SALVATION BASED ON FAITH

[mailmandan]

Do you not think many people who claim to be Christians and do good works are not Christians at all?

See Matthew 7:22-23.

 

[preacher4truth]

God gets 100% credit for our salvation, yet that does not dismiss man's responsibility to choose to place faith in Christ for salvation. I was not implying that we conjure up faith in the flesh. God draws us (John 6:44) and enables us (John 6:65) yet man has to choose, once drawn and enabled.

Again, salvation is not via choice. Scripture denies this. Maybe you should read them and grasp them, they clearly denounce your teachings.

I was not implying that either, as if salvation is in part based on our works. Eternal life/salvation is a gift that is received through faith, not works (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9).

Actually you did imply it. God does His part, but you must do yours. That's not even remotely biblical. Popular, but not Biblical - it's Pelagianism.

What is with all the misunderstandings and straw man arguments?

You're not understanding how contrary to Scripture your teachings in fact are. To say you did your part is to make salvation partly God, partly you. It cannot then be 100% of God in your system which is based on tradition, not upon proper exegesis of Scripture. I've provided several passages that refute your decisional regeneration. They clearly dismantle that error.

God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Exactly, to usward, and the usward being His elect which follows the context. It is not toward every single person who has ever lived. Do you ever use Scripture properly, or do you just slather it all over where it's not intended? Try understanding context before you dish out a verse on your platter of tradition.

He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already..That's a choice. God does not fatalistically decide who will and won't be saved. (John 3:18).

There is no choice in there, you added it as you add to other Scriptures. The point of the passage? That everyone is already condemned, thus, no need for the advent of Christ to do that, they are already condemned and lost. It is then not referring to those who have "chosen" and those who have not "chosen". You're reading your false system and tradition into the text. There is nothing there about choosing.

That's a choice. God does not fatalistically decide who will and won't be saved.

Actually, God chose each and every one He willed to save. Scripture is replete with this, OT and NT. Maybe you just don't like that.

You can call it fatalism if you wish, Scripture calls it Grace. It is God who chooses, not you, not any person - it is God.

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision (John 6:44,65). Unless the Father draws us in and enables us, we would NEVER believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

....and you continue in your error. You try to give God credit, but in the end you really don't.

We are not robots and God gives us free will to choose. Your argument negates free will, which is a denial of the truth of Scripture.

Oh no, the robot argument, LOL!!!! No one outside of Christ is free in will or any other manner. Note John 8:36. You say the lost are free, Jesus says that's not the case. Wonder who is right?

After reading through some of your other posts, it sounds like you enjoy being attacked.

I love when the roll eyes emoji is used, it shows how callow the is person for doing it!

Good on reading the posts though. Maybe by reading and less typing you'll come to the conclusion that you're in grave error?

You are preaching tradition and johnny come lately false teachings stemming from Sandeman, Finney and others. Have you read them? Have you witnessed their teachings being exposed? Highly doubtful, but entertain me. If not, I can offer you some reading. And by the way, it is not me you or others would be attacking, it's the truth that is being attacked.

 

[Johnny_B]

For by grace ye have been saved THROUGH FAITH, Not of our selves. Not of works.

Ephesians 2:5 "by grace you have been saved", after explaining the beginning of our salvation or from sinner to saint. It happened by grace, after God had mercy on us, this is the context of verses 4-21, focusing in on 4-7. With verse 8 explaining all of it, from sinner to glorified bodies and eternality with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Verse 8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith" Here Paul adds "for" after explaining the full completion of our salvation, from sinners to born again saints to glorified bodies, which God already see us there. He begins the sentence with "for" or because. He's going to bring a fuller explanation of our saving grace and how it gets us to those glorified bodies. The word "through" or "continuing in time toward completion". If "through" meant "by means of" it would then mean that our grace was brought about by our faith. Faith isn't how we receive grace, grace is God's unmerited favor, His gift, if you have to do anything for a gift it is no longer a gift, it's a payment or compensation for the act or deed.

Paul clarifies this with, "Not of ourself, not of works; it's a gift of God, not the result of works, so that no one may boast. Where the misunderstanding comes is with the word "boast" people have changed the meaning of the word 'boast" to mean bragging, I have do, I can, talking with excessive pride and self-satisfaction, which it can mean. But here what is trying to express a possession, of yourself, it's as simple as saying it's your faith over God's grace that saves you. Think about it, you are wanting to take credit for something God has done for you. What is your reaction to someone saying, God chose you, it's because of God's electing love that you are saved. Does that stir up something inside of you that make you have to defined that it's our faith that saved you or that brings God's grace?

This is something I had to deal with because I would think how dumb are these/this people/person that they don't know that it's faith that brings God's grace. All the time saying that God's grace is, God's unmerited favor, but my actions and thoughts did not agree with what was defending.

Not trying to get into a heated discussion or argue over this, I will better explain myself if someone would like, but I will not argue or fight over this.

Our faith is in the work of God. Not how good we are., or what we did, No one goes around boasting of the fact they have faith in another person.. They boast in that person.

What you've explained here is grace not faith, faith is our response to grace, God's unmerited favor. Look at what immediately follows the word, "faith", not of ourself, because God initiated it by causing us to be born again. I Peter 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”

 

[mailmandan]

Again, salvation is not via choice. Scripture denies this. Maybe you should read them and grasp them, they clearly denounce your teachings.

We have a choice to either believe and be saved or not believe and remain lost and I have nothing to denounce. In the New Testament, sinners are commanded over and over to "repent" and "believe" (Luke 13:3; Acts 3:19; Acts 16:31; 1 John 3:23). Every call to repent is a call to choose. The hearer can choose to obey the command. Jesus identified the problem when He told them, "You refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5:40)

Actually you did imply it. God does His part, but you must do yours. That's not even remotely biblical. Popular, but not Biblical - it's Pelagianism.

I already told you that is not what I was implying. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save sinners. No supplements needed. Yet we must choose to receive Christ through faith. We must accept the free gift. That does not mean that Christ's finished work of redemption only saves us in part and we help Him do the rest. That's not what I meant by grace is God's part and faith is ours, yet you seem determined to call me a liar and slap your label on me regardless.

You're not understanding how contrary to Scripture your teachings in fact are. To say you did your part is to make salvation partly God, partly you.

For the third time, that is NOT what I was implying. Open your ears and listen.

It cannot then be 100% of God in your system which is based on tradition, not upon proper exegesis of Scripture. I've provided several passages that refute your decisional regeneration. They clearly dismantle that error.

Salvation is 100% of God. Jesus Christ gets 100% credit for our salvation, yet that does not mean that everyone is automatically saved. ONLY believers will be saved. (John 3:18) Notice "he" who "believes" and "does not believe." God does not believe for us. We choose to believe or not believe. The passages of Scripture that you cited refuted no such thing.

Do you ever use Scripture properly, or do you just slather it all over where it's not intended? Try understanding context before you dish out a verse on your platter of tradition.

You're reading your false system and tradition into the text. There is nothing there about choosing.

Scripture is replete with this, OT and NT. Maybe you just don't like that.

....and you continue in your error. You try to give God credit, but in the end you really don't.

Oh no, the robot argument, LOL!!!!

I love when the roll eyes emoji is used, it shows how callow the is person for doing it!

Maybe by reading and less typing you'll come to the conclusion that you're in grave error?

You are preaching tradition and johnny come lately false teachings stemming from Sandeman, Finney and others. Have you read them? Have you witnessed their teachings being exposed? Highly doubtful, but entertain me. If not, I can offer you some reading. And by the way, it is not me you or others would be attacking, it's the truth that is being attacked.

Your sarcasm and insults will get you nowhere with me. I'm not convinced by your arguments or impressed with your arrogance. I've heard many of these same arguments numerous times before so none of them are anything new or enlightening. If you want to believe that you are a robot who has been fatalistically determined to receive eternal life then be my quest, but you are not fooling me for a second with your erroneous teachings. You'll just have to find someone else to entertain you because I am done wasting my time with you.

 

[John146]

See Matthew 7:22-23.

Exactly, proving my point that good works justifies no one nor proves anything.

 

[mailmandan]

Exactly, proving my point that good works justifies no one nor proves anything.

So James was lying about being justified "shown to be righteous" by works? James 2:14-24

 

[John146]

So James was lying about being justified "shown to be righteous" by works? James 2:14-24

In the tribulation period, the ball game changes. The body of Christ has been taken up and the Jews are to endure to the end with faith and works to be ushered into the Millennium reign of Christ. Notice James brings up Job as an example to follow:

James 5
10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Job suffered through great tribulation and lost everything, yet he endured without turning his back on God. Job's end result was far better than he could have imagined. The 42 chapters of Job is a picture of the 42 months of great tribulation.

 

[mailmandan]

In the tribulation period, the ball game changes. The body of Christ has been taken up and the Jews are to endure to the end with faith and works to be ushered into the Millennium reign of Christ. Notice James brings up Job as an example to follow:

James 5
10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Job suffered through great tribulation and lost everything, yet he endured without turning his back on God. Job's end result was far better than he could have imagined. The 42 chapters of Job is a picture of the 42 months of great tribulation.

Why is it so hard for you to accept the simple fact that if someone claims to have faith but they have no works at all to back up their claim, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not genuine faith.

 

[John146]

Why is it so hard for you to accept the simple fact that if someone claims to have faith but they have no works at all to back up their claim, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not genuine faith.

Having works after salvation has come takes proper discipleship and growing in the word to maturity. Babes in Christ may not have any good works. I have seen people remain babes in Christ for years and years. What about those who hear the gospel and get saved but have no Bible, no church, no discipleship period in their life? Can we really expect these people to live out their faith in word and deed? They very well may sink back into the ways of the world. Does that mean they did not truly trust in the gospel unto salvation? See 1 Corinthians 3.

 

[mailmandan]

Having works after salvation has come takes proper discipleship and growing in the word to maturity. Babes in Christ may not have any good works. I have seen people remain babes in Christ for years and years. What about those who hear the gospel and get saved but have no Bible, no church, no discipleship period in their life? Can we really expect these people to live out their faith in word and deed? They very well may sink back into the ways of the world. Does that mean they did not truly trust in the gospel unto salvation? See 1 Corinthians 3.

It doesn't take several years to finally produce good works. The first thing that I did after receiving Christ through faith was share the gospel with my entire family. Was that not a good work? Just because there was jealously and strife among these babes in Christ at Corinth does not mean that none of them has ever produced a single good work, but they needed to mature. I believe James. If someone "claims" to have faith but they have "no" works (at all, ever) then they have a dead faith and not genuine faith.

All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, you don't understand it.

Does this person think He is God that he KNOWS what people believe?

Dude your arrogance is getting quite out of hand..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm seeing many going back and forth on grace, faith, or both. Got a question for you -- whose faith, grace, or both saves? Yours or God's?

Faith in GODS WORK.

Gods work is complete.

Which means if people think salvation is something that is not complete the moment we are saved.

Then their faith is not in God..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why is it so difficult to understand this simple verse.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Grace is God's unmerited favor.

Salvation is Eternal Security (life).

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Salvation is the gift. God, by his grace, offers salvation to everyone.

We have three choices.

1. We can toss the gift in the trash unopened. Result no salvation.

2. We can open the gift, ooh and aah over it, maybe even try it on for size, then toss it in the corner of the closet and forget about it. Experimental faith. Result no salvation.

3. We can open the gift, and by faith, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Result salvation. Eternal Security.

The real question should be, if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and have Eternal Security, what does he expect of you? I'll assure you that it isn't sit on your backside. He expects you to be a functional part of His Kingdom. If you are not a functional part of His Kingdom, you have opened your gift, and tossed it in the corner of your closet. Retrieve the gift and put it to work for Christ.

Amen, I love the way this is put.. Hope it helps people to understand.

 

[John146]

It doesn't take several years to finally produce good works. The first thing that I did after receiving Christ through faith was share the gospel with my entire family. Was that not a good work? Just because there was jealously and strife among these babes in Christ at Corinth does not mean that none of them has ever produced a single good work, but they needed to mature. I believe James. If someone "claims" to have faith but they have "no" works (at all, ever) then they have a dead faith and not genuine faith.

All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.

Does one good work at sometime in the believer's life justify the man as a true Christian?

I am all for growing and maturing in the faith so fruit will abound. But not every believer is under that same circumstances. The only work that matters for salvation is Christ's work on the cross. The works of the believer matters at the Judgment Seat of Christ where the believer will be judged according to their works whether they be good or bad.

2 Corinthians 5
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Paul says we labor to be accepted by the Lord whether we are present with Him or on this earth. Why? Because our labor will be judged. Paul even goes on to warn about the terror of the Lord at the JSOC. This judgment will not be a pretty sight for the believer whose works are burned and suffer the loss of inheritance.

1 Corinthians 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Why is the man whose work is burned and suffers loss...why is he saved? See verse 11. His foundation is Jesus Christ. Once a man is saved, his foundation is settled, unmovable in Christ. Now it's time to build upon that foundation, laboring for the Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If I clothe and feed the needy this must be proof that I'm saved?

A non believer can cloth and feed the needy..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not necessarily, yet James is focusing on what someone who claims to have faith has failed to do in such situations in vs. 15-16.

Amen, and that someone could be anyone, Nationality does not matter, It may have been written to a jew, But it is applicable to us all.

It is one thing to say you have faith, But if you will not even help a person in need, let alone a brother and sister.. What kind of faith do you really have, James was making a point.. and just used that as an example.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen!!!
The preacher never called out to the people, asking if they wanted to be saved. The people called out to the preacher, what must we do to be saved. With that response to the word you know the Spirit is working in their hearts to repent/beieve/faith.

Here's a video where there is no alter call, but the people respond to the Gospel with a powerful move of the Spirit. It's called EE-TAOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYuRa1iPM8U

And what was the answer? Believe in the name of jesus and you will be saved, You and your household.

What was jesus answer when he was asked what works we could do to do the work of God. "it is the work of God we believe in the one he sent)

What is not the answer,, Do all these works, and maybe just maybe I will think about saving you, But you better keep doing them, because if you fall, I will not save you.. (law)

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Ephesians 2:5 "by grace you have been saved", after explaining the beginning of our salvation or from sinner to saint. It happened by grace, after God had mercy on us, this is the context of verses 4-21, focusing in on 4-7. With verse 8 explaining all of it, from sinner to glorified bodies and eternality with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Verse 8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith" Here Paul adds "for" after explaining the full completion of our salvation, from sinners to born again saints to glorified bodies, which God already see us there. He begins the sentence with "for" or because. He's going to bring a fuller explanation of our saving grace and how it gets us to those glorified bodies. The word "through" or "continuing in time toward completion". If "through" meant "by means of" it would then mean that our grace was brought about by our faith. Faith isn't how we receive grace, grace is God's unmerited favor, His gift, if you have to do anything for a gift it is no longer a gift, it's a payment or compensation for the act or deed.

Paul clarifies this with, "Not of ourself, not of works; it's a gift of God, not the result of works, so that no one may boast. Where the misunderstanding comes is with the word "boast" people have changed the meaning of the word 'boast" to mean bragging, I have do, I can, talking with excessive pride and self-satisfaction, which it can mean. But here what is trying to express a possession, of yourself, it's as simple as saying it's your faith over God's grace that saves you. Think about it, you are wanting to take credit for something God has done for you. What is your reaction to someone saying, God chose you, it's because of God's electing love that you are saved. Does that stir up something inside of you that make you have to defined that it's our faith that saved you or that brings God's grace?

This is something I had to deal with because I would think how dumb are these/this people/person that they don't know that it's faith that brings God's grace. All the time saying that God's grace is, God's unmerited favor, but my actions and thoughts did not agree with what was defending.

Not trying to get into a heated discussion or argue over this, I will better explain myself if someone would like, but I will not argue or fight over this.


What you've explained here is grace not faith, faith is our response to grace, God's unmerited favor. Look at what immediately follows the word, "faith", not of ourself, because God initiated it by causing us to be born again. I Peter 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”

I, for one, would like to hear you explain it more, and I don't argue, fight or get mean. Even when someone gets mean with me, I just keep on having a good conversation. I'm not so easily offended.
I have labored over this point too!
I have concluded that the faith is a small measure implanted - it is a gift or a bestowal.
What I then do with that faith is my response to the grace I've been shown in having my eyes opened. Do I keep tending to it or do I bury it and then have only the same amount when the man returns?
I think the parable of the man giving the talents and then going away and returning applies to this.

 

[John146]

A non believer can cloth and feed the needy..

Exactly, it's no proof of being justified.

 

[John146]

Amen, and that someone could be anyone, Nationality does not matter, It may have been written to a jew, But it is applicable to us all.

It is one thing to say you have faith, But if you will not even help a person in need, let alone a brother and sister.. What kind of faith do you really have, James was making a point.. and just used that as an example.

James is not just making a point, but is giving instruction to the scattered Jews that they are to take care of one another during great tribulation. This work helps justify the Jew for the Millennial reign of Christ.