My grace is sufficient...

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#61
Hehehe, yes I do, I find it humorous though sad that is conveniently left out (Simon Simon).. it takes on a whole new meaning without that..

To many times folks like to leave things off and they assume the scriptures identity...
True but we know Magenta....:eek:
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#62
I know a current pastor that recently took his first church. He was called 2 years ago, but was sent into that call just a few months ago...as soon as he answered the call, his wife was violently attacked in her body by infection....She walked through it and is now just fine....He lost a very good paying job....his wife now has a better job than he ever had and the church is also going to be paying him a full salary...when he lost his job they lost their house, cars and everything....he never claimed bankruptcy.....they now have better cars, better house, etc....they endured harsh criticism from friends and family and some family separated from them for his answering the call...they also endured many "Christians" belittling them for having no faith when they lost everything, they were also told that they did something to make the enemy attack them so bad...the were lied about and slandered....

So were these well placed attacks of the enemy?

-or-

Were they refinements to prepare him for service as a Pastor by refining and testing his faith that God would heal his wife? Lost their only income and everything they owned so they could learn to trust God to provide everything they need? They came to discern between friend and foe and that to serve God involves sacrificing friends, family and even their name...

They learned God is faithful through the refinement and they are blessed more than they ever have been....

God has to know he can trust you and have the character for him to have faith in the call he has placed on your life...before he sends, he refines....I think this answers both questions...

Likewise, I know some other people called who could not endure the refinements or character persecutions and dropped out of the call....

On the surface it might appear as a unmitigated attack by Satan, but upon closer inspection...it was refinement for the trails he will face as a Pastor...he is a fine young pastor and is ready for the tares and wolves he will face...
That's a good explaination, so a refinement can bring a blessing as well...

One point I'd make is this, God knows who God can trust before they are even born..
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#64
Actually, it could be that the Lord proved His faithfulness in turning that which is evil into good.

All things work together for good for those who love the Lord, who are called according to His purposes.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,097
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#65
In 2 Corinthians 12 the apostle Paul mentioned the condition of his body. He told us that he had a thorn in his flesh and that he enthusiastically asked of the Lord three times that it might depart from him. But the Lord said to him, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness" (v. 9a). Therefore the apostle said, "Most gladly therefore I will rather boast in my weaknesses that the power of Christ might tabernacle over me...for when I am weak, then I am powerful" (vv. 9b-10). What was the thorn in the apostle's flesh? We can bypass this question for now since the Bible does not answer it. But one thing is certain: this thorn in the flesh had the effect of weakening his body. The original word for weakness refers to weakness in the body. The same word is used in Matthew 8:17. Even the Corinthians knew that the apostle's body was weak (2 Cor. 10:10). The apostle himself said that when he was first with them, he was in weakness (1 Cor. 2:3). This does not mean that the apostle was lacking in spiritual power, for both the first and the second Epistles sufficiently reveal that he was full of spiritual power.

Moreover, the word "weakness" is the same word used to describe the physical weakness mentioned above. It is also used in two other passages to indicate the dying condition of the physical body.Therefore, from these verses we can see the apostle Paul's physical condition. His original physical condition was very weak, but did he always stay weak? No. He tells us that the power of Christ rested upon him to make him strong. We should pay attention to the "principle of contrast." The thorn never left Paul, and neither did the weakness that came with the thorn; yet the power of Christ rested upon his weak body and enabled him to meet every need. The power of Christ was in contrast to the weakness of Paul. This power did not take away the thorn or remove the weakness, but it lived in Paul, dealing with everything that his weak body could not handle. This may be likened to a wick that burns with a flame but is not consumed because the lamp is full of oil. The wick is still very weak, but the oil supplies everything that the flame requires of it.Here we see the principle of God's life being our body's strength. His life does not change the weak and mortal nature of our body; rather, it saturates the body with what it cannot provide. Therefore, according to his natural condition, Paul was the weakest, but according to the power he received from Christ, he was the strongest. The strength mentioned in this portion of the Bible specifically refers to the apostle's body.

We know how the apostle Paul worked continually day and night, laboring mentally and physically, doing a work that even three or four strong men could not handle. If his weak body had not received the Holy Spirit's enlivening, how could it have borne so much burden? It is a definite fact that God gave strength to Paul's body.How did God strengthen him? In 2 Corinthians 4 Paul mentioned the problem of his body. He said, "Always bearing about in the body the putting to death of Jesus that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. For we who are alive are always being delivered unto death for Jesus' sake that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh" (vv. 10-11). What attracts our attention the most is that even though verses 10 and 11 are seemingly repetitive, they actually are not. Verse 10 speaks of the life of Jesus being manifested in our body; whereas verse 11 speaks of the life of Jesus being manifested in our mortal flesh. Many people can express the life of Jesus in their body but do not take a step further to do so in their mortal flesh. The distinction between these two is very great. When they are sick, many believers show real obedience and endure much without murmuring or anxiety. They sense the presence of the Lord and manifest His virtues in their countenance, voice, and action. By the Holy Spirit they indeed manifest the life of Jesus in their body. Nevertheless, they do not know that the Lord Jesus can heal their sickness, nor have they heard that His life is also for their humble body.

They never apply their faith to appropriate the Lord's healing of their body in the way that they did for the Lord's cleansing and enlivening of their dead spirit. As a result, they do not manifest the life of Jesus in their "mortal flesh." By the grace of the Lord they endure pain but do not receive healing. They have the experience of verse 10 but not of verse 11.In this verse we see how God heals us and strengthens us by the life of the Lord Jesus. This is very crucial. When our mortal body is strengthened, the nature of this body is not changed to be immortal. The nature of the body stays the same; it is the life which supplies strength to the body that is changed. In the past we depended on our natural life as the source of our strength, but now we depend on the life of Christ for our supply. We can be strengthened to work because we have the resurrection life of Christ for our body's sustenance.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,027
26,752
113
#66
Those were the words of Jesus, not Satan's, or my own...
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#67
Those were the words of Jesus, not Satan's, or my own...
True but with Simon Simon, I don't know why you like leaving little things off but it's your business..

It can help folks who don't know where verses are to place them so others know this.. other whys some may think it was your own words...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,027
26,752
113
#68
He was speaking to Peter, but when He says all of you or
each of you, do you really think it was meant only for Peter?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,027
26,752
113
#69
True but with Simon Simon, I don't know why you like leaving little things off but it's your business..
What little things am I in the habit of leaving off?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#70
Those were the words of Jesus, not Satan's, or my own...
I see his point now Magenta. Sometimes I think others should understand my short posts too, but then my words do get misconstrued. It wasn't personal. Just like looking at his post and thinking it could of been.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,027
26,752
113
#72
I see his point now Magenta. Sometimes I think others should understand my short posts too, but then my words do get misconstrued. It wasn't personal. Just like looking at his post and thinking it could of been.
Do you also think it was meant only for Peter when Jesus specifically said each of you, or all of you?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#74
Do you also think it was meant only for Peter when Jesus specifically said each of you, or all of you?
No, because someone quoted it to me too. I was going through some stuff...still am.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,097
113
#75
The apostle did not mean that having once lived by the Lord, he would never be weak again. Whenever the power of Christ did not rest upon him, he would be as weak as before. We may lose the manifestation of the life of the Lord Jesus in our body by way of carelessness, independence, or sin. Sometimes there may be no shortcomings in ourselves, but simply because we boldly attack the power of darkness, we face its assault on our body. At other times we may suffer constantly for the sake of the Body of Christ because of our deep experience with it. However, a man usually does not experience these last two unless he is very spiritual. One thing is certain: although we may be weak, God's will is that we would never be handicapped, fail in His work, or cause Him to suffer.

The apostle Paul was often weak, but God's work was never weakened because of it. We recognize God's infinite authority, but we must not excuse ourselves of our responsibility.
Here we see that "the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh," is based upon "always being delivered unto death for Jesus' sake." In other words, we must deny our own life completely before the life of Jesus will be manifested in our body. In this we see the relationship between a spiritual, selfless living and a healthy body. God's life is for God. He manifests His life in our body for the sake of accomplishing His own work. He does not have the intention of giving us His life and strength so that we may work and live for ourselves. He does not give His life to our body so that we may waste His strength; nor does He supply strength for the accomplishment of our purpose. If we do not completely live for Him, He has no desire to give us this life.

Here we see the reason that many seek healing and strength but never get them: they think that health and strength are something for them to enjoy. They seek God's life for their body in order that they may be more comfortable, happy, free, and less bound when taking any action. That is why they still remain in weakness and inability. God will never give us His life for our private use in order that we may live by our self-life and cause His purpose to continually suffer loss. God is now waiting for His children to come to their end before He will give them what they are seeking.
What is meant by "the putting to death of Jesus"? It is the life of the Lord Jesus which continually delivers the self unto death. The Lord's whole life was one of self-denial. Until death He never did anything by Himself; rather, He carried out God's work.

The apostle tells us that he allowed the death of Jesus to work in his body so that the life of the Lord Jesus could also be manifest in his mortal flesh. Can we receive such a teaching? God is now waiting for those who are willing to accept the death of the Lord Jesus so that He may live in their body. Who is willing to obey God's will completely? Who will not initiate anything by himself? Who is willing to continually assault the power of darkness for God's sake? Who refuses to use his body for accomplishing anything for himself? This kind of person deserves to have the life of the Lord Jesus manifested in his flesh. If we pay attention to the aspect of death, God will take care of the aspect of life. When we consecrate our weakness to Him, He gives His strength to us.


 
Apr 4, 2017
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#77
That's a good explaination, so a refinement can bring a blessing as well...

One point I'd make is this, God knows who God can trust before they are even born..
How many blessings have been missed because folks were not taught to correctly discern the difference...

God certainly trusted Adam and Eve and well we all know what happened there....

trust is when my daughter says she will be home at curfew....faith is never reminding her of curfew....
 
T

trucker62

Guest
#78

I agree and if others want to think differently - they have their own free will.

Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. John in 1 John 3:18 says "The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."

God is not getting satan to destroy people for Him and then to come afterward to save them. Our minds will not trust someone with this kind of behavior.

The Lord has said that the earth He has given into the hands of men. We have authority on this earth and if we allow something - it will be allowed - "which is on of the reasons that Jesus is called the Son of Man". He now has all authority in earth and in heaven. He is Lord of all.

Psalm 115:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, But the earth He has given to the sons of men.

Remember - "everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of truth."

Here is a great article if anyone is interested in it concerning Job. I found it funny that Job said that he only spoke what he heard about God but in Chapter 42 he said now that he didn't know God as He really was.

Is Satan God’s Sheepdog?

The Book of Job is one of the most amazing stories in the Bible, but we read it wrong two ways. First, we elevate Job into some kind of faith hero. Second, we think the devil is a sheepdog sent by the Lord to do his dirty work. This crazy notion is based on the following passage:

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. (Job 1:8-12)

The traditional interpretation is that the Lord set Job up for disaster by dangling him in front of the devil like a marshal might dangle a convict’s shirt in front of a bloodhound.

“You smell Job, boy? You smell his good works and how much he hates evil?”
“Grrrr. Grrrr.”

“Get him, boy! Go! Rip his life apart!”

What a terrible portrayal of our heavenly Father!

According to the traditional view there is no difference between God and Satan. The devil did the deed, but God was a collaborator. God permitted it. He “allowed” it to happen.

Thankfully, this is one of those times where something is lost in translation. Let’s read those verses again in a word-for-word translation such as Green’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (LITV):

And Jehovah said to Satan, Have you set your heart on My servant Job because there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil? (Job 1:8, LITV)

In other words, “Satan, why are you gunning for Job? Is it because he’s a good guy? Is it because he won’t fall for your evil schemes?”

Do you see? God isn’t setting Job up at all. He’s letting Satan know that he’s onto him. “I’m watching you, Satan.” The Lord is not unaware of the devil’s schemes.

The fact is, Satan was gunning for Job. Not only did Satan want to hurt Job, he wanted the Lord to do it! Look at what Satan says:

Stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face. (Job 1:11)

The audacity of this schemer! How brazen! First the accuser tries to manipulate God: “Job only fears you because you’ve put a hedge about him and blessed him” (verses 9-10). Then he dares the Lord to strike this good man Job! Of course, the Lord isn’t about to fall for Satan’s tricks, yet verse 12 seems to suggest he does.

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power…” (Job 1:12)

At first glance it seems that God has just been conned by the devil into giving him permission to go after Job. Really? And we fall for that? Or worse, we think the Lord would fall for it?! Let’s read that verse in a literal translation:

And Jehovah said to Satan, Behold, all that is his is in your hand! Only, do not lay your hand on him. And Satan went out from the face of Jehovah. (Job 1:12, LITV)

The Lord is not giving Satan permission; he’s stating a fact. Job was already under Satan’s thumb. Why does the Lord say that? Because of this:

We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 John 5:19)

As Tom Tompkins explains in his book, Understanding the Book of Job, God gave control of the earth to man…


The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind. (Psa 115:16)

but in the Garden of Eden man handed control to Satan. So when the Lord says “all that is his is in your hand!” he is stating a painful fact that will ultimately cost Jesus his life.

To sum up, here are four lies that we get from misreading Job 1:

Lie #1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.

The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).

Lie #2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

Lie #3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

Lie #4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

Unquote:

I like to use this website sometimes because it has a place at the bottom where we can ask questions and sometimes I learn from this area too for things to consider. Here is the link if anyone is interested in this subject. Enjoy.


https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/28/is-satan-gods-sheepdog/#prettyPhoto
[/QUOTE

EXCELLENT!!! I have never read that translation. I especially liked:


And Jehovah said to Satan, Have you set your heart on My servant Job because there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil? (Job 1:8, LITV)
 
T

trucker62

Guest
#79
Are you stating God did not give Satan Permission to test Job in anyway?[/QUOTE

Yes I am!
 
Apr 4, 2017
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#80
Are you stating God did not give Satan Permission to test Job in anyway?[/QUOTE

Yes I am!

If God did not give permission why did he put in limits? If what you all say is true and Satan did not need God's permission to attack Job than why did this even make it in the Bible and why did Satan not just kill him outright?