The imputed righteousness of Christ Impugned
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Matt 12:
[SUP]31 [/SUP]“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Sorry But your wrong, Come out of roman theology,,They have you confused.. I pray..
[SUP]31 [/SUP]“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Sorry But your wrong, Come out of roman theology,,They have you confused.. I pray..
E
lol.. You act as if a child of God will be let go that long,, You mustr deny the chastening of the HS.
Plus,, you just changed you tune, You said no way, Now your saying only after a while.. which is it?
it still contradicts the passage, where jesus said all sin is forgen men but one.. Did Jesus lie?
W
You some how have the whole gospel in REVERSE.....one becomes clean in the baptism of repentance, or as James said "cleanse your hands ye sinners, and purify your hearts ye double minded", in that God's mercy will draw near to them..."ie" 2 Cor. 7-11 the unknown and never spoken verse in the bible..
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I thought this person could not tell who is saved and who is not?
It is demeaning to say to a believer you need to repent and ask God to save you.
If you want people to repent of sin, you have to identify the sin, and if they already trust
God for their salvation, you are talking nonsense.
I suspect as most over enthusiastic evangelists, they want to convert everyone, because
that is their mission, saved or unsaved, because only the unsaved would be talking to them
because why else are they preaching salvation. Trouble is it is normally not very bright new
converts not guys in there 50's who claim to be preachers and should know better.
It is demeaning to say to a believer you need to repent and ask God to save you.
If you want people to repent of sin, you have to identify the sin, and if they already trust
God for their salvation, you are talking nonsense.
I suspect as most over enthusiastic evangelists, they want to convert everyone, because
that is their mission, saved or unsaved, because only the unsaved would be talking to them
because why else are they preaching salvation. Trouble is it is normally not very bright new
converts not guys in there 50's who claim to be preachers and should know better.
I said it.
Imputed righteousness is not biblical, it is a reformation doctrine invented so that
believers could be sinners and still be regard as righteous and forgiven.
It is often taken to be Abrahams faith being reconned as righteousness.
When I learnt imputed righteousness of Christ is an invented theological term,
it settled for me another issue, that our faith is reconned as righteousness not our walk.
So you can walk righteously but that is not enough, because it is communion with the
Lord that is the life and the truth.
Now through Jesus's righteousness sacrificed on the cross we gain forgiveness of past
sins, washed clean and purified, so that we can walk blamelessly before the King.
The problem is without imputed righteousness surely one sin and we have lost salvation.
But if salvation or righteousness is actually founded on faith, then this is the grace covering
while we resolve our sinful issues through repentance and confession. Now if we do not
resolve them over time, our faith will wane and finally fail and we will fall away.
Now for most this is so bad and terrible, the idea of falling away it is unbelief to even say it
is possible, so you definately must not know Christ.
So this is a different faith structure within the same theology, but a different take on almost
everything, even involving reinterpreting what repentance actually is.
So there you have it, the alternative view point,
Imputed righteousness is not biblical, it is a reformation doctrine invented so that
believers could be sinners and still be regard as righteous and forgiven.
It is often taken to be Abrahams faith being reconned as righteousness.
When I learnt imputed righteousness of Christ is an invented theological term,
it settled for me another issue, that our faith is reconned as righteousness not our walk.
So you can walk righteously but that is not enough, because it is communion with the
Lord that is the life and the truth.
Now through Jesus's righteousness sacrificed on the cross we gain forgiveness of past
sins, washed clean and purified, so that we can walk blamelessly before the King.
The problem is without imputed righteousness surely one sin and we have lost salvation.
But if salvation or righteousness is actually founded on faith, then this is the grace covering
while we resolve our sinful issues through repentance and confession. Now if we do not
resolve them over time, our faith will wane and finally fail and we will fall away.
Now for most this is so bad and terrible, the idea of falling away it is unbelief to even say it
is possible, so you definately must not know Christ.
So this is a different faith structure within the same theology, but a different take on almost
everything, even involving reinterpreting what repentance actually is.
So there you have it, the alternative view point,
As usual I don't have a clue what Peter said, I read what he posts but I can't make head nor tall of his statements. Must be a parity error or different baud rates or sumfink.
I don't see how he can deny this.
Rom 4:11 (NASB) and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them.
Rom 4:11 KJV And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
I don't see how he can deny this.
Rom 4:11 (NASB) and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them.
Rom 4:11 KJV And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Righteousness - being without fault or a problem needing correction, holy.
Let me think of a mixing of ideas. A sinful action is performed, approved of, followed through.
1. The action is sinful, does harm, breaks relationships
2. The attitude of the heart follows through
Repentance shows sorrow for the action, and means it will not happen again.
The attitude of the heart is changed so the future will be different.
Now the core sin of man is the rejection of the need we have for love and God.
No matter how good our behaviour, without this we are lost.
Faith is the ultimate statement of the reality of this relationship if held in repentance
over ones sin and faith in the cross for our redemption.
This whole structure works because the saint walks in the ways of Jesus.
Now the words imputed righteousness have come to mean an ordinary sinner, living their
sinful life is regarded as righteous even though the intentions of their heart and life are not
that of following God and His ways.
Those who hold so closely to this language suggest obedience and desire to fulfill the law
in love is a gospel of works salvation, self justification.
Now I call this a con-trick, saying Christ is just superimposed over the sinner and who they
are, assuming nothing will change, ie. buy the ticket, one off, and you are saved, secure.
It is a simple concept to sell and very popular, but also meaningless and flawed.
The thief on the cross who came to faith would have lived a different life, if the situation was not as it
was.
So in summary, we are counted as righteous through faith, walking in obedience.
You cannot separate the two, because they represent the relationship with Christ.
Let me think of a mixing of ideas. A sinful action is performed, approved of, followed through.
1. The action is sinful, does harm, breaks relationships
2. The attitude of the heart follows through
Repentance shows sorrow for the action, and means it will not happen again.
The attitude of the heart is changed so the future will be different.
Now the core sin of man is the rejection of the need we have for love and God.
No matter how good our behaviour, without this we are lost.
Faith is the ultimate statement of the reality of this relationship if held in repentance
over ones sin and faith in the cross for our redemption.
This whole structure works because the saint walks in the ways of Jesus.
Now the words imputed righteousness have come to mean an ordinary sinner, living their
sinful life is regarded as righteous even though the intentions of their heart and life are not
that of following God and His ways.
Those who hold so closely to this language suggest obedience and desire to fulfill the law
in love is a gospel of works salvation, self justification.
Now I call this a con-trick, saying Christ is just superimposed over the sinner and who they
are, assuming nothing will change, ie. buy the ticket, one off, and you are saved, secure.
It is a simple concept to sell and very popular, but also meaningless and flawed.
The thief on the cross who came to faith would have lived a different life, if the situation was not as it
was.
So in summary, we are counted as righteous through faith, walking in obedience.
You cannot separate the two, because they represent the relationship with Christ.
Of course the believer will live a different life but not by our own efforts.
The fruit of the Spirit will, in all its aspects, become increasingly present in the life of each believer .
That in itself reduces our propensity to sin.
As we submit to the transformation whereby our minds are renewed (Ro 12:2) the propensity to sin is further reduced.
As God begins to work in us the good works he has for us (Eph 2:10), the propensity to sin is further reduced.
But, until Jesus calls us home to Himself; the propensity to sin is never gone.
The fruit of the Spirit will, in all its aspects, become increasingly present in the life of each believer .
That in itself reduces our propensity to sin.
As we submit to the transformation whereby our minds are renewed (Ro 12:2) the propensity to sin is further reduced.
As God begins to work in us the good works he has for us (Eph 2:10), the propensity to sin is further reduced.
But, until Jesus calls us home to Himself; the propensity to sin is never gone.
The thread title was a little confusing to me "The imputed righteousness of Christ Impugned."
Romans 4:22-24
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Obviously, "imputed" is action, denoting a verb. Righteousness is given (imputed) because of our faith in the One who is righteous. We cannot give righteousness to God, but we can recognize His righteousness. So to impute, or give something to God as Him being imputed by us seems to be a term that will cause more questions. Maybe this was on purpose. Hard to tell.
It seems that "impugned" is mentioned by exposing a dispute of the truth, validity, or honesty of (a statement or motive); call into question.
Surely there is a conflict to impute righteousness to God when it is not us who give Him righteousness, but God that gives righteousness to us through Christ Jesus.
Anyway, the title of the thread creates confusion. IMO it would have been better to tile the thread ""The imputed righteousness given by Christ Impugned."
Of course, no one who believes would dispute that.
Romans 4:22-24
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Obviously, "imputed" is action, denoting a verb. Righteousness is given (imputed) because of our faith in the One who is righteous. We cannot give righteousness to God, but we can recognize His righteousness. So to impute, or give something to God as Him being imputed by us seems to be a term that will cause more questions. Maybe this was on purpose. Hard to tell.
It seems that "impugned" is mentioned by exposing a dispute of the truth, validity, or honesty of (a statement or motive); call into question.
Surely there is a conflict to impute righteousness to God when it is not us who give Him righteousness, but God that gives righteousness to us through Christ Jesus.
Anyway, the title of the thread creates confusion. IMO it would have been better to tile the thread ""The imputed righteousness given by Christ Impugned."
Of course, no one who believes would dispute that.
There is a wing of the Methodist Church that split away shortly after the the Methodists separated from Curch of England; that teaches what they call covenant theology.
One of their main teachings is that imputed righteousness is incorrect and that our righteousness is based on Judicial pardon. I think Peter may be influenced by this teaching; but he seems to have gone considerably beyond Covenant theology