Not By Works
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There is a simple point about fruit or works.
Those born of God have fruit in their lives. Those that do not do not care anyway.
And if you are not born of God, there is not a lot you can do about it.
In one version if you are concerned about your destiny God is drawing you, if you
have little concern and feel happy where you are, there is not a lot that is going to
change this situation.
Jesus talked about fruit not for believers but for judging false teachers or not.
Jesus also talked about having Gods gifts and being aware of it and doing nothing.
That is not an acceptable situation.
So this whole dispute is going to gain nothing and it just confirms for me the fruit
of those wishing to condemn others and hold the spiritual high ground undermine their
own standing. You do not get wisdom, love and truth from aggressive thorns and thistles.
Those born of God have fruit in their lives. Those that do not do not care anyway.
And if you are not born of God, there is not a lot you can do about it.
In one version if you are concerned about your destiny God is drawing you, if you
have little concern and feel happy where you are, there is not a lot that is going to
change this situation.
Jesus talked about fruit not for believers but for judging false teachers or not.
Jesus also talked about having Gods gifts and being aware of it and doing nothing.
That is not an acceptable situation.
So this whole dispute is going to gain nothing and it just confirms for me the fruit
of those wishing to condemn others and hold the spiritual high ground undermine their
own standing. You do not get wisdom, love and truth from aggressive thorns and thistles.
New International Version 1984 Ephesians 4:21-32 Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold. He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
No sir, I haven't changed my mind because I haven't changed my understanding of the word of God.
Yes, I believe in eternal security... when your life is over in this world.
What I'm having difficulty with is how you stand on the word of God for eternal security scriptures, which is a good thing, but fail to do the same for most of the others.
Yes, there are promises for eternal life, I don't know about eternal security, but there are just as many promises that warn us that we could lose the same, if.... and then the bible lists the conditions.
Unlike you and those who believe as you do, I can't ignore the promises that would call into question your eternal security doctrine.
Just about everything I wrote, I backed up with scripture. Of which you conveniently ignored, even making it sound as though I never wrote anything. Your tactics appear to be crafty, to say the least. I could not agree with someone like that.
Our works of faith are very much like driving a motor vehicle. We press the gas peddle, expecting to move forward, and God provides the power to move forward. We turn the steering wheel in the the direction we want to travel, and God provides the power to steer. We hit the brakes to slow down and eventually stop, and God provides the power to slow down and stop the vehicle. The person is the initiator, and the vehicle provides the power. In like manner, we chose, many times the direction to take while seeking God's wisdom, and He provides the strength, ability, power, and the like, in the situation that we are incapable of taking care of in our own strengths, abilities, and power.
Like I said, with many things that are done in faith, we are the initiators, and God provides the power, because, when I am weak He is strong, and His strength is made perfect in my weakness or inability to fix the situation or condition.
This is not to say that we don't follow God's leading. We do.
And I'm sure my saying that we are the initiators of God's move in our lives through our acts of faith, is offensive to you, because you always wait for God to initiate or do something first and then you follow, as though you're along for the ride. God doesn't always work like that in every situation.
Part of your problem is that you don't know who is doing the initiating. Many people of God blame God for what the devil did, that they sanctioned. You don't even realize that many of your problems were caused by your own words and actions of faith in the negative and in the natural, thereby sanctioning the devil to do his dirty work on you and your loved ones.
So I say this again. Faith works in both the negative and positive sides of various situations. Faith is not only for causing good to come about, it can be toward the negative or for evil as well.
Remember, both DEATH and life is in the power of your tongue. Faith isn't just about doing good.
Yes, I believe in eternal security... when your life is over in this world.
What I'm having difficulty with is how you stand on the word of God for eternal security scriptures, which is a good thing, but fail to do the same for most of the others.
Yes, there are promises for eternal life, I don't know about eternal security, but there are just as many promises that warn us that we could lose the same, if.... and then the bible lists the conditions.
Unlike you and those who believe as you do, I can't ignore the promises that would call into question your eternal security doctrine.
Just about everything I wrote, I backed up with scripture. Of which you conveniently ignored, even making it sound as though I never wrote anything. Your tactics appear to be crafty, to say the least. I could not agree with someone like that.
Our works of faith are very much like driving a motor vehicle. We press the gas peddle, expecting to move forward, and God provides the power to move forward. We turn the steering wheel in the the direction we want to travel, and God provides the power to steer. We hit the brakes to slow down and eventually stop, and God provides the power to slow down and stop the vehicle. The person is the initiator, and the vehicle provides the power. In like manner, we chose, many times the direction to take while seeking God's wisdom, and He provides the strength, ability, power, and the like, in the situation that we are incapable of taking care of in our own strengths, abilities, and power.
Like I said, with many things that are done in faith, we are the initiators, and God provides the power, because, when I am weak He is strong, and His strength is made perfect in my weakness or inability to fix the situation or condition.
This is not to say that we don't follow God's leading. We do.
And I'm sure my saying that we are the initiators of God's move in our lives through our acts of faith, is offensive to you, because you always wait for God to initiate or do something first and then you follow, as though you're along for the ride. God doesn't always work like that in every situation.
Part of your problem is that you don't know who is doing the initiating. Many people of God blame God for what the devil did, that they sanctioned. You don't even realize that many of your problems were caused by your own words and actions of faith in the negative and in the natural, thereby sanctioning the devil to do his dirty work on you and your loved ones.
So I say this again. Faith works in both the negative and positive sides of various situations. Faith is not only for causing good to come about, it can be toward the negative or for evil as well.
Remember, both DEATH and life is in the power of your tongue. Faith isn't just about doing good.
Please enlighten me on what this scripture actually means and tell me is this scripture about rewards in heaven or salvation?
If its salvation, your understanding of this scripture was a great comeback to jimbo.
If its about rewards for those who hold true to the teachings of pauls foundation in the gospel. Then your reply is irrelevant since the scripture is only speaking of rewards and not salvation.
If its salvation, your understanding of this scripture was a great comeback to jimbo.
If its about rewards for those who hold true to the teachings of pauls foundation in the gospel. Then your reply is irrelevant since the scripture is only speaking of rewards and not salvation.
I would probably ban you for a short while if that helps and most definately your doctrin for ever..the one that declares not to hope for salvation..
Ive allready answerd you concerning 1 cor 3 why do you need another. ?
anyhows 1 cor 3 works of wood... ( useless works) A bit like building a house on sand or a bit like palnting a good plant in a field of weeds..
In the field the Good plant may continue Grow it may not..
The living temple Gods seed planted in you... it may continue to grow and it may not you might reject some truths that hurt..
You may also look at 1 cor 3 and see all the rewards for doing Good works..
You also may loook at 1 cor 3 and also believe that paul is a servant like you and i and not someone to follow.
You may also look at 1 cor 3 and see the clear warning for brothers and sisters.. that there is still bitter weeds amongst there temple that need to be gone ..
1 cor 3
3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly?
In your case dc i think you need to become that infant first and lose some meat..
I know you have it in you to be a brother and i do see a brother in you at times and i see courage to its just a shame you dont tutn that courage in to fighting the right fight of praying and encouraging to pray for your daily blessing.. and your salvation..
Now to me if your not praying for Salvation for people then your lost... If your not praying and communing for help then your to much of the done deal and you are like those following paul befor God 1 cor 3....God bless
Ive allready answerd you concerning 1 cor 3 why do you need another. ?
anyhows 1 cor 3 works of wood... ( useless works) A bit like building a house on sand or a bit like palnting a good plant in a field of weeds..
In the field the Good plant may continue Grow it may not..
The living temple Gods seed planted in you... it may continue to grow and it may not you might reject some truths that hurt..
You may also look at 1 cor 3 and see all the rewards for doing Good works..
You also may loook at 1 cor 3 and also believe that paul is a servant like you and i and not someone to follow.
You may also look at 1 cor 3 and see the clear warning for brothers and sisters.. that there is still bitter weeds amongst there temple that need to be gone ..
1 cor 3
3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly?
In your case dc i think you need to become that infant first and lose some meat..
I know you have it in you to be a brother and i do see a brother in you at times and i see courage to its just a shame you dont tutn that courage in to fighting the right fight of praying and encouraging to pray for your daily blessing.. and your salvation..
Now to me if your not praying for Salvation for people then your lost... If your not praying and communing for help then your to much of the done deal and you are like those following paul befor God 1 cor 3....God bless
I would probably ban you for a short while if that helps and most definately your doctrin for ever..the one that declares not to hope for salvation..
.God bless
.God bless
I never said I have no hope....just that I believe the biblical version of hope as opposed to your worldly I just bought a lottery ticket hope.....
You really should study the definitions of the words as BIBLICALLY applied by God and inspired by GOD....the hope of the bible is a CONFIDENT EXPECTATION of something GUARANTEED....not the type of HOPE like I bought a lottery ticket and hope to win the prize....the prize (FREE GIFT) is guaranteed in JESUS and this is what you miss JIM by devaluing the word HOPE!
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I think the point which can be lost is the view of what is sin, what makes us worthy.
Alone, apart from God, We are unworthy,, As God looks into the mercy seat, he sees the law, and all the things which are contrary to us in our daily lives,, And for that and that alone, we would be condemned.
However when Jesus spilt his blood on the mercy seat, when God looks down on our daily lives, He sees the blood of his son, The things against us, contrary to us, and which would condemn us as we stand, are not seen.. The redemption has been applied.. We are seen as innocent.
As paul said in colossians, Christ took the things which were against us, Contrary to us, which condemned us, and nailed them to the cross..
As I think UTAH, or GB9 has been stressing, If we do not realise what real sin is, we will never understand and think we are worthy when we are not.
Alone, apart from God, We are unworthy,, As God looks into the mercy seat, he sees the law, and all the things which are contrary to us in our daily lives,, And for that and that alone, we would be condemned.
However when Jesus spilt his blood on the mercy seat, when God looks down on our daily lives, He sees the blood of his son, The things against us, contrary to us, and which would condemn us as we stand, are not seen.. The redemption has been applied.. We are seen as innocent.
As paul said in colossians, Christ took the things which were against us, Contrary to us, which condemned us, and nailed them to the cross..
As I think UTAH, or GB9 has been stressing, If we do not realise what real sin is, we will never understand and think we are worthy when we are not.