Not By Works

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G

gb9

Senior Member
#3,361
Jan 18, 2011
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#3,361
PeterJens said:
This is an interesting statement. I have read so many people say they cannot judge who is
saved and who is not, yet here is a friend claiming they know, definatively this is the point of
becoming one with God, trusting in Christ.

But trusting in Him for what? Money, success, health, their latest fad or desire that crosses
their mind, that there eternal life plan will come to maturity?

This could be as wacky as Jesus loves me and does not want any harm to come to me, so has
given me the top notch bullet proof plan, with no conditions or expectations on my part, just
I sign on the dotted line. I mean guys, if this was the offer, who would not sign up.

And if you did not sign up, and this means you deserve to burn in eternal torture night and day,
that is a bit harsh. Get you name on the papers or burn, wow, not exactly justice...

And the irony is, if you do sign up, even if you go haywire it is still golden handshake time...
yahooooooo.

This does not fit with the God of the bible, but it does with the god of disney land.
Click to expand...
a clear denial of John 3:10 - 18. peter, have you ever read the Bible all the way through??
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#3,362
Feb 24, 2015
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#3,362
gb9 said:
a clear denial of John 3:10 - 18. peter, have you ever read the Bible all the way through??
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gb9 - you are so religious, you read in so much to one word, trust.

I trust you to miss-understand everything I write, but it does not mean
I trust you for anything else.

I know people who have said the sinners prayer but they do not understand it
or mean what we think the words mean.

So I ask a question about trust, clearly saying examples of what it could mean
for some believers, and you turn this around to say I am denying Jesus's meaning.

Obviously in your church, do not ask what people mean, they mean whatever you
think they mean and shut up.

Now this is what leads to error and assumption.

By the way I have heard preachers say the resurrection does not matter it is
Christs example that matters. They take the moralists viewpoint of salvation.

When you listen to some people the biblical words are the same, but the assumptions
read in are very different. It is eye opening to see how easy this is to do.

And those who do this but want to cover it up, behave just like you have.

Just trust, and you have entered heaven, signed sealed and delivered.
Easy believism 101.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#3,363
Jan 18, 2011
12,321
6,690
113
#3,363
PeterJens said:
gb9 - you are so religious, you read in so much to one word, trust.

I trust you to miss-understand everything I write, but it does not mean
I trust you for anything else.

I know people who have said the sinners prayer but they do not understand it
or mean what we think the words mean.

So I ask a question about trust, clearly saying examples of what it could mean
for some believers, and you turn this around to say I am denying Jesus's meaning.

Obviously in your church, do not ask what people mean, they mean whatever you
think they mean and shut up.

Now this is what leads to error and assumption.

By the way I have heard preachers say the resurrection does not matter it is
Christs example that matters. They take the moralists viewpoint of salvation.

When you listen to some people the biblical words are the same, but the assumptions
read in are very different. It is eye opening to see how easy this is to do.

And those who do this but want to cover it up, behave just like you have.

Just trust, and you have entered heaven, signed sealed and delivered.
Easy believism 101.
Click to expand...
it does no good to ask you what you mean, you do not give straight answers. you tell us how you emotionally feel. which, if does not line up with facts, is useless.

but, i'll humor you. please give your thoughts on John 3 : 10 - 18
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#3,364
Mar 7, 2016
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mailmandan said:
"Faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead UNTIL we produce works (which is like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit). A dead faith does not produce works in order to become a living faith, but BECAUSE it's a living faith; just as a dead tree does not produce fruit in order to become a living tree, but BECAUSE it's a living tree. "Faith without works is dead" also does not mean that we are saved by works.

James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
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Yes but there is a cut of point. If the tree does not bare Good fruit it is cut down..
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
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Mar 7, 2016
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#3,365
A tree that does not bare fruit must be cut down in my book repersents this..

The tree must also produce Fruit because if it Doesnt it must be cut down...cos it will wither away rot and infect thee trees around it..


So what does this mean for the believer... well the believer must also produce Good works by them selfs to and not what the lord is doing through you at times...

The spirit is planting the learning seed... The father tell the spirit to Guide you but then the father tests you without the Guidance next time..:) So thats it you have to procuce Good works by your self to or else you will be bitter in side and mean and nasty...

You will be lazy bone idle and much more... God likes hard workers and he doesnt like lazy rich farmers...
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#3,367
Mar 7, 2016
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#3,367
gb9 said:
it does no good to ask you what you mean, you do not give straight answers. you tell us how you emotionally feel. which, if does not line up with facts, is useless.

but, i'll humor you. please give your thoughts on John 3 : 10 - 18
Click to expand...
sounds like your putting pete on the spot to me.. I think belittleling someone because they share there feelings is a bit mean in my book pal..

Any hows john 3:10-16.. The believer can also turn there back on God and become the verry people this scripture speaks off..
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#3,368
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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#3,368
JIMBO43 said:
A tree that does not bare fruit must be cut down in my book repersents this..

The tree must also produce Fruit because if it Doesnt it must be cut down...cos it will wither away rot and infect thee trees around it..


So what does this mean for the believer... well the believer must also produce Good works by them selfs to and not what the lord is doing through you at times...

The spirit is planting the learning seed... The father tell the spirit to Guide you but then the father tests you without the Guidance next time..:) So thats it you have to procuce Good works by your self to or else you will be bitter in side and mean and nasty...

You will be lazy bone idle and much more... God likes hard workers and he doesnt like lazy rich farmers...
Click to expand...
Abraham suggested otherwise (Rom 4.4-5; Eph 2.8-10)
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#3,370
Mar 7, 2016
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blue_ladybug said:
Sorry to crumble your cookie, lol, but salvation is NOT a DAILY gift. It is a ONE TIME gift.. And if a person rejects the gift of salvation, they reject Jesus also..
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correct it is a once in a life time event that hasnt happend yet..

Ill keep on hoping thanks :) now for some chochlate chip cookies
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#3,371
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#3,371
JIMBO43 said:
sounds like your putting pete on the spot to me.. I think belittleling someone because they share there feelings is a bit mean in my book pal..

Any hows john 3:10-16.. The believer can also turn there back on God and become the verry people this scripture speaks off..
Click to expand...
LOL read it again. It talks about those who believe and those who don't, It says nothing about believers becoming
unbelievers.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#3,372
Feb 24, 2015
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gb9 said:
it does no good to ask you what you mean, you do not give straight answers. you tell us how you emotionally feel. which, if does not line up with facts, is useless.

but, i'll humor you. please give your thoughts on John 3 : 10 - 18
Click to expand...
When we see Jesus crucified for us, for our sins, to set us free, because He loves
us, that tranforms our souls. By believing on Christ and literally seeing what He
has done we are remade, reborn. But to see this you need to know Christ is God,
that He died that we might live, that all our sins put Him there to suffer.
He is testimony to the evil of our sins, and also of the resurrection and power to
overcome and walk in the light, to be done with evil and its deeds and know
righteousness and love. With out this all is lost, with it everything is gained and
remade.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#3,374
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#3,374
PeterJens said:
When we see Jesus crucified for us, for our sins, to set us free, because He loves
us, that tranforms our souls. By believing on Christ and literally seeing what He
has done we are remade, reborn. But to see this you need to know Christ is God,
that He died that we might live, that all our sins put Him there to suffer.
He is testimony to the evil of our sins, and also of the resurrection and power to
overcome and walk in the light, to be done with evil and its deeds and know
righteousness and love. With out this all is lost, with it everything is gained and
remade.
Click to expand...
Have you read John 3.10-18?. What you say suggests you haven't.
 
M

MattTooFor

Guest
#3,375
#3,375
mailmandan said:
"Faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead UNTIL we produce works
Click to expand...
I'm not really arguing such a thing. Although...in a practical sense...the tree out in front of my house had not been producing even a single blossom this spring. We did, indeed, begin to wonder if it had died. Since it was producing no blossoms, we wondered out loud if it was dead. You seem to be saying that is wrong. In practical terms, that makes no sense. The Book of James is making a general observation...that someone whose faith produces no works...should be gravely concerned. (Our tree turned out to be a late bloomer.)

A dead faith does not produce works in order to become a living faith, but BECAUSE it's a living faith
Click to expand...
Wait. Read back your own comment. You just said a "dead faith" is a "living faith". No, a dead faith is a dead faith.

"Faith without works is dead" also does not mean that we are saved by works.
Click to expand...
Again, no one is arguing that. :)
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#3,377
Mar 7, 2016
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valiant said:
LOL read it again. It talks about those who believe and those who don't, It says nothing about believers becoming
unbelievers.
Click to expand...
[h=1]1 John 3:10-18New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]10 [/SUP]This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.




It says if you do not love your Brother you are not baring fruits and you will wither...
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#3,379
Mar 7, 2016
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valiant said:
what they believe, yes, But where does it say they have previously been saved?
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Where does it say in the bible that every time the word saved is mentioned it means salvation ? it doesnt.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#3,380
Mar 22, 2015
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#3,380
JIMBO43 said:
1 John 3:10-18New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

It says if you do not love your Brother you are not baring fruits and you will wither...
Click to expand...
Because they are children of the devil and not of God. READ IT.
 
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