There was a big back and forth in previous years on here about these topics and ultimately what one could've concluded by reading each post was that both parties wanted the same goal but only had different methods to its attainment. Both wanted to walk in victory over sin, but each disagreed on how to achieve that, especially in practicality. They differed on how sanctification occurs and our role in it.
One issue is that people feel that some are excusing sin because of God's grace, and that "so long as you are in Christ, its all good." "Its the flesh, you're still righteous." That is their interpretation of what is being said, but is incorrect. Sin is not being excused because Jesus paid its price on the cross. He died, and resurrected. So no sin is being excused rather its been taken away, Christ being the propitiation.
Back to the point, no one is excusing sin, but they are emphasizing the gift of no condemnation in Christ due to the reconciliation that He has brought to us through His flesh (the veil). Sin cannot separate us from God because Jesus has torn the veil, and that is to say, He has taken care of what alienated us from God in the first place. Sin. To put that wall back up because of sin would be in ignorance to what Jesus, the Son of God, accomplished through His suffering.
Now, both parties wish to walk in holiness. To walk as a righteous people, zealous of good works. Unfortunately there are minute details that they differ on that have major differences in application. One wishes to uphold the Law, lifting it before the eyes of the people and pointing out faults in order for the congregants to do better. The other upholds Christ, and who we are in Him, by the Holy Spirit. Born again, made a new creation who serve in the newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter. Dead to sin and alive unto God.
Both positions seek purity. Yet, the Law is not able to make us righteous in and of itself. If it could do so, we wouldn't need Jesus. We wouldn't need to have righteousness be reckoned to us by faith. We'd simply just do the Law and be justified before God. However, it was simply our school master leading us to Christ, revealing our necessity for a savior. The Savior, Jesus Christ. It is holy, just and good (the Law), yet incapable of transforming us into those very things.
So what is able to purify and sanctify us? God. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. It is the Lord that sanctifies us, and we as willing vessels have submitted ourselves to that process as we are His children whom He chastises and leads in righteousness. Not only that in terms of progressive sanctification, but also in that of our rebirth, being made new creations who love righteousness. We, being dead to sin, are crucified with Christ and just as we partook in His death so have we in His resurrection unto righteousness. No longer are we slaves of sin, but righteousness. As scripture says, "Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but under grace."
Our righteousness is imputed in judicial standing with God, we are justified in Jesus Christ through His resurrection, by the shedding of His blood. We are saved by grace through faith. Our practical holiness, if you will, is brought about through a revelation of who we have been made to be, who we are, and as the Lord sanctifies us through His process of sanctification. Morality doesn't sanctify, God does. It is the Lord that sets us free. It is the Lord that gives us liberty.
Hi Ben, if I may, the section I highlighted in your reply is what I'd like to zero in on because it isn't a completely accurate representation, at least of the side I represent. I think the best way to describe it is to say:
One wishes to uphold what Christ himself said to do, while the other wishes to uphold what Christ himself did.
Now no one can uphold what Christ did. Absolutely no one...because Christ already did it and only Christ could do it, whether any of us wanted him to do it or not. What he did was exclusively his work alone to do and no one can help uphold it (I know you meant the word as "defend", but I'm just using "uphold" to emphasize Christ's work and explain my position). All we can do is believe in it. However.
He specifically told us what WE are to do. We are to do what
he said to do. Again,
he said to do it. Christ
said to do it. The Son of God
said to do it. We didn't decide to do it of our own volition. The only reason why we do it is specifically because Christ
said to do it. If Christ didn't
say to do it we wouldn't do it. (redundant, I know lol)
Now I can share scripture without alteration of what
Christ said to do time and time again (like I did in my post on this thread), and even prove that what
he said to do is in full effect even now in 2017 (like I did), but sadly it's often completely ignored. Not even a word directly addressing what he specifically said to do.
It's agreed that the law itself can not make anyone righteous but points out flaws, that's why we go to Christ and have faith in him first...but then once we are cleansed and in Christ he leads and guides us through true obedience to God's law. He would never lead us away from it. Never.
Sanctification, so that (like Christ said) *our* righteousness exceeds that of mere religious folk. After deliverance comes the training in righteousness. It's this last portion of the process that's not understood, which is the only reason why many of us on my side bring up sinfulness. After we believe, what Christ expects from us as his servants is
an even HIGHER level of adherence to God's law, KNOWING that with God's grace it's now possible for us to achieve it. Mark 10:27. Matthew 19:26. This could not be achieved until Christ was glorified and the Spirit was given.
I particularly don't claim anyone here WANTS to remain in sin because I don't know anyone's heart. But I do claim that a lack of understanding in the process is what KEEPS believers going around in circles many times in the same sin, never actually becoming free from them. But Christ said the truth set's a person free, INDEED. One isn't free from the bondage of a sin simply because God can't see it. One is free from a sin when they're no longer a slave who commits it. They're free of the sin when they sin (it) no more. This is true freedom. This happens with
training in righteousness BEFORE one can receive their glorified body as a reward. Sanctification must finish before glorification. Sanctification starts when we first believe.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
If we were already (manifestly) righteous we wouldn't need training to grow in it, and Paul wouldn't have needed to instruct any of the folks who were still struggling in "the flesh". Our faith is counted (reckoned) as righteousness because that faith is inextricably linked to the work we put into trying to obey God's commands, even when we stumble. It's why Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness, because he
first believed AND THEN
obeyed God. It's belief first, and then obedience.
Belief first... Genesis 15:5-6
5 And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness
And then obedience...Genesis 26:4-5
4 "I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."
We know that God didn't give his law until Moses, but he told Abraham what to do and Abraham was
faithful to do what God said to do. And so even if he made mistakes he was considered righteous. But if Abraham did not even TRY to do what God told him to do after first believing God's promise, Abraham would not still have been called faithful, and if no longer faithful then no longer righteous. His faith would've been dead. A person's actions follow their true belief. This is true for everything in life.
Belief first...
Christ specifically did what only he and no one else could do SO THAT WE COULD FINALLY have
Christ's strength to do what
he told us to do, so we need to believe in what he did for us on the cross
first, in order to receive the gift of
Christ's strength (i.e. grace). < This sentence is the
gospel of Christ in a nutshell.
And then obedience...
Now that
we believe we have Christ's strength, we are expected to obey all of what Christ told us to do to
sin no more in order to enter his kingdom; no longer impossible for us to do. < This sentence is the
gospel of the kingdom in a nutshell.
We have to reconcile with what Christ said in Matthew 5:18-20 and build our house from there. If we don't we're going to stay stuck in the mud.
