stumbling block to all works-based righteousness mindsets just as Paul talked about in Romans 10:1-5.
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We also have to repent of the sins we commit and learn to live godly lives. This is called personal sanctification. Making our bodies clean temple for the Holy spirit to work through our lives.
You can think about exercising but that doesn't make you healthy. You can think how godly God can make you, but unless you do what God says such as tearing down spiritual strongholds and doing the good works God commands you to do after salvation. Your faith is dead and empty vessel,
You might label that as a form of "unbelief" but why not learn to speak the language of the one asking the question,instead of insisting they learn to speak yours?
You can think about exercising but that doesn't make you healthy. You can think how godly God can make you, but unless you do what God says such as tearing down spiritual strongholds and doing the good works God commands you to do after salvation. Your faith is dead and empty vessel,
You might label that as a form of "unbelief" but why not learn to speak the language of the one asking the question,instead of insisting they learn to speak yours?
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Ariel - Just because you can converse with the enemy does not make them right
or even seeking God.
You have equated the ability to communicate with spiritual Kingdoms with them
both being of God.
Jesus is plain. A false teachers tree is wicked, and their lack of fruit displays it.
If someone is in complete rebellion against conviction of sin, walking righteously,
the forgiveness of sin because we have turned away from sin and seek to follow
righteousness, they are a false teacher.
You believe you can bring them back. Over a year of sharing, teaching, going
through all the scriptures they are convinced they are walking in the way and all
you are saying is of the enemy.
I am happy at this divide because it is real and important.
Walking in the fulfillment of the cross in love and righteousness from the heart
is everything. Saying if someone has something against you, going and being
reconciled matters, and is a good thing.
or even seeking God.
You have equated the ability to communicate with spiritual Kingdoms with them
both being of God.
Jesus is plain. A false teachers tree is wicked, and their lack of fruit displays it.
If someone is in complete rebellion against conviction of sin, walking righteously,
the forgiveness of sin because we have turned away from sin and seek to follow
righteousness, they are a false teacher.
You believe you can bring them back. Over a year of sharing, teaching, going
through all the scriptures they are convinced they are walking in the way and all
you are saying is of the enemy.
I am happy at this divide because it is real and important.
Walking in the fulfillment of the cross in love and righteousness from the heart
is everything. Saying if someone has something against you, going and being
reconciled matters, and is a good thing.
We do not make ourselves holy. Christ makes us holy. It is in beholding Christ where we receive the grace to walk out what is already in us in Christ in our new creation. We do participate in this with the Spirit as I have said over 50x times.
Of course the Holy Spirit will transform us to repent - change the way we think towards not only relying on Christ's work but to change the way we view sinning as well - from living a homosexual lifestyle to exhibiting malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
Tearing down the stronghold are the ways we think that are contrary to the life of Christ in us and what is true because of Christ's work on the cross.
Who is asking what question? The language is simple - either we trust in Christ or ourselves.
Of course the Holy Spirit will transform us to repent - change the way we think towards not only relying on Christ's work but to change the way we view sinning as well - from living a homosexual lifestyle to exhibiting malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
Tearing down the stronghold are the ways we think that are contrary to the life of Christ in us and what is true because of Christ's work on the cross.
Who is asking what question? The language is simple - either we trust in Christ or ourselves.
Who has said that teaching living godly lives after receiving the Holy Spirit is called "works salvation and the law of Moses?"
I have not seen this done but then again I don't read every thread or post either. I have seen the foolishness of others accusing that's what people are saying that people are against living godly but never actually witnessed it myself.
I have not seen this done but then again I don't read every thread or post either. I have seen the foolishness of others accusing that's what people are saying that people are against living godly but never actually witnessed it myself.
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You do realize when people say that we live by faith-righteousness which is Christ's and not our own righteousness is what people are talking about when they talk about "works salvation" and living by the Law of Moses? Righteousness is the topic.
No one is saying we are not to live godly lives now because we are in Christ and He is in us. In fact I see people say the complete opposite. That's the straw-man agruement others use to justify their own self-works for creating and maintaining their own righteousness. The topic is righteousness. Christ's or ours.
You are right. Walking out the holiness that is in us is a part of the life of Christ in us and that is completely different then righteousness or sometimes the term used is justification. People do confuse the two and try to make one the other.
No one is saying we are not to live godly lives now because we are in Christ and He is in us. In fact I see people say the complete opposite. That's the straw-man agruement others use to justify their own self-works for creating and maintaining their own righteousness. The topic is righteousness. Christ's or ours.
You are right. Walking out the holiness that is in us is a part of the life of Christ in us and that is completely different then righteousness or sometimes the term used is justification. People do confuse the two and try to make one the other.
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I can't do anything Peterjens, but God can.
He can convict the heart that continously slanders others and remove the log in his eye that blinds him.
He can cause a stillness of tongue, so in the silence speak and reveal what is true and what is false.
I have faith in God and I don't speak to go the kingdoms.
I speak only to the people of God's kingdom. I speak to His beloved children and allow God to judge who they are.
He can convict the heart that continously slanders others and remove the log in his eye that blinds him.
He can cause a stillness of tongue, so in the silence speak and reveal what is true and what is false.
I have faith in God and I don't speak to go the kingdoms.
I speak only to the people of God's kingdom. I speak to His beloved children and allow God to judge who they are.
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